Modifying Kaihl Box switches

[jcoffin1981]

So at the moment Box Browns are my favorite switch, hands down, though I still have plenty of others to try.  The weight is perfect.  However, they are a little clicky, (though they are tactile, not clicky) and it's starting to drive me nuts.  I've also been using Burnt Orange. They are heavy but satisfying and no click, and I absolutely love the sound of the switch with good keycaps.   They are however very fatiguing, and I find  I am missing keys because I don't press hard enough to actuate, though they are only 10gf heavier. 

I'm trying to find an answer as to what the difference between the switches is- is it only the spring weight?  I've disassembled and cannot find a difference visually in switch housing or the stems.  I swapped the springs and I cannot reproduce the click when using the lighter spring.  I only have 3 orange switches to try and I would really need a full keyboard to see if the mod had the desired effect.  Also I would hate to put in all that labor to find I just recreated a brown switch.  I find it really hard to believe that the only difference is the spring weight.

_Does anybody know what the difference between the switches is?  I was able to find the manufacturers spec sheet for the Browns only. It has every measurement of the switch parts.

_Also, when purchasing the springs, are they labeled by their peak bottom out force?

I really feel that the BOX switches are superior to Gateron and Cherry offerings.  I'm surprised that they are not more popular.

[Maledicted]

I'm not really a tactile person so I haven't looked very closely at the tactile variants in the box family. This is what the Deskthority wiki says about the Novelkeys variants like Burnt Orange:



According to that, they're pretty much all the same besides spring weighting and the box royals are the only ones with a modification to the mechanism.

Could it be that the burnt oranges have less use/wear and are not yet clicking? It seems to be something that eventually starts with use with the box family of tactiles. There may be something to do with variances in manufacturing between batches as well since some people seem to report having no problems at all with switches going clicky even with heavy use and others do. I'm not sure whether or not anything better/more permanent has been found to fix that than disassembly and lubrication.

I'm not sure about other vendors/manufacturers, but SPRiT lists both the initial weighting and the bottom out force.

Whenever I feel like using tactiles a while I usually reach for Matias or Topre/NIZ. I would use Alps but all of my tactile Alps boards probably need some TLC first.

[Leopard223]

BOX tactiles become clicky after the lube wears off from the leaf knob (?), you haven’t used tHE BOX burnt enough for it to wear off. 
You can lube the knob and the click will go away, but will eventually come back.

[jcoffin1981]

I'm not really a tactile person so I haven't looked very closely at the tactile variants in the box family. This is what the Deskthority wiki says about the Novelkeys variants like Burnt Orange:

(Attachment Link)

According to that, they're pretty much all the same besides spring weighting and the box royals are the only ones with a modification to the mechanism.

Could it be that the burnt oranges have less use/wear and are not yet clicking? It seems to be something that eventually starts with use with the box family of tactiles. There may be something to do with variances in manufacturing between batches as well since some people seem to report having no problems at all with switches going clicky even with heavy use and others do. I'm not sure whether or not anything better/more permanent has been found to fix that than disassembly and lubrication.

I'm not sure about other vendors/manufacturers, but SPRiT lists both the initial weighting and the bottom out force.

Whenever I feel like using tactiles a while I usually reach for Matias or Topre/NIZ. I would use Alps but all of my tactile Alps boards probably need some TLC first.

Interesting, so they are in fact the same.  I have an Anne Pro II which I purchased with Box Browns.  I have a Leopold FC980-M  which I installed Box Browns on.  These were all clicking from the very beginning.  It's not just the high pitch, audible click but there is a sharp, tactile click.  Maybe it has gotten worse, but I can't say for sure.  I noticed it immediately.  My other board is a Leopold FC660-M with Box Orange installed.   These were all purchased/built around July-August of 2020.    The Anne Pro is my daily driver at home and the other two I have at work and they get heavy use daily. If lube was going to wear away it would have done so by now.

Maybe it just doesn't click with the heavier spring weight. I suppose it could also just be variance of switches produced at different times.  In my experience there is HUGE variance between switches of different lots, I mean night and day.  So I can experiment with different weights and lube and see if it affects the clicking.  Thanks Maledicted, you finally gave me the answer I was looking for.  It would be stupid to pair a Brown spring with a Burnt Orange switch- I would just be recreating Box Brown.   

[Faceman76]

Heavier springs has a significant effect on the sound of BOX Navy switches, too.  The faster reset is a factor as well.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[HungerMechanic]

Why not just accept the click in BOX Browns? It's a noisy switch anyway, and the click is probably less than BOX White.

[Leopard223]

Why not just accept the click in BOX Browns? It's a noisy switch anyway, and the click is probably less than BOX White.

It's not that noisy but it feels cheap and ratty, as if it's broken at least IMO, we're in an era that companies basically mastered the making of MX style switches, low quality aspects such as loose and weak housing (bending when removing switches), leaf ping ans spring crunch should not be present in switches especially if they're "boutique".

[jcoffin1981]

Why not just accept the click in BOX Browns? It's a noisy switch anyway, and the click is probably less than BOX White.

It's not that noisy but it feels cheap and ratty, as if it's broken at least IMO, we're in an era that companies basically mastered the making of MX style switches, low quality aspects such as loose and weak housing (bending when removing switches), leaf ping ans spring crunch should not be present in switches especially if they're "boutique".

I love the weight and the tactility, but the click is high-pitched and plasticy. All my Box Brown boards have done this after assembly or right out of the box, it didn't develop over time.  The Burnt Orange have no hint of a click even after extended use.  Maybe it is just this particular lot of switiches.  If I can lighten up the switch without developing a clicking it would be my ideal switch.

Box switches have very low wobble, however I have noticed that the Burnt Orange have even less.  Maybe the heavier spring allows less wobble?  I'm not sure, but it's a great feeling typing on a sturdy switch.

[Leopard223]

Why not just accept the click in BOX Browns? It's a noisy switch anyway, and the click is probably less than BOX White.

It's not that noisy but it feels cheap and ratty, as if it's broken at least IMO, we're in an era that companies basically mastered the making of MX style switches, low quality aspects such as loose and weak housing (bending when removing switches), leaf ping ans spring crunch should not be present in switches especially if they're "boutique".

I love the weight and the tactility, but the click is high-pitched and plasticy. All my Box Brown boards have done this after assembly or right out of the box, it didn't develop over time.  The Burnt Orange have no hint of a click even after extended use.  Maybe it is just this particular lot of switiches.  If I can lighten up the switch without developing a clicking it would be my ideal switch.

Box switches have very low wobble, however I have noticed that the Burnt Orange have even less.  Maybe the heavier spring allows less wobble?  I'm not sure, but it's a great feeling typing on a sturdy switch.

It may be due to different bump, I have a Hako BOX royal sample that I’ve clicked on the same amount and it didn’t develop a click, or at least a noticeable one. 

I think it’s due to a return concern, my BOX pink have stable wobble and my box Jade have slightly Wobblier stem.