Can anyone help me settle an NKRO nonsense argument?

[muchadoaboutnothing]

On a discussion about mechanical keyboards:

ow come no one here mentioned steelseries 7G/6Gv2 yet?

    it's the ONLY keyboard that has unlimited NKRO, plus mechanical keyboards with media keys aren't as common.

I argue that Filcos and DAS' have NKRO too. He argues:

no they have decent NKRO

steelseries is the only keyboard with unlimited, every-key-on-its-own-switch NKRO

Am I clueless despite having been here for a few months, or is he wrong?

Also, free cookies for anyone settling an internet argument.



Oops. Look's like I'm out.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Was the debate here?  Kinda more of a theoretical than a practical argument unless he looked like this.

Different site, otherwise I would have linked to the appropriate post.

[Phaedrus2129]

He's an idiot.

There's a difference between NKRO and "rollover". And that "every key on its own switch" ****ing idiot.

[ch_123]

Someone show me this retardation. Links people!

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Citing  Phaedrus2129:

>He's an idiot.
truly a convincing argument. no wonder you're so informed about this

Another poster, backing me up:

   Do you know how the **** NKRO is achieved? It's achieved by putting one diode per mechanical switch, allowing every key to be distinguished individually.

    Filco (NKRO models) have one diode per switch.
    DAS keyboards have one diode per switch.
    Steelseries boards have one diode per switch.

    All have NKRO. The same goddamn NKRO.

Reply to that:

sigh

no that's not how it's achieved. there is a controller circuit involved.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Someone show me this retardation. Links people!

The site is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. I'm not sure that's the best idea.

[ch_123]

Again, where is this taking place?

I think thought that you lot are probably getting trolled though.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Someone posts this:

Filco and others marketing their keyboards as NKRO is enough to vonfirm that they really are just as NKRO as Steelseries 6gv2/7g. NKRO means NKRO, which means that you can press down all the keys at the same time and they'll register. Its not called NKRO if you can only press down, lets say, 6 keys. Then its called 6 key rollover.

His reply?

that's not what N-key rollover means. ugh you're dumb

Hypocrisy much?

[Parak]

The site is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. I'm not sure that's the best idea.

ebaumsworld?

[WhiteRice]

Whoa whoa whoa, I thought n-key rollover implied n number of keys.

dammit now I have to go read the wiki again.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

ebaumsworld?

Something like that.

[ch_123]

Apparently this is taking place on 4chan. Go back to your families people...

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Apparently this is taking place on 4chan. Go back to your families people...

He's arguing that Steelseries is the only one with diodes on each key and a controller that properly supports it, and that there are degrees of NKRO.

[ch_123]

I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a meme somehow

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Apparently this is taking place on 4chan. Go back to your families people...

/b/ is hardly representative of the site as a whole, and on the technology board there are a fair number of people that are knowledgeable about the topic of mechanicals.

A fair number of people get pointed over here in the end for further advice.

[JBert]

I claim prior art with my model F AT. It has 2x handpalm-KRO and NO diodes!

[ch_123]

And it doesn't have individual switches either. WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!

[Mental Hobbit]

After educating him about the lacking size of his penis, you can let him know that prior to the cost cutting madness starting in the ealy nineties, NKRO was standard for many manufacturers. I have heaps of various old Cherry boards that have the same NKRO capabilities as the Steelseries, which I own too. So not only NKRO isn't a Seelseries thing, it's very old news too.

[ch_123]

After educating him about the lacking size of his penis, you can let him know that prior to the cost cutting madness starting in the ealy nineties, NKRO was standard for many manufacturers. I have heaps of various old Cherry boards that have the same NKRO capabilities as the Steelseries, which I own too. So not only NKRO isn't a Seelseries thing, it's very old news too.

Someone posted a Keytronic advertising brochure that claimed that NKRO was essential for "data entry"

Not sure what data they were entering...

[Arc'xer]

NKRO=N'key rollover. N being arbitrary any key/s.

NKRO is a component added(diode) to the matrix of a keyboard to provide you with a capability to press any combination of keys in any way and any combination of ways. Whether it's by the same row or by different rows or by different alternative toggles without blocking, ignoring, or faulting the keyboard temporarily. NKRO component can be limited(as in 2-keyRO or USB spec 6-keyRO) or extended to the entire key system to have full NKRO as in PS/2 albeit the former is more of a port limitation rather than the keyboards diodes.

The byproduct of full NKRO in that it provides in eliminating blocking, ignoring, or faulting of combination because of the properties added to each individual key. Is that individually the keys themselves can be activated regardless of combination all at once and sent along PS/2 currently, in full or all 6 in current USB spec limit and regardless of the limitation of human hands(5 fingers). In other words despite our own limitations; there is at least a system of redundancy added to the keyboard to eliminate cons and maximize pros. NKRO is added to all keys, I repeat "all" keys, that means ANY combination on any location of the keyboard has the safeguards to continue operation. People get too hung up on "What is the point of NKRO if my hand can't hit all the 100+ keys". It's not about that, it's about having a keyboard that can operate in any location that is typed on and avoid issues in any sector. Hence redundancy of the keyboard is enhanced.

That's my interpretation of it and who ever that jackass is; Filco uses diodes in the +$20 NKRO and Das and any other mechanical keyboard manufacturer adds diodes to their switches to provide NKRO. Sheer fact is that guy is either a big steelseries fan boy, who only listens to SS marketing or just a ****ing dumb ass, who doesn't read anything and is just fighting with you to waste your time. I wouldn't be surprised if the idea of NKRO is as old as the keyboard itself.

[PAINKILLER]

My dad's old typewriter had poor rollover characteristics. Only keys like Shift could be pressed together with other keys (I guess this is because diodes had been kinda new technology back when it was made, and had been expensive). No two character keys could be physically pressed at the same time, so definitely not NKRO. However you could start pressing the next key, before the previous one was fully pressed and released. With some combos, though, the typebars happened to lay too close to each other and blocking or even transposition errors could happen. If you tried to play some bad-ass ASCII game this could happen:

I was just about to put a few good rounds of both the cannons and the machineguns while on hard pitch up, roll and yaw to the right, and throttle forward! Oh, never mind.

Computer keyboards, on the other hand, can have extraordinary amount of keys pressed at the same time! A good NKRO test is to take your keyboard and press it towards a flat surface (or a slightly round surface, depending on the shape of the keyboard). If some of the keys refuse to depress, or jam, then your keyboard is definitely not unlimited NKRO. But if you are lucky, ALL keys would depress properly - this is unlimited NKRO. Now the feel of 100 key presses range from keyboard to keyboard. Some feel good, some not so much. When pressing in the middle, some keyboards will have the keys click in a progressive circle going out of the center. With others, all the keys will go down more or less simultaneously, or start from one end and roll to the other - this is very good unlimited NKRO!