Shiny keys on a model M

[bettablue]

I posted something a few days ago about how I thought my board might be a nice find because there almost no indications of wear on it.  Well, today, someone at my job brought me another nice model M.  This one is a blue label made in 1991, with a very stretched out coiled cable, and like mine it has a PS2 connector.  The thing about this is that it has definitely seen some use.  Not only is the cable stretched out, but there are some definite signs of wear.  There are shiny areas on the front of the case and most of the letter keys, have shiny areas on them too.  The keys with the most wear are along the home row, but it is evident on almost all of the letters.  The wonderful thing about it is that even with the wear, all of the legends are still completely readable.  Visually it is almost identical to my 1989 I have been writing about here in the forums.  

The board was cleaned before it was given to me, but I think the cleaning was done more to hide some sort of evil than to just make it presentable.  When I pulled a couple of the keys, there was still a lot of dirt underneath.  It looks like there may be some rust on the steel plate as well.  This board has seen a lot of hard use.  My friend told me he found it in his sister-in-laws house boxed up with an old IBM computer.  He knew I was looking for another model M for my wife, but I’m afraid this one won’t do.  Although the keyboard is in kind of bad shape, the computer looks pretty good.  I talked him into letting me have a crack at the “old” computer too, so I might restore it, or if it’s not salvageable, I’ll keep the keyboard and see what I can do with the computer later.  

Other than the shiny caps, the keys all seem fine.  It doesn’t have the 2 piece design I covet, but it the board all there.  There are no missing keys and all of them seem to feel OK.  They are not as crisp as those on my older board though.  There seems to be some wiggle or something.  I can’t describe exactly what I feel, but they do seem less precise.  When I plugged it in to my wife’s computer, it worked, so that is a plus.  All of the LEDs are there and they all light the way they are supposed to as well.  But, again they don’t seem as bright and the Num lock LED is visibly dimmer than the other two.  

It seems to me too that the board is loose on the right side.  So it pretty much demands that I open it up to take a look inside.  There may some of the plastic rivets broken.  The shine on the board’s casing isn’t all that bad, but I am afraid that there may be a lot of work putting this board together well enough to trust it.  A total rebuild may be in order, but I don’t know if I really should go that route, of if I did, if it would be worth the effort.  

So, what do you think?  Should I go for it and do a rebuild/refurb including the bolt mod, LED replacement and such, or should I look for another keyboard?

[kill will]

time = money

if you wanna spend time doing that stuff fine.  but as for worn out keys, you might as well get a refurbished great condition model m off ebay.  then start fresh so to speak.

[theferenc]

It just depends on what you want to do. I actually rather enjoy refurbing keyboards, myself.

And it's much cheaper to get new keycaps than it is to get a whole new keyboard, even the two piece keys that you seem to want (I agree with you there).

In fact, you might even be able to find someone willing to trade you a refurbed model for that one plus a little cash. It's worth asking in the classifieds, anyway.

[jpc]

Shiny keys are a badge of honor. That board has been places, it has done things.

Shiny keys are a good predictor of mushy springs. The springs can wear out over time and lose their crisp feel. Unicomp sells brand new crisp springs; you "just" need to do the bolt mod to install them. The result will feel like new.

[ch_123]

Model M keycaps will get shiny over time. The lettering takes much longer to fade (and it does, but not entirely because it is dye sub'd).

As regards springs - the play you feel could be popped rivets. Also, if the keyboard hasn't been kept well, it can cause fatigue on the springs. I think the springs don't wear as easily from use as I once believed.

[bettablue]

I opened it up last night and was completely surprised.  There is rust on the steel plate like I expected, and there is some powdery white corrsion on some of the circuit board connectors.  The rust extends almost the entire length of the board along the front edge, but that's it.  I won't be able to tell more until I drill out the rest of the rivets and separate all of the parts.  After cleaning off some of the corrosion on the connectors, everything looked pretty good, but I can tell there is still going to be a lot of work ahead.  The rivets on the right side are almost all broken.  It really looks like this board took a beating.

Ripster, you made a good point.  I am seriously thinking about moving ahead and refurbishing this old beast.  If anything, I can learn a few things.  

I read some articles on doing a bolt job, and replacing the springs, and I even read articles on adding a USB connection and after looking at these, I have decided that while doing all of this work may take some time, I will definitely have something to show for it , if the keyboard works when I'm done.  

I just wish I knew some of the history behind this keyboard.  I don't recall ever seeing one in so bad a shape, but then again I am new to the model Ms and what can be done with them.

[theferenc]

I would definitely go with ripster's advice on the 11 bolts, especially prior to verifying everything works.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is to put all of them back on, and then find a spring/hammer is mis-seated, and have to take it all apart again.

[bettablue]

Again, I agree.  I removed the rest of the rivets today.  Oh, what a mess, but I think it's still salvageable.  A new spring set is definitely in order.  The rust problem was a lot worse than my original inspection revealed.  There is a lot on the underside, but it's all surface rust.  The circuit boards are in pretty good shape as are the connectors.  I think I got lucky too.  Some of the springs have some rust on them too, but not too many and it looks like the rust didn't migrate any further.  The main thing is that the membranes are all good.  The gross part is that it really looks like someone used this keyboard as a lap tray.  There are bits of food everywhere!  Sesame seeds, crumbs and crud not withstanding, it took some work just to get all of that out andd cleaned.  I'll attack the steel plate tomorrow.  When I'm done, there won't be any rust and all of the other particles that are stuck to it will be gone.  I'll be ordering a new set of keys caps and springs on Monday.  By then, I'll have most of the holes drilled, so I'm on the way.

[theferenc]

Just take the drilling nice and slow, and try to get the holes as centered as possible.

I tend to use a box cutter to remove as much of the stem as possible after removing the steel plate. This has 2 main benefits: flattens out all of the stems, and makes them all nice and uniformly short, easing the reassembly (at least for me).

Also, if you are going to put all of the nuts on, I find it much easier to just start at one side and work across. This makes it easier to spot a misaligned hammer, too.

Good luck with it! I need to order new springs for my 122 key, as well as a small number of the key caps. Maybe I should have just purchased a new Unicomp terminal board with USB...

[Mr. Perfect]

Here's a question about the bolt mod. It looks like you tap the bolts into the plastic from on top of the board, and then put a nut on the bottom. If you're tapping the plastic anyway, why even bother with a nut? Just tap the bolts into the studs from the bottom.

[theferenc]

That is a method that is used to do a "partial" bolt mod. The thing is, the screws don't hold particularly tightly on their own. They never really grab the plastic in any meaningful way, at least in my experience.

That, plus I prefer nuts on my bolts as a general principal. I mean, I suppose you could use screws instead, which are designed to be used without nuts.

[bettablue]

Here's a question about the bolt mod. It looks like you tap the bolts into the plastic from on top of the board, and then put a nut on the bottom. If you're tapping the plastic anyway, why even bother with a nut? Just tap the bolts into the studs from the bottom.

I was wondering about that too.

[bettablue]

That is a method that is used to do a "partial" bolt mod. The thing is, the screws don't hold particularly tightly on their own. They never really grab the plastic in any meaningful way, at least in my experience.

That, plus I prefer nuts on my bolts as a general principal. I mean, I suppose you could use screws instead, which are designed to be used without nuts.

If you were to drill the holes slightly smaller, the screws would have something to grab onto.  It seems logical anyway.  Am I missing something?

[theferenc]

The problem is "slightly smaller" in this case is just too small (and also requires specialty shop type bits). These are bolts, not screws, so they aren't self driving like screws are.

Like I said, if you used screws, you could probably do it, except then you'd have pointy bits sticking out, catching things.

Also, I've found that the nuts allow me a certain amount of customization in terms of board feel and sound that just wouldn't be possible with only screws.

Edit: Oh, and I just realized an added complication of doing it that way. You would have to do it with the board fully assembled. Which would be, shall we say...excessively complicated.

[microsoft windows]

To the OP:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[bettablue]

Well, everything seems to be moot at this point.  I'm afraid the board is dead.  I found some of the circuitry to be somewhat flaky, litterally.  I looked at the circit boards under the keys and traced the pathways.  I found numerous breaks.  It looks like it was kept somewhere near a salt bath or something.  So, I'm afraid what I have here is now just a donor.  I'm going to keep some of the parts and just trash the rest.  There is just too much wrong with this keyboard.  Oh, well, I'll keep loooking for another M.  Going back to my original plan, maybe I'll even come across a black Lexmark M15 I can do a key swap with.

[bettablue]

To the OP:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Well, I'm afraid it's broke.  Nothing I did, although taking it apart didn't help, it certainly didn't hurt either.  There is just too much damage inside this keyboard to make repairing it a viable option.  I am going to keep some of the useable parts and keep looking for another model M.  So, I'm back to my original plan to get a black Lexmark and/or find a set of black keys.  Thanks everybody.  You are the best.  I really wanted to rebuild, but unfortunaltely, the keyboard had other ideas.

[theferenc]

How bad is it? Is it just the rust?

[bettablue]

How bad is it? Is it just the rust?

No, unfortunately, it's not just rust.  There are several breaks in the circuit paths on the right side of the boards printed circuit layer under the keys.  The breaks make it so that some of the arrow keys and a small part of the number pad will not work.  So, like I said, I'm not going to waste any more time trying to refurbish this one.  I was really hoping I could, but it has other ideas.  Oh, well; sometimes that's what you get for free.  Maybe if I get another one that the case isn't so good, or whatever, I might be able to salvage some parts elsewhere, but for now...