Author Topic: Cherry MX Blue reset position  (Read 9816 times)

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Offline daniel0731ex

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« on: Sat, 26 February 2011, 01:31:51 »
I just saw this thread today:

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13046

And thought that I should also try this similar mod on my gaming keys when I get by Ducky 1008.

But then I remember seeing these two pictures:





And noticed that the equivalent of the brown switch is to glue the white section at the bottom rather than at the top. Jusging from the picture, if you glue it at the top, first you would have about 1mm less travel, and second the keys won't register at all because the plastic contact is still pushing the leaf in that position.


But then the OP seems to not have any problems with the mod at all, so I was wondering perhaps the position where the white piece rests when at the reset point is not really at the bottom of the stem, but slightly shallower??

Could anyone verify this?
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline daniel0731ex

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 26 February 2011, 15:54:43 »
Actually, I said "equivalent" as in "working equivalently" rather than having the exact feel. Of course I did notice that the plastic whatever-you-call-it feet in the Blue have different profile than the Brownies.


And I am just asking if the resting position of that piece is at the exact bottom of the stem, or somewhere in between? (though I do know for sure that it's not at the very top.)

The reason why I want to perform the mod is because I thought that it would improve the responsiveness of the keys that I game on (the arrows, and the z, x, c key.)
« Last Edit: Sat, 26 February 2011, 15:56:49 by daniel0731ex »
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline daniel0731ex

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 26 February 2011, 15:57:12 »
Actually, I said "equivalent" as in "working equivalently" rather than having the exact feel. Of course I did notice that the plastic whatever-you-call-it feet in the Blues have different profile than the Brownies.


And I am just asking if the resting position of that piece is at the exact bottom of the stem, or somewhere in between? (though I do know for sure that it's not at the very top.)

The reason why I want to perform the mod is because I thought that it would improve the responsiveness of the keys that I game on (the arrows, and the z, x, c key.)
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline Findecanor

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 26 February 2011, 16:31:48 »
Quote from: daniel0731ex;301242
Jusging from the picture, if you glue it at the top, first you would have about 1mm less travel, and second the keys won't register at all because the plastic contact is still pushing the leaf in that position.
Quote from: daniel0731ex;301242
And noticed that the equivalent of the brown switch is to glue the white section at the bottom rather than at the top.
I think that you are on to something here, but that you are wrong in your conclusion.
So far we have only theories. I would like to hear from someone who has actually done it. I have not dared mod any of the blue switches in my keyboard.

Here is a picture borrowed from another thread:


You see that the slope after the bump is longer on the white section/blue switch.
In an unmodified blue switch the leaf pushes the white part down to the bottom*, which means that it does not matter that much that the slope is longer.
If the white part is glued somewhere, then the main spring will counteract the leaf and the longer slope is more significant.

I think that if you glue the white section to the top, then the tactile point will be the same but the actuation point will be lower because the slope is longer.
If you glued the white slider to the bottom then the tactile point would be higher up with the actuation point only a little bit lower -- the same as the reset point on an unmodified blue switch. Either way, the switch would be less tactile than an unmodified blue switch.

*: The force of the leaf is what creates the click. Not gravity alone. You can confirm this by holding your keyboard upside down and press a key. It still clicks with gravity pushing in the opposite direction.
I did a small experiment. I opened a brown switch, removed the spring, held it 90° sideways (thus nullifying gravity) and pressed the slider slowly. After the actuation point, the leaf pushed the entire brown slider to the bottom and there was a click!
« Last Edit: Sat, 26 February 2011, 16:40:15 by Findecanor »
🍉

Offline daniel0731ex

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 26 February 2011, 17:13:28 »
This is what I thought what the top-glued switch would be like:
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline Findecanor

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 26 February 2011, 18:00:00 »
Ah. Now I see what you mean..

I think that the main spring is stiff enough that this won't be a problem, though.
🍉

Offline Lanx

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 26 February 2011, 19:48:56 »
when i did the mod, the blues feel like they have more "bite", that's really about all i can like explain.

Offline daniel0731ex

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 26 February 2011, 21:18:17 »
Quote from: Lanx;301542
when i did the mod, the blues feel like they have more "bite", that's really about all i can like explain.


well, does the key register at all? And how about the key travel?
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline Lanx

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 26 February 2011, 22:20:08 »
yea registers just fine, uh key travel i didn't measure, unfortunately i just lumped those 2 switches with my box of cherries since i was modding and haven't had the time/luxury of getting back to it.

Offline Unicorn Fandom

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 27 February 2011, 01:59:53 »
Those animations are shockingly ribald and completely inappropriate. By god I thought this was a tasteful keyboard forum!

Offline keyboardlover

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 27 February 2011, 06:25:16 »
Quote from: Unicorn Fandom;301631
Those animations are shockingly ribald and completely inappropriate. By god I thought this was a tasteful keyboard forum!


You haven't been here very long have you? ;)

Offline daniel0731ex

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 27 February 2011, 14:00:23 »
Quote from: Lanx;301584
yea registers just fine, uh key travel i didn't measure, unfortunately i just lumped those 2 switches with my box of cherries since i was modding and haven't had the time/luxury of getting back to it.


Ok thanks.

BTW did you glue it to the top or to the bottom? The registering problem I was worrying about was for glueing it to the top.
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline daniel0731ex

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 27 February 2011, 18:33:51 »
Problem is, I haven't bought one yet. My dad is going back to Taiwan sometimes later so I asked him to buy the keyboard for me.

NT$1990 for Ducky 1008 if you buy them in Taiwan, which is about $66.
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline Human

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 27 February 2011, 20:39:28 »
Quote from: daniel0731ex;301925
Problem is, I haven't bought one yet. My dad is going back to Taiwan sometimes later so I asked him to buy the keyboard for me.

NT$1990 for Ducky 1008 if you buy them in Taiwan, which is about $66.


Their Ducky 1087 Tenkeyless also only NT$1990 where by they put it at NT$2790 for global...

Offline Human

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 27 February 2011, 21:01:40 »
Quote from: ripster;301962
I'll remember to charge anybody Chinese double next time I sell them something.


Something semi related.

Offline bpiphany

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 16 March 2011, 08:04:57 »
I think this might be the right place for this. I had to have a look myself to see what was going on =)

The white piece is normally held in place by the leaf resting in the groove in it.


When pressed, first the blue stem travels a short distance to meet up with the white thingy.


Then the white part is pushed past the leaf which then gives it a push down to the bottom of the stem. My conclusion is also that it is the contact leaves meeting that is making the click sound.


The stem and white thingy then have some further distance to travel before the switch bottoms out. (It is not fully bottomed out yet in this picture, the stem can go just flush into the casing.)


Since the white part is pushed past the leaf while on the top of the stem on the way down and then pulled past it while at the bottom of the stem on the way up there is some distance between the tactile bump on activation in contrast to the bump on the return.

Edit: actually I just noticed (in the first picture) that the white part is actually sitting just ever so slighlty higher than it would be if kept in place by the leaf. If you press a blue switch from the resting posistion there is sometimes a very faint tick just upon merely touching it. This is from the leaf bottoming out in the groove in the white plastic thing. So yes, the white part is actually being pulled up by the blue stem while in the normal position.

Edit: Which then means that the animated gifs are extremely accurate. Impressive work!
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 March 2011, 08:17:40 by PrinsValium »

Offline daniel0731ex

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 20 March 2011, 22:47:17 »
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS SO MUCH HELP FOR ME!!!


And just to confirm once again, so that means gluing the white part to the very top will not work, right? So I have to glue it just ever-so-slightly lower down the stem?
« Last Edit: Sun, 20 March 2011, 22:49:32 by daniel0731ex »
"I hated the Blackwidow. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hated the Blackwidow. Hated it. Hated every cheapening feeble useless user-insulting gimmicks of it. Hated the keycap font that thought anyone would like it. Hated the marketing pretense to the keyboard by its belief that anyone would be impressed by it."

Roger Exbert - The Number One Keyboard Critic On The Planet.

Offline bpiphany

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Cherry MX Blue reset position
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 21 March 2011, 01:21:34 »
I still think it is the leaves hitting eachother. The difference with the blue switch is that the white piece travels freely when pushed past the leaf. On the other switches the leaf glides down the slope on the stem and doesn't hit the other leaf with any speed. The force might of course be transferred into the housing plastic which then produces the sound. I don't know about that. What I don't think though is that the sound comes from the white part bottoming out on the stem.

Gluing the white part to the very bottom would probably produce the closest to blue functionality. It would stop clicking and the force graph would change slightly after the bump on the way down.

Edit: ok, I change my mind.. The click is from the plastic parts hitting eachother =) I held the stem between my fingers and shook it and that produced the same kind of sound.
« Last Edit: Mon, 21 March 2011, 01:25:58 by PrinsValium »