Relegendable keycaps

[Phaedrus2129]

Who else likes relegendable keycaps? I'm talking with Signature Plastics about pricing, and I was wondering if there's enough interest to do a group order. Pricing is volume sensitive, and the cost is prohibitively high for one person, but if ten people are interested we could get 50 single space keycaps and 2 double space keycaps per person for about $40. Black Cherry MX compatible keycaps with a DCS profile, ABT base and clear polycarbonate top.

[Phaedrus2129]

No one?

[WhiteRice]

What do you mean relegendable keycaps?

[WhiteRice]

Meh. I always wondered why this forum doesn't do more group purchases though. Especially for things like keycaps.

[British]

Because we can !

Regarding those caps, how do they actually feel ?

[Parabellum]

I wouldn't say no to relegendable keycaps..

[turkey]

I don't know if this offer is still open, but I'd like to be in it if it is. What I need are enough Cherry MX relegendable keycaps to replace all the keys on a FILCO 104-key Blue Cherry MX NKRO keyboard. I tried looking for Cherry MX relegendable keycaps on Hooleon.COM, but the sample they sent me is 8mm tall with a grey base, and the relegendable area is only on the top (the front is not relegendable). In addition, the keytop is flat, which means that replacing all the keys on the FILCO keyboard with them would eliminate the DCS profile that the original FILCO keys presented.

Each Cherry MX relegendable keycap from Hooleon.COM costs USD 2·75, which would mean that a full 104-key replacement costs at least USD 286·00 (and that's assuming the larger-sized relegendable keys cost the same as the 1x1-size relegendable keys, which I'm sure they don't). I'm not sure if Hooleon.COM even has any compatible, larger-sized relegendable keys to sell.

The circumstances that led me to search for replacement keys for my FILCO keyboard are funny, but also tragic. I had noticed that the coating on some of my FILCO keys had started to wear off, and reading threads in this forum convinced me that the keys would be better off with no coating at all. I pulled out all of the keys (including the red ESC key) and put them in a laundry bag and then put the laundry bag in the dishwasher. Big mistake: the dishwasher didn't do anything to remove the coating on the keys (keys from a $10 rubber dome keyboard did not manifest this problem, and the FILCO red ESC key was unaffected as well), and instead left translucent white splotches all over them. I have subsequently tried cleaning the keys by hand with an old rag and cream cleanser. I can get the keys buffed to a smooth shine with this method, but it is a terrible strain on the fingers and there are 104 keys that need cleaning. I then tried scrubbing some keys with a green ScotchBrite scourer (the blue one didn't have an effect). The scrubbed keys lost their coating and white splotches, but gained several scratches in the process, and the effort involved is only slightly less than that of the cream cleanser method. I have also tried washing some of the keys in a hot water bath using laundry soaker enzyme powder, with the water being too hot to touch but below boiling point. No good. The keys in the hot water bath retained most of their coating and white splotches, and became warped by the heat to boot.

Rather than buff every single key, I thought of getting relegendable keycaps instead. They don't have any coating. They can be colour-coded. They can have any font your printer can print. What's there not to like about them, aside from the cost? The DCS-profile Cherry MX relegendable keys from Signature Plastics sounds like the answer to all my problems. After this, all I will have to do is get rubber o-rings for each key and a FlexSkin keyboard protector that fits the FILCO's 104-key layout, and I will presumably have a fully-upgraded keyboard!

[Phaedrus2129]

Sorry to dash your hopes, but...

The keys have no profile, they're all flat topped. DCS profile just means they're the right height for a Cherry G80 keyboard's function row, which is different from Filco's. Getting them for the enter, backspace, backslash, etc, all non-standard keys means a custom mold for each, which costs some $30 per key. It would be cheaper to buy a new Filco.

[elbowglue]

Man that is a sick story.  You should embrace your butt ugly keyboard, like I do.  I take pride in the exposed wires of my Compaq 84u keyboard when you look at it from the right side.

[turkey]

Aww, nuts. This means there's apparently no way to make a fully relegendable keyboard like you can with the KeyTronic rubber dome keyboards. Luckily, I didn't toss any of my non 1x1 FILCO keys into the hot chemical bath, so I could still buff those up by hand to remove the coating and then replace all the 1x1 keys with flat-profile, relegendable ones. The keyboard would look funny and feel funny, but it would be a fully operational keyboard — much better than trying to type by pressing on the blue Cherry MX keystems directly.

Sandblast those keys? Yeah, but I'd need a sandblasting machine to do that. That's some capital expenditure right there for you. Besides, it's not like there's any place to do sandblasting when you live in an apartment building (maybe the toilet). I've read the GeekHack Wiki article where sandblasting was used as a method to restore shiny keys to their original non-shiny state, but I definitely don't mind shiny keys — just as long as they're shiny all around.

Now, I suppose I could hop onto some Taiwanese website and buy a set of FILCO blank keycaps. They definitely wouldn't have any coating on them and so the only extra thing I would need to get is a set of keyboard stickers with legends printed on them. If I were to buy a new FILCO that came with the usual coated keys with legends on them, then the same problem with the coating wearing off would happen again a couple of months down the road. If only there was a way to buy doubleshot keycaps that would fit the FILCO. If a store were to place a big order and maybe buy them from a custom keycap manufacturer at US$40 a set, it could maybe sell them at US$60 a set and I'm sure there would be buyers!

[turkey]

Several weeks back, I decided to get in touch with staff working at Hooleon.COM to ask about the Cherry MX relegendable keycaps they sold. It turns out that they actually have several variations of such keycaps available in their inventory. I bought a small handful to try based on their part numbers and descriptions (they didn't have any pictures, part numbers or descriptions available on their website), trying to make an educated guess as to which ones were the right keycaps to buy. Later on I asked the staff at Hooleon.COM to provide a full list of part numbers and descriptions for Cherry MX relegendable keycaps, if they could. This is what I was given via e-mail:-

Relegendable Cherry MX Keycaps

• 301-080-0319  Cherry Rel Dcs 1x Rf/# Gry H811 (I bought 5 of these for USD 2·25 each — comes with 301-999-0001 clear cap)
• 301-080-0324  Cherry Rel Dcs 1x RQ Gray H81 (I bought 5 of these for USD 2·25 each — comes with 301-999-0003 clear cap)
• 301-080-0325  Cherry Rel Dcs 1x RA Gray H81 (I bought 5 of these for USD 2·25 each — comes with 301-999-0005 clear cap)
• 301-080-0326  Cherry Rel Dcs 1x RZ Gray H81 (I bought 5 of these for USD 2·25 each — comes with 301-999-0007 clear cap)
• 301-080-1098  Cherry Rel DSA 2xV/H Gray H83
• 301-080-1099  Cherry REL DCS 1x RF/ Gry H80
• 301-080-1100  Cherry REL DSS 2xV/H Gray H80
• 301-080-1101  Cherry REL DSA 2xV/H Gry H811 (I bought 2 of these for USD 3·75 each — comes with 301-999-0009 frosted cap)
• 301-080-1108  Cherry REL DCS 1x RQ Gray H800
• 301-080-1109  Cherry REL DCS 1x RA Gray H800
• 301-080-1110  REL DCS 1x RZ Gray H800
• 301-090-0024  Cherry 8mm 1x Relg Frost Cap
• 301-090-0025  Cherry 8mm 1x Relg ABS Gry H81

Non-Relegendable Cherry MX Keycaps

• 301-080-1095  Cherry 1x R1 Poly Gray H843
• 301-080-1096  Cherry 1x R2 Poly Gray H843
• 301-085-0015  Compaq 1x R-All ABS Green H72
• 301-085-0016  Compaq 1x R-All ABS MBlue H62
• 301-085-0017  Compaq 1x R-All ABS Yellw H21
• 301-085-0018  Compaq 1x R-All ABS Red H426
• 301-085-0019  Compaq 1x R-All ABS Gray H889

The thing is, can anybody tell me whether I bought the right thing, or not? I mean, according to this .PDF file on Signature Plastics' website I found regarding the DCS family of keys, there are actually six rows of keycaps to take into account on a keyboard. I only have four different kinds of Cherry MX relegendable keycaps (1x1 size) with me, so what am I supposed to put into the other two rows? The .PDF file seems to say that the angle for the row with the spacebar and the row immediately above that are of the same angle, but the diagram shows the spacebar row as having a curved top edge instead of a straight one. Does that mean the 1x1 keycaps in the spacebar row (the three arrow keycaps and the DEL on the numeric keypad) are different from those in the row immediately above?

Finally, I'd also like to know what the differences between the keycaps designated "H80", "H800", "H81", "H811", etc. are. I mean, maybe these designations refer to the height of the keycap base (without the clear plastic cover added on yet), but surely there isn't any appreciable difference between a height of 8·0mm and 8·00mm, or for that matter, a height of 8·1mm and 8·11mm?

[turkey]

I asked staff working at Hooleon.COM about the meaning of the "H-Numbers" that I mentioned in my previous post. I was told that the "H-Numbers" actually represented the colour of the keycap, and not its height. This must mean that they have some sort of colour chart for reference, like how merchants for paints, fabrics and tiles would have a book with samples of the actual item being sold mounted onto the pages. These samples would have a descriptive name and also a number designation so that the customer would be able to specify — in exact terms — what was to be ordered.

As such, the 'H' in the "H-numbers" would stand for hue and not height. I don't have a colour chart to refer to, but at least all the keycaps with "H8#" or "H8##" designations have the word "Gray" in their descriptive names.

[mooremanifestation]

I have one of these.  The keycaps are definitely nice. The numpad keys and enter key have a definite shine from wear, but the rest of the keys are in good shape.  YMMV, of course.

At $2 to $3 a pop I'd recommend instead getting one of these.

You get a lot of relegendables.  And maybe a keyboard you like although most POS keyboards are too worn for my taste.  The Relegendables don't get as much use as the main cluster though.

Show Image

[bettablue]

These.

Show Image

Oooohhhh!  I would love to get some of these for my model M too.  I know I've seen them for the M, but like mentioned, they can be expensive.  Personally, I would love to get a complete set for all of the single space keys.

[Ekaros]

Soo, I got about 50 of these sitting on Xkeys professional, they also got nice orange, blue and green hues

Don't realy know what I should do with that piece...

[turkey]

Heh, you're right that I could buy an old Cherry MX POS keyboard and take the relegendable keycaps off of it, but the keycaps I see in the picture there are all the same height and angle — like they all belong to the F-key row. What I need are Cherry MX relegendable keys that are made according to the DCS profile, since I'll be using them to replace the 1x1 keys on the FILCO keyboard whose keys I wrecked when I tried washing them in the dishwasher.

Anyway, the following image is an example of how susceptible the coated FILCO keys are to dishwasher conditions and powder. The 'B' key on the left is what a coated FILCO key will generally look like after coming out of the dishwasher (the cross-hatch marks are the same as the pattern from the dishwasher's cutlery basket). If you are determined and patient, you can buff away the cross-hatch marks (and also the rest of the coating) with AUTOSOL Metal Polish, which appears to work on plastic as well. Then you will have a clean and shiny-looking key, like the 'T' key on the right.



However, a keyboard like this has 104 keys, and to buff them all by hand would be an extremely arduous task. Therefore, I am much more inclined to replace as many of the keys as possible with relegendable ones instead. Of course, I am pleased to report that the FILCO's red ESC key, which does not have any coating to speak of, is unaffected by anything that the dishwasher can throw at it.

[CeeSA]

i only like the "flat" version. You have these on Tipro POS as example

[turkey]

Oooohhhh!  I would love to get some of these for my model M too.  I know I've seen them for the M, but like mentioned, they can be expensive.  Personally, I would love to get a complete set for all of the single space keys.

Well, I've done it. Cost a bomb and the entire process was a pain, but now there is a FILCO keyboard out there with blank relegendable 1x keys. The rest of the keys that could not be replaced were polished up by hand to remove any of the white marks they had from the time they were washed in the dishwasher. Consequently, the polished keys are also now very shiny.



Every 1x key on this FILCO keyboard, with the exception of the red ESC key, has been replaced with a relegendable one. The relegendable keys I used follow the DCS profile, so they aren't all the same height from row-to-row. For the function-key row, I used the standard, flat Cherry MX relegendable key that Phaedrus2129 wanted to buy at the beginning of this thread. Now I just have to figure out an elegant way to get legends for the keys, but that is probably another story for another time.

[guilleguillaume]

What the hell happened to those keycaps?

[oyecomova]

how about the cherry style relegendable glow in the dark keys?
Any way to recreate these? Doesn't SP have a glow in the dark code?

http://keyboardporn.com/keycaps/cherry-glow-in-the-dark/

[The Solutor]

how about the cherry style relegendable glow in the dark keys?
Any way to recreate these? Doesn't SP have a glow in the dark code?

http://keyboardporn.com/keycaps/cherry-glow-in-the-dark/

http://www.latkey.com/glowing_stickers.asp?SubCat=14