Key layouts

[masonkbgeek]

Does anyone use nonstandard key layouts?

I was considering trying Colemak because it minimizes disruption from QWERTY, in particular, it does not move a lot of important shortcut keys like x,c,v.  

But, I haven't done it yet.  I'm not sure that I'm ready to take the step of retraining twenty years of instinct.  The keys are like an extension of my hands, and since I started learning when I was five, I am not convinced that I will eventually regain my full ability in the new layout (since my brain is clearly inferior to what it was once was).  

What I have taken from Colemak, though, is putting delete on the caps key, and simply not having a caps key.  Because caps is damned useless, and the ability to delete from the home row seems like it's going to save me time, if I can ever get used to it.  So far though, I rarely use it.

What non-standard keyboard layouts do you use?

[Viett]

I can type "fluently" in QWERTY and Dvorak and can touch type Colemak pretty slowly.

QWERTY definitely has its problems, but there's absolutely nothing stopping you from typing really fast with it. It is tiring to type after a while, however. I can hit 90WPM Dvorak, which I've been typing for about a year, and I think it is much more comfortable. My only criticisms are the L and S keys (right pinky) and the location of the ZXCV keys (for control functions).

From what I've typed so far, Colemak is a very nice layout. My only real criticism would be the B key, which I think I'd rather like to see where the J is. I think the Backspace is nice where the Caps Lock is, but the Caps Lock is absolutely necessary because I touch type my shifts (I use both). This can be troublesome for acronyms (Try typing U.S.A. without Caps Lock, then again with it). I would be more content with the Caps Lock and the Backspaces swapped, rather than requiring Shift + Caps lock to change caps. This requires the use of the right shift too, which is annoying.

But I still need to become "fluent" in Colemak before I can take my criticisms to the next level.

In all, however, if you want speed/convenience rather than comfort, stick with QWERTY!

[itlnstln]

Recursive pattern... Your brain needs training, especially when you get older. Can be in many forms, like a certain Nintendo game, taking a vacation to a really different environment, learning a new language or rewiring some skills. You know, I'm a hacker and always have been. When I was in my teens it was the time of the Amiga scene which was huge in Europe, and the kids there were the best I've ever seen - be it in programming or cracking, and I think it is because at that age your brain can absorb information better and quicker than at any age. But on the other hand, natural languages were never my strongest point, but I pick 'em up easier than ever, and when I'm learning a foreign language it comes back it the quality of my programming, I feel more refreshed and inspired, which is something to think about. Long story short: Try something different. It's good for you, whether it's effective in a direct way or not.

Great post.  I am always looking for new things to experience/learn.  It keeps the brain working and life more interesting and enjoyable.

[Hyperion]

Oh man, I am stuck on qwerty because I'm a gamer and with the current game I have, I need to use hotkeys that I cannot remap because the program doesn't work on windows 7. I might try dvorak when League of Legends comes out but since I have a das ult, it's not going to be easy or effective for a few months.

[FunkTrooper]

Colemak ftw! I've never tried Dvorak, and I've never actually been able to touch-type in Qwerty.  The fact that I found it so difficult to learn to touch type in Qwerty is one of the reasons I first tried Colemak (and I am *so* glad I did)

I think the Backspace is nice where the Caps Lock is, but the Caps Lock is absolutely necessary because I touch type my shifts (I use both). This can be troublesome for acronyms (Try typing U.S.A. without Caps Lock, then again with it). I would be more content with the Caps Lock and the Backspaces swapped, rather than requiring Shift + Caps lock to change caps. This requires the use of the right shift too, which is annoying.

There's nothing stopping you from just swapping Caps Lock and Backspace.  You don't have to stick to the layout exactly.  A quick look at the Colemak forums reveals that loads of the people there swap the keys, instead of having two backspaces.  To be honest though, I do have two backspaces.  When using a US layout keyboard, it's no problem: the left shift key can be held down with your pinky, without requiring you to move your hand away from the home position.  So you can easily type ALL CAPS if you ever have to.  But with a pesky ISO/European/105 key layout, there's that pointless extra key there, and holding down left shift while typing is then a bit of a stretch, and Caps Lock is kinda handy. (You may have noticed that I really really hate non-US layouts)

[DarthShrine]

I use Dvorak, but I can touch-type Qwerty or Colemak if need be. I really like Dvorak and seem to have caused a few people around me to make the switch too. If you're worried about the shortcuts moving around, there are modes that keep Qwerty for shortcuts, but Dvorak for normal typing.

[D-EJ915]

It's not a non-qwerty layout but I use the canadian french layout, the one with #|\ as the tilde key.  Granted I never, ever, use the é key but whatever lol, that position sucks anyway (same with z) which is a big reason to move /? elsewhere as I use those all the time lol.

[keyb_gr]

The backspace on caps lock in Colemak actually is a pretty neat idea. Now I can go back with backspace and forward with Shift-Backspace here, using the left hand only. (I never, ever use Caps Lock.)

[JBert]

From what I've typed so far, Colemak is a very nice layout. My only real criticism would be the B key, which I think I'd rather like to see where the J is. I think the Backspace is nice where the Caps Lock is, but the Caps Lock is absolutely necessary because I touch type my shifts (I use both). This can be troublesome for acronyms (Try typing U.S.A. without Caps Lock, then again with it). I would be more content with the Caps Lock and the Backspaces swapped, rather than requiring Shift + Caps lock to change caps. This requires the use of the right shift too, which is annoying.

I have the same annoyance with Colemak as I have to use quite some XML languages which use all-caps.

I did find a way to alleviate the problem though: use the Portable Keyboard Layout program. By default, PKL allows you to toggle caps lock on by pressing Shift+Caps Lock.
Personally, I rebound it to AltGr+Caps Lock as I could accidentally toggle Caps Lock when I wanted to press backspace while holding Shift.

The only issue is that PKL won't work for a windows login prompt - which is even more important to remember when your PC's "default layout" is not Colemak (I happen to have my work PC set to Qwerty by default so my colleagues can occasionally login without going mad).

[Rajagra]

What I have taken from Colemak, though, is putting delete on the caps key, and simply not having a caps key.  Because caps is damned useless, and the ability to delete from the home row seems like it's going to save me time, if I can ever get used to it.  So far though, I rarely use it.

I'm still on QWERTY atm, but I have changed Caps_Lock to act as backspace. It is a huge improvement and you get used to it quickly. I've kept the normal backspace too, sometimes it feels better to use that one.

My Context_Menu key (which I have never felt a need to use) now acts as Caps_Lock. The Scroll_Lock key acts as Context_Menu. (Hey, you never know...)

Scroll_Lock has no use I know of other than controlling some KVM switches. Luckily it will still do that even if you reprogram it on the PC!

[MANISH7]

I am not very good with unlearning Qwerty which I have been using for 10+ years. I'm at 20 wpm Dvorak but sometimes my fingers instinctively hit Qwerty keys. I'm going to try to master Dvorak first and then give Colemak a try. I don't want to waste the effort I put in to get to 20 wpm Dvorak, even if makes learning Colemak tougher.

Learning is fun but unlearning is not.  

Btw - to gauge the various layouts, take something you've written in the past e.g. essay and paste it into this analyzer:

http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/

It'll tell you how much you use which finger. For a 12 page essay, Colemak made my right pinky work 17% of the time whereas Dvorak made it work 22%. Not sure how significant that is.

My only confusion is that my pinky usage changes (according to analyzer) based on what thumb I use to type spacebar. What does the thumb have to do with the pinky? If I say I use both thumbs than my pinky usage supposedly goes down to 16% from 22%.

[ironcoder]

Yeah I guess I do use an alternate key layout, it's called Emacs (groan).

Actually I was thinking it would be cool to steal those 4 blue keys I see on some kbs and move them over to the hjkl keys for Vi. Has anyone tried that?

[MANISH7]

It's because 100% is defined by 4 fingers first, and 5 fingers after you changed it. Piece of pie didn't change, but the total size of the pie did.

Ahh...thank you Sir. Good catch.

[pmyshkin]

I've been on Colemak going on ten days now, and I can get 30 wpm pretty easily. When I just started it felt like there was going to be no way in hell I was ever going to learn the layout in less than a month, but I just kept at it and the improvement was steady.

My main suggestion is that you start with a typing tutor like ktouch first. Don't try to use it for real stuff until you get to like 20 wpm, otherwise you'll be very stressed out trying to constantly inhibit your natural qwerty response for every letter you type.

[iggysaps]

Been using colemak for about 6 months and average at about 70 to 80 wpm with around 96% accuracy.  Was touch typing QWERTY about 15 years or so.  Now i type slow on qwerty, but if I put my mind to it, it seems to come back after awhile.

Problem is I seldom use other people's computers, which means, I set all my computers to  Colemak.  The only time I ever use other people's pc's I now have to look at the keys while using QWERTY but try to keep the usual and proper finger positions when typing.

[Tony]

I am a Colemak user for 40 days now, after 15 years of touch typing in Qwerty.

My Qwerty speed is about 60wpm. After 40 days, my Colemak speed is about 48wpm, and I expect to get the old speed in 3 months' time. So far so good. My wrists are much more calmer and relaxed.

I use TypeFaster to learn the keyboard layout in 3 days, after that I use Typing Master, Typing Tutor 7 (Simon and Schuster), Amphetype (any typing tutor will do) to train and drill for weak keys and words.

For fun I play Typer Shark and Typing for the Dead as well.

My max speed are 55wpm now. You can watch my progress at hi-games.net

[jpc]

I am trying to learn Colemak, and also proper home-row typing with correct finger-to-key combinations. Today is day 2.

Since age 7 I've used turbo-hunt-n-peck (TM) qwerty using mostly middle and index fingers.

The goal is to justify the purchase of a Kinesis Advantage. The Kinesis looks awesome but it requires true home-row. If I'm going to learn that, it might as well be in a layout designed for home row typing.

Healing an RSI is a secondary goal.

[Tony]

@jpc: The first 2 weeks of learning a layout are hardest. After the 3rd weeks things are easier, and you can use that layout (here Colemak) full time.



For fun you may want to try some games online or off line like Typer Shark . Make learning process a game which you try to excel at.

[sordna]

The goal is to justify the purchase of a Kinesis Advantage. The Kinesis looks awesome but it requires true home-row. If I'm going to learn that, it might as well be in a layout designed for home row typing. Healing an RSI is a secondary goal.

I switched to Kinesis Classic (same as Advantage, but PS/2) along with dvorak at the same time (there was no Colemak back then). No regrets. In fact the Kinesis is soooo easy to learn to properly touch type on, including touch typing numbers; at home I have it on a keyboard tray that is completely under my desk, I can't see my fingers when I look down.
Also putting keys such as space, backspace, enter on your thumbs is a wonderful relief for RSI. I even moved TAB to the thumb (swapped with DELETE) since I use it a lot for command completion. Programmability without use of software is another great feature of this keyboard. I also use a foot switch for the shift.

[Input Nirvana]

I switched to Kinesis Classic (same as Advantage, but PS/2) along with dvorak at the same time (there was no Colemak back then). No regrets. In fact the Kinesis is soooo easy to learn to properly touch type on, including touch typing numbers; at home I have it on a keyboard tray that is completely under my desk, I can't see my fingers when I look down.
Also putting keys such as space, backspace, enter on your thumbs is a wonderful relief for RSI. I even moved TAB to the thumb (swapped with DELETE) since I use it a lot for command completion. Programmability without use of software is another great feature of this keyboard. I also use a foot switch for the shift.

I completely agree. The Kinesis Contour sort of forces you to (more) properly type. It's sort of a side-benefit, but probably not the reason to buy it. I'm thinking the Maltron line should have the same side-benefit as well.

I just sent Maltron an email about purchasing 2 of their 3D cases-only, no keys, switches, electronics......