Author Topic: Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming  (Read 14477 times)

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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« on: Fri, 12 August 2011, 15:02:53 »
Don't wanna drag it on. Basically, I need a good mouse primarily for Starcraft 2, or for precision text editing. I don't need 20 buttons on the mouse and I'm going to ignore any software that comes with it, let alone any macro recording. Therefore I'd prefer not to be paying for it (but I'm prepared to spend money otherwise). In fact, I'd prefer two buttons (seriously) and one wheel (not even necessary) but good optics. Since I use 1920*1080, DPI probably matters. I'm right-handed, have a big palm and long fingers, probably prefer "claw grip" when gaming since "palm grip" in fast-paced situations is kinda uncomfortable.

I'm having a suspicion that due to the nature of hand position and movements associated with dragging and clicking in RTS games, it would be better to have a small mouse and not profiled (therefore also not raised up high so that your palm necessarily curls around it because when you need to click a lot in that position, it kinda hurts then). I'm also suspecting that it might be possible that the mouse simply has to be either small or really big but cannot be merely "kinda big", as perhaps the palm joints would have an easier time if the mouse were just the size of the palm.

Using A4-Tech X7 now (nicknamed Oscar IIRC).

So, whatcha think?

Offline squarebox

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 12 August 2011, 15:52:01 »
If you are looking for something simple, cheap and isn't using a clothpad, the Razer Abyssus(3500 DPI) will fit you requirements perfectly.

Other options:
- Razer Deathadder
- Logitech G9x
- Cooler Master Spawn
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 August 2011, 15:57:46 by squarebox »
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 12 August 2011, 16:02:55 »
I actually have a clothpad, Goliathus Speed. Does this change things?

And doesn't have to be cheap (though it'd be nice), just don't want 20 buttons and lots of software I won't ever be using.

Offline Arcanius

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 12 August 2011, 16:44:49 »
Try for a Logitech G500? I have a large palm as well (9 cm wide at knuckles, 19cm from wrist to tip of middle finger), and use a finger grip, with is a hybrid of claw and palm. Mouse feels nice in the hand, and isn't too large or small.

Offline TheProfosist

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 12 August 2011, 21:56:39 »
id say go for ikari or xai (though the new sensei is comiin out and replacing it) as their stuff minus macros is controllable via the mouse

Offline Aznguyen316

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 13 August 2011, 08:37:33 »
Quote from: NewbieOneKenobi;397912
I actually have a clothpad, Goliathus Speed. Does this change things?

And doesn't have to be cheap (though it'd be nice), just don't want 20 buttons and lots of software I won't ever be using.

The Goliathus speed is very commonly paired with the Razer Abyssus.  I used it on a cloth Kabuto as well no problems.  People have mentioned issues on a SS QcK.  I now use it on a plastic mat SS 4HD mat.  I just got the Abyssus in the mail and I like it a lot.  What I love about it is NO SOFTWARE - because I use it on OSX and Razer's drivers have always been a little screwy to me in OSX.  All the switches are on the bottom, hardware level.  450, 1800, 3500 dpi and 125hz or 1000hz response time.  Plug n play at it's finest.  I picked it up for $35 shipped on amazon.  I've been using $80 + Razer mice and this one I love just for it's lightweight and simplicity.  Less is more.  I bought it specifically with SC2 in mind as well..  Here check my vid =) I compare it to Orochi as well.  Abyssus mini-review

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 19 August 2011, 14:58:36 »
Thanks for input, guys. It's nice not to be left alone with such complicated choices! :D ;)

I've been digging and digging and even tried some stuff in my hand and it seems to me I basically have two choices: huge (as in enabling uncompromised palm grip with my big hands and long fingers), or small. With the size of my hand, there's a chance a small, not very tall mouse could fit in just the fingers. I'm thinking about the M$ Pilot kind of feel, though I wouldn't buy that exact type of mouse for gaming purposes.

So here are some facts: apparently, I prefer the fingertip grip and high sensitivity but there was something special about how fluidly an old Microsoft 700 mouse I found worked in SC2. Too slow movement across the screen but otherwise great. Made me think about getting an Intellimouse 3 or its "successor" Comfort Mouse 6000 but I'm afraid of their 400 and 1000 dpi respectively. On the other hand, I tried a *laser* mouse today and couldn't catch up with 1600 (cursor was running away from me, LOL, while on optical, I go for 3200). I'm disinclined from buying from M$ for personal reasons due to certain bad memories associated with the company (nothing to do with the quality of their products) and thus the logo. Since I spend 16 hours a day on the computer, this matters. I have issues with Razer too (cult mentality), so I'd prefer not to look at their logo all the time either. Otherwise Abyssus would have a strong chance.

Any opinions on Saitek's R.A.T. 7 (transformers kinda mouse you can adjust for any shape you want) or Qpad 5K (Qpad's only mouse and the only mouse having dedicated support for the pinky and the ring fingers)? Are they good stuff or do I stick with Xai? Also, what's the smallest mouse with a decent DPI?

Offline RamaBot

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 19 August 2011, 19:53:46 »
The best mouse in my opinion is the Xai. I have tried many mice in the search for the perfect one for me and the Xai is the one.

But also in the list of mice I have tried I thought the Gigabyte m6900 may suit you too. It is a really good optical mouse that is medium sized and performs very well.

http://www.play.com/Search.html?searchtype=allproducts&searchsource=0&searchstring=m6900

And it is really cheap.

Offline Bry

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 19 August 2011, 20:47:11 »
Just got my Ikari in the mail earlier today. I've been playing a bit of SC2 with it and it seems to work pretty good. It's best for plam gripping, but you can finger grip it if you're creative enough. I bought it on kind of a whim just because it looks so cool in white haha; matches my white a40's.

But I much prefer the texture of my g5, it never gets slippery or feels weird when your hand is sweaty. It's 4 years old though and I felt like getting something new lol.  Honestly I'd recommend either mouse though. If you don't want the glossy finish (it's admittedly kind of strange), then I'm sure the black one feels amazing.

The Xai looks nice as well, but I tend to like bigger mice since when I'm not gaming I palm my mouse since it's more comfortable. You can pretty much claw grip anything, some mice are just better for it than others.
« Last Edit: Fri, 19 August 2011, 20:50:58 by Bry »

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Offline Quarzac

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 19 August 2011, 22:45:21 »
I'm partial to my G500. It is pretty big, so it will probably suit you.
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Offline simon_C

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 20 August 2011, 13:24:38 »
ive got massive meat hook hands, and i love my mx518. its great for big hands, i too claw grip it. been using it steady since 2006 without incident or injury, and i  have terrible wrists.

Offline peda

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 22 August 2011, 01:22:38 »
Quote from: RamaBot;401968
The best mouse in my opinion is the Xai. I have tried many mice in the search for the perfect one for me and the Xai is the one.

But also in the list of mice I have tried I thought the Gigabyte m6900 may suit you too. It is a really good optical mouse that is medium sized and performs very well.

http://www.play.com/Search.html?searchtype=allproducts&searchsource=0&searchstring=m6900

And it is really cheap.


+1 on the Xai!


btw... where is "Nr.1 expert in the world for mice" - Bilbin recently? So many mouse-treads he could crap his 'knowledge' on.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 12:32:09 »
Hey, guys, thanks for the new ones. I'm talking a close look on all of them.

I'm also looking at a couple others, though. Do we have any experience with these:

COOLERMASTER SENTINEL ZERO G: http://allegro.pl/mysz-cm-storm-coolermaster-sentinel-zero-g-i1788351919.html (I'm drawn to the grip)
Saitek Cyborg R.A.T. 7: http://allegro.pl/saitek-cyborg-mouse-r-a-t-7-24h-fvat-i1777882531.html (adjustable in many ways and directions and degrees)
Qpad 5k: http://allegro.pl/mysz-laserowa-qpad-5k-pro-do-duzej-dloni-i1775742204.html (look at the pinky and ring finger support)

Any thoughts on how these may turn out?

What sucks is I can't really go and try on my own. Where I live there's no practice of enabling that, except for maybe office mice in supermarkets but never the gaming ones anyway.

And I'm still hesitating between palm and fingertip grip (claw less so). Not sure palm will allow me the kind of ability to respond I need in RTS. It's a bit like shooting a gun while sitting in a chair...

Not fully decided about size, either. I just know that most mini mice will indeed be too mini. I bought one for peanuts (http://www.ceneo.pl/showPicture.aspx?productID=12482617) and while a great mouse (1000 dpi, rubberized grip, great execution quality, USB plug, $2.50) it proved I need something bigger even if I'm going to try the same things Starcraft: Brood War pro' players did with the Logitech Mini Optical. So I suppose I could take something classified as medium for normal people (Kinzu?) and use it as a mini. But if I want an actually big mouse for comfortable palm grip etc., I need something really huge (DeathAdder would be too small) or else my fingers will dangle and the base of my palm will still not have contact.

Another issue is that a good, big palm gripper is going to be heavy, like 160g or more. This is not a non-issue from the RIS/CTS standpoint. On the other hand, it's probably better to have a comfy grip of something that's like 160g than a bad grip of 120g.
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 August 2011, 12:34:10 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline peda

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 12:42:43 »
Quote from: NewbieOneKenobi;404947
Saitek Cyborg R.A.T. 7: http://allegro.pl/saitek-cyborg-mouse-r-a-t-7-24h-fvat-i1777882531.html (adjustable in many ways and directions and degrees)

there is an albino version of it. Lets call it v2 where they fixed the sensor issues there were.

Here is the link to more info: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:21141&highlight=albino

Offline Lolcakes

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 13:04:24 »
I personally think I wouldnt be able to play SC at all with palm gripping any mouse. I find that any kind of "pinky support" gets into the way when playing SC, even thought it looks great for ergonomics and maybe is nice for web browsing. I think most people who play SC prefer small and light mice (< 90 grams) that you can move effortlessly with the tip of your fingers.

Even though being precise is still very important i feel that for SC precise aiming is less important than it is for FPS games (where you try to score headshots i guess, i dont play those games^^), However, speed is very important (For example you see a bunch of banelings rolling towards your marines... You need to be able to spread your units very fast).

I would +1 the Xai mouse actually. It is light and fast and lots of people really like it. I would add to the list of potentially nice mice the Zowie Mico.

Personally I am using the Razer Diamondback 3G. Its an older mouse, has some annoying driver imperfections and in general I dont like Razer products. I chose this one because of the shape of it - I like the fact that it is narrow at the bottom, to me it feels faster when I want to play quickly (Because of the lack of pinky and thumb support)

Offline HeavyArms

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 13:33:30 »
Xai is a really good mouse, but im in love with the formfactor and simplicity of my abyssus.
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Offline Bilbin

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 13:45:47 »
Razer Abyssus
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 14:51:40 »
I like it too. Anything with a similar form factor that isn't from Razer?

Offline Chobopants

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 16:09:13 »
I have 3 Lachesis mice but just ordered a Xai to see if my oldschool IM 1.1 skills will come back. I'll have it tomorrow.
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 16:21:09 »
I'll greatly appreciate the info! I considered IM 3.0 or 1.1 or the new Comfort Mouse 6000 for a while, too, though I'd rather have a couple more dpi and no Microsoft logo on my rodent.

The best oldschool mouse skills I think I've had were on on an A4tech ball mouse, don't remember the name, something with 4D and something with WWW. It had a horizontal wheel actually. I've even connected a ball mouse for Starcraft 2 and it felt great (better than optical and laser) but movement was too slow. I had a whole technique of using ball mice without much visible movement of the hand. Nobody else could use the computer with my settings. But that was way before HD res.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 16:58:57 »
What about this, does it look substantially similar to Abyssus? It's supposed to have 6500 dpi.

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1134/pg3/tt-esports-black-element-gaming-mouse-review-the-mouse.html

Offline Chobopants

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 17:00:44 »
What an interesting mouse. I'm always dubious because driver support can make or break a mouse.
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Offline Brodie337

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 19:54:06 »
In practice, DPI of more than about 3000-4000 is simply a waste of time. I've got a 5700 DPI Logitech, and I've got to say, with the Windows mouse sensitivity set to the middle, and the mouse acceleration fix (1:1 control), anything that high is just unusable.

Offline AlleyViper

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 21:44:32 »
Quote from: Brodie337;405198
In practice, DPI of more than about 3000-4000 is simply a waste of time. I've got a 5700 DPI Logitech, and I've got to say, with the Windows mouse sensitivity set to the middle, and the mouse acceleration fix (1:1 control), anything that high is just unusable.

OT:Sometimes it's better safe than sorry! I have a IME 3.0 X06 since it came out, and it's 400dpi just don't cut it anymore in a wide display as I have to double it's speed (2 windows notches) for the very least, and any pixel precision is lost. Next and due to similar shape (and some crap in between like a LM 6000, for a 1000dpi fix), I went for a 1800dpi deathadder which I still use, but at the time on a 1680x1050 and 1:1 was OK, but now under a slightly larger 1080p, I'm finding it a tad slow, so a more recent 3500dpi would suit me better for the same speed (about an inch to run the monitor horizontally). But these are mainstream desktop resolutions, and a well made 5700dpi (provided you don't switch mice often) might survive the next resolution jump way better than a 3500, this is if you're not already using a multi-monitor setup or big screen and wish to avoid raising/moving your lower arm too much. The downside of this, is also the need of decent feet and mat to tame cursor movement, which becomes critical at high sens'.
As notebook and netbooks are getting better dpi, the OS are returning to Teletubbie interfaces. The pixel dependent buttons and icons you hit with the mouse are growing a lot too, making it easier to deal with higher mouse sensitivity.
Of course, one can completely discard this comment if they have a preference for mouse acceleration, or using medium/low sensitivity.
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 August 2011, 21:55:47 by AlleyViper »

Offline Chobopants

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 25 August 2011, 21:56:54 »
Quote from: AlleyViper;405254
OT:Sometimes it's better safe than sorry! I have a IME 3.0 X06 since it came out, and it's 400dpi just don't cut it anymore in a wide display as I have to double it's speed (2 windows notches) for the very least, and any pixel precision is lost. Next and due to similar shape (and some crap in between like a LM 6000, for a 1000dpi fix), I went for a 1800dpi deathadder which I still use, but at the time on a 1680x1050 and 1:1 was OK, but now under a slightly larger 1080p, I'm finding it a tad slow, so a more recent 3500dpi would suit me better for the same speed (about an inch to run the monitor horizontally). But these are mainstream desktop resolutions, and a well made 5700dpi (provided you don't switch mouse often) might survive the next resolution jump way better than a 3500, this is if you're not already using a multi-monitor setup or big screen and wish to avoid raising/moving your lower arm too much.
As notebook and netbooks are getting better dpi, the OS are returning to Teletubbie interfaces. The pixel dependent buttons and icons you hit with the mouse are growing a lot too.

I use 1200dpi with my 5600dpi Lachesis. More than 3000, even for high dpi players, just seems pretty silly to me.
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Offline Brodie337

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 00:37:00 »
Quote from: AlleyViper;405254
OT:Sometimes it's better safe than sorry! I have a IME 3.0 X06 since it came out, and it's 400dpi just don't cut it anymore in a wide display as I have to double it's speed (2 windows notches) for the very least, and any pixel precision is lost. Next and due to similar shape (and some crap in between like a LM 6000, for a 1000dpi fix), I went for a 1800dpi deathadder which I still use, but at the time on a 1680x1050 and 1:1 was OK, but now under a slightly larger 1080p, I'm finding it a tad slow, so a more recent 3500dpi would suit me better for the same speed (about an inch to run the monitor horizontally). But these are mainstream desktop resolutions, and a well made 5700dpi (provided you don't switch mice often) might survive the next resolution jump way better than a 3500, this is if you're not already using a multi-monitor setup or big screen and wish to avoid raising/moving your lower arm too much. The downside of this, is also the need of decent feet and mat to tame cursor movement, which becomes critical at high sens'.
As notebook and netbooks are getting better dpi, the OS are returning to Teletubbie interfaces. The pixel dependent buttons and icons you hit with the mouse are growing a lot too, making it easier to deal with higher mouse sensitivity.
Of course, one can completely discard this comment if they have a preference for mouse acceleration, or using medium/low sensitivity.

Even across three 1920x1200 monitors, I can't use more than about 3000DPI. It's just too much to be comfortably controllable. Unfortunately DPI has become the most marketable thing about a mouse, usually to the detriment of other, more useful features.


EDIT: Excuse me if that made no sense at all. The medication I'm on makes me all "Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"
« Last Edit: Fri, 26 August 2011, 00:40:45 by Brodie337 »

Offline vun

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 07:59:55 »
Quote from: Chobopants;405267
I use 1200dpi with my 5600dpi Lachesis. More than 3000, even for high dpi players, just seems pretty silly to me.
I use 5700 dpi on my G9x, and I would on my Mamba as well but that sets its own dpi down to about 1600 by itself for some reason.
Though I adjust the Windows and in-game sensitivity to match the speeds when I used lower dpi. So I could just have stuck with the lower dpi, but this feels a bit smoother to me.

Offline AlleyViper

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 09:21:19 »
@Chobopants
For players and more often for FPS, tracking, acceleration response and smoothness is way more important than dpi. Given a decent amount like your preferred 1200dpi to move POV, fine tracking might be better or even less prone to noise than higher settings. Some mice just don't respond so well when high dpi is kept at the maximum if mouse sensitivity is decreased via software - I don't know how it goes with recent mice, but this was the norm years ago. My post was solely about large desktop use and fast cursor movement needs, gaming is completely different.

@Brodie337
Thanks for pointing that (the monitors, of course!), if 3x1920px at ~3000dpi seems about the limit for you while I find 1800dpi ideal for only 1x1680px. It tells a lot about our different speed preferences. My assumption was based on keeping an approximate finger/palm only movement for fine control while upping resolution, discarding mouse speed as a constant. For anyone that already moves his forearm more than often and doesn't keep a fixed wrist,  it's of course better to stick to his preferred 1:1 cursor speed, independently of screen size, or just raising it a bit if the extra movement becomes uncomfortable in the edges.

Offline Chobopants

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 09:59:14 »
Quote from: AlleyViper;405433
@Chobopants
For players and more often for FPS, tracking, acceleration response and smoothness is way more important than dpi. Given a decent amount like your preferred 1200dpi to move POV, fine tracking might be better or even less prone to noise than higher settings. Some mice just don't respond so well when high dpi is kept at the maximum if mouse sensitivity is decreased via software - I don't know how it goes with recent mice, but this was the norm years ago. My post was solely about large desktop use and fast cursor movement needs, gaming is completely different.

Gotcha. I'm ~90% coding on a single 1920x1200 monitor at work and then 10% gaming/chilling at home with a 1920x1200 main monitor and 1440x900 side monitor. Wish it was closer to 30% gaming but you know...life.

Anyway, might just be my FPS background (I'm all RTS these days though with a little TF2 when I need to shoot someone) but I like accurate predictable mouse movement, even when I'm moving across multiple monitors.

Since most of my mousing is either clicking on UI elements/text fields (coding) or clicking on tiny little units (StarCraft) high dpi just doesn't work for me. Oh well.

Xai should be here in a couple hours, excited!
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 11:06:12 »
In my case, SC2 is the most important determining factor. I tend to have a fixed wrist but I'm experimenting with the 1:1 ratio right now (no enhanced pointer precision, accelaration reg fix, 6/11 in Windows and 51% in the game). Thus I can't make my whiz moves any more but my overall accuracy may be improving and at any rate I do feel I have more control of the pointer now. Apparently, the mouse dpi setting makes much less difference now than it did with accelaration on. Much lower dpis are now playable than used to be, although still not ideal. Using either 2400 or 3200 (anything > 1600 on my mouse is interpolated, though). I can set dpi manually to 1920*1080 but regular 2400 or 3200 seems better.

To put things pragmatically, what I want to get is:
— sensor always awake,
— no over or under-shooting,
— good ability to micro units, including small units (at work: hit the exact character to begin highlighting),
— no mouse slipping from my hand,
— no numbing pains, stiffening etc. that harm control in addition to simply causing pain (which is not as bad as the thought of what damage is being done and what stuff's going to look like in 30 years from now).

At the end of the day I don't care whatever parameters that mouse has (but preferably no Microsoft or Razer logo). It can be a ball mouse if it does the job. (In fact, it'd be preferred if only it could because I've used ball mice most of my PC life. :P)

The bad thing is I have to make my decision without being able to take it in my hand and try. In this city you just can't, except for the typical galore of office mice and occasional 518 from Logitech but no gaming stuff. This is why I'm so undecided and overanalysing stuff all the time. I can afford a gaming mouse but I can't afford five of them.

Offline Chobopants

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 12:36:42 »
Having only used my Xai for about an hour so far I can only say amazing things. From the LCD configuration (perfect for a Mac user) to the smoothness and accuracy of the mouse it really feels like a distinct upgrade from my Lachesis.
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 14:08:22 »
Quote from: Chobopants;405533
Having only used my Xai for about an hour so far I can only say amazing things. From the LCD configuration (perfect for a Mac user) to the smoothness and accuracy of the mouse it really feels like a distinct upgrade from my Lachesis.

Interesting in the light of the fact that the Lachesis is probably a newer product, given the dpi difference (5040 on Xai).

How big are your hands? (Mine are 21 cm long palm, 9 cm wide, 13 cm on the middle finger, around 12 on both index and ring.) How comfortable are you fingertip gripping and palm gripping? Can claw grip be pulled off over a longed period of time without significant discomfort?

Offline Chobopants

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 15:07:58 »
I think the difference in feel is just different laser and interpretation hardware. This feels WAY better than the Lachesis. It's feels REALLY smooth and accurate whereas with the Lachesis it always felt kind of...off. I never felt like I had full control over the cursor unlike now. Since I only use around 1200dpi I don't really notice the difference on the high end. I keep all my software settings at zero acceleration/interpolation and adjust speed only through dpi.

I don't really have anything around here to measure the size of my hands but they're medium sized I guess? A little thicker because of gymnastics/rock climbing so they're decently built up. I'm 5'6" tall and my hands are pretty proportional so I guess my fingers are probably a little on the short side overall.

I default to claw grip with just a little palm support sometimes. With the Lachesis I was 100% claw grip all the time. Never felt fatigue but also never felt that accurate. With the Xai I go to pure claw when I'm doing a lot of small accurate movements and then slide my fingers down and palm it a bit more when I'm just in casual web browsing mode, which is super comfortable! This is how I used to use my old Intellimouse 1.1 and I haven't experienced this comfort since then.

Thus far I'm giving the mouse an A- because the scrollwheel is pretty ****ty but will reserve final judgement until after I RMA it if this problem doesn't go away.
Realforce 87UW 45g - Filco Blue 87 - Filco Linear R - Filco Brown 104

Offline Brodie337

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 17:15:30 »
Another budget option is the G500. People say that it has positive acceleration, but I've got the G700 (Same sensor), and I'll be damned if I can feel it, even in comparison to my acceleration free Deathadder. The G500 also has the free scrolling that many other Logitech mice have,

Offline TheProfosist

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 26 August 2011, 20:07:56 »
just got myself a G700 it ended up being the mouse i wish i always existed but didnt until now

Offline Brodie337

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 00:02:09 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;405724
just got myself a G700 it ended up being the mouse i wish i always existed but didnt until now


Battery life aside, I dearly love my G700. I couldn't ask for more from a mouse.

Offline TheProfosist

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 27 August 2011, 02:54:04 »
Quote from: Brodie337;405833
Battery life aside, I dearly love my G700. I couldn't ask for more from a mouse.
i fixed that really easily just bout a set of eneloop rechargeable batteries and will just swap out batteries as needed i ordered the set with the charger their available on amazon make sure u get the newer version as they have higher mah and number of recharges

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 31 August 2011, 11:34:06 »
Been to a shop today where there were tons of mice available for gripping, although not the gaming models.

It seems Logitech G9X is out of the question, as are any higher-end Logitechs. On the other hand, the cheapest M90 feels almost ideal in terms of how it lies in the hand. NOT the M310 and the whole gaming line based on the similar form-factor. (I'm talking about my own experience with my big hands and long fingers, I realise some people love the mice and I'm happy they work for them. I don't mean to criticise or anything. :))

Also such cheap oldschool A4techs like this: http://www.a4tech.com/product.asp?cid=1&scid=115&id=326 (they actually resemble my ever-favourite ball mouse of old that was an A4tech)

The problem is only the low DPI (800, 1000 if you find a laser version but haven't seen them outside A4tech's website)and poor quality of buttons.

It's a shame nobody makes a decent DPI gaming mouse in that lovely form factor.

Also, this looked very good from my point of view on ergonomics: http://store.razerzone.com/store/razerusa/en_US/pd/productID.199816600/parentCategoryID.43736600/categoryId.43736700

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need simple but good and RSI-friendly mouse for RTS gaming
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 01 September 2011, 14:03:22 »
I was feeling like I was run over by a track today morning, so when I finally got myself together, I decided to take a stroll and paw the mice a bit at the local hypermarket cluster. I took everything in hand, including stuff that needed to be taken out of a box but my attention was caught by a little thingy that was, regrettably, wireless. But it had nice ergonomics from my point of view and the keys were good, unlike many cheap mouse that don't follow the old-school design. Turned out the thing wasn't wireless, it simply had retractable cable with a nice little compartment for the plug inside the mouse casing. It was the last item they had. They sold it to me from the exhibition for like 40% of the stated price. So it's basically a mini laser mouse for a laptop, with 1200 dpi but runs faster than my optical at the same resolution, I think.

Here's what it looks like, for reference: http://www.maxtech.pl/produkt/2932/Mysz_Ngs_Blade_Notebook/

I think a claw gripper would kill for this mouse (myself, I don't use that grip much) and even some sort of odd palm grip is viable (where you activate the buttons with almost the base of your fingers). Fingertip grip is kinda cool, although the mouse could be slightly bigger. The cable is marvellous at being non-annoying. Gonna report back when I've given it some testing at SC2. What's annoying is the wheel but I've seen worse.