The Secret World of Arrietty

[reaper]

Any other Hayao Miyazaki fan here beside ripster?  Anyway, it's coming out on February 17 and the only complain I have is voice-dubbing.  I always like the sub version better (DVD/BD).

[video=youtube;Vp2nb9Vq0yY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp2nb9Vq0yY[/video]

[cactux]

I prefer snow white

[hashbaz]

I'm excited to see this.  I'm a big Miyazaki fan (even got to ask him something at a Q&A once).  And yeah, I like hearing the Japanese dialog too, though the later dubs done through Disney have been really good.

[reaper]

I prefer snow white

Heh, go check out "Princess Mononoke" and "Spirited Away" first and come back and tell us what you think. =P

I'm excited to see this.  I'm a big Miyazaki fan (even got to ask him something at a Q&A once).  And yeah, I like hearing the Japanese dialog too, though the later dubs done through Disney have been really good.

Yeah, the last one I saw with dubs was "Spirited Away" and I guess that wasn't so bad.

[hashbaz]

Princess Mononoke is bad ass.

[reaper]

^ One of my all-time favorites right there.

[Lanx]

good god voice dubbing hasn't gotten any better in 15 years huh, why can't these ppl figure out that they shouldn't emulate japanese ppl and just have your spin on it. This is the reason why i bought 2 ff xiii, yes the game was horrible to listen to, but... if you buy the chinese version it is english menu/subtitles and you get japanese.

now i'm gonna have to do the same thing for ff xiii-2 cuz the fiance' can't wait to play it.

btw i'm complaining cuz there's really no way to get japanese voices in a video game, whereas in a movie/tvseries you can just select japanese audio/english subtitles.

[hashbaz]

good god voice dubbing hasn't gotten any better in 15 years huh, why can't these ppl figure out that they shouldn't emulate japanese ppl and just have your spin on it.

Eh?  Are you talking about the Arrietty trailer?  What about the voice acting emulates Japanese people?

[Lanx]

it's voice dubbing, i cannot say these ppl are acting, they just try to emulate a japanese person cuz they know that the source material is japanese, rather than just being real voice actors. Heck don't get me wrong, anime dubbed correctly is awesome, but this was only the case in 1984
Peter Cullen
Frank Welker

They have real talent in voice acting, not this current generation of voice dubbers.

[hashbaz]

I still don't know what you're talking about.  What specifically about the way the actors in the Arrietty trailer perform makes you feel like they are imitating Japanese?

[keyboardlover]

I like Miyazaki...I've seen Mononoke, Howl's Moving Castle and Spirited Away. ALL good films.

[OkGold]

What a great film! saw it a while back when it came out on DVD in nippon, the voice acting for the English dub trailer was embarrassing, and made the movie seem really odd. That said, if the dub is your only option, i'd still go out and enjoy this film, the animation is fabulous, smoother than any other Ghibli i've enjoyed.

[Spharx]

Pretty much every Studio Ghibli animation film is superb. Also you should consider to watch the work of René Laloux. Here are some quite good animation films too:click
Try to out Kanashimi no Belladonna and The Secret of Kells

[Parabellum]

You guys gotta be kidding me with this anime kiddo ****..

[keyboardlover]

They're good films. Watch one before you knock them.

[hashbaz]

Pretty much every Studio Ghibli animation film is superb. Also you should consider to watch the work of René Laloux. Here are some quite good animation films too:click
Try to out Kanashimi no Belladonna and The Secret of Kells

The Secret of Kells was awesome.  I was lucky enough to see that in a proper theater with the filmmakers present for Q&A afterward.  It's on Netflix streaming currently.

[hashbaz]

it's voice dubbing, i cannot say these ppl are acting, they just try to emulate a japanese person cuz they know that the source material is japanese

You guys gotta be kidding me with this anime kiddo ****..

The signal-to-troll ratio in this thread is surprisingly low.

[Lanx]

how am i trolling lol, i've watched more anime than 100 random GH'rs combined, i've been watching it since the 80's, my mom was grabbing me chinese dubs of MSG when i was 9, i started trading vhs of anime in junior high, and i lived in nyc, probably the best place to see anything rare, especially in elizabeth center in chinatown...

i'm sorry if you fail to understand why voice dubbing in 99% of all american anime is bad (since they use the same horribad dubbers like wendee lee), but if you just do not understand the subject, that's just on you.

[hashbaz]

how am i trolling lol, i've watched more anime than 100 random GH'rs combined, i've been watching it since the 80's, my mom was grabbing me chinese dubs of MSG when i was 9, i started trading vhs of anime in junior high, and i lived in nyc, probably the best place to see anything rare, especially in elizabeth center in chinatown...

i'm sorry if you fail to understand why voice dubbing in 99% of all american anime is bad (since they use the same horribad dubbers like wendee lee), but if you just do not understand the subject, that's just on you.

I said you were trolling because I've asked you to explain twice now and you just continue making loud assertions.  Also because since Spirited Away was released in the US, Disney has actually put a lot of money and effort into its dubs of Ghibli films.  Nobody here is talking about 99% of American anime except you apparently.

So, if you're not trolling, please do explain what you mean.  In the context of recent Ghibli films and the Arrietty trailer in particular (since that is what triggered your first post), in what sense are the voice actors "imitating Japanese people"?

[Lanx]

voice dubbers try to emulate the tone/pitch or whatever it is that is difficult to hear. If they would actually try to act instead of listening to a japanese voice sample then emulating it, it would sound like acting.

[vils]

I read Mary Nortons book about the borrowers as a child and liked them a lot. I'm really excited about seeing the Ghibli version. My daughter got hooked on Totoro when she was around one year old. Myself was hooked years earlier with Spirited away. I have seen most Ghibli films numerous times with the kids in trance. Simply amazing.

[hashbaz]

voice dubbers try to emulate the tone/pitch or whatever it is that is difficult to hear. If they would actually try to act instead of listening to a japanese voice sample then emulating it, it would sound like acting.

I guess I still don't get it.  The lines in the Arrietty trailer sound like normal spoken English to me.

[Lanx]

and i doubt you will, in GH terms it's really no different than trying to convince a rubber dome user to switch to mechanical, we all know mech boards are 99% superior to any run of the mill RD board, but some ppl just like crappy RD and we cannot (and really shouldn't) convince them otherwise.

[hashbaz]

You can stop being a condescending ass now, Lanx.  I don't watch a lot of anime, but I've been speaking English for decades.  Can you point to a line in the trailer that is characteristically Japanese in its intonation, rather than English?

[Lanx]

I'm just trying to relate to you in associative terms that we can understand, being that it's GH we'll i'm relating it in a way of mech keyboards, watch the trailer 43 seconds into it, that's when i clicked away... such horrible dubbing.

[bienc]

Thanks for bringing this up! I love Ghibli films and watch a lot of anime in general.

I generally dislike all dubbing attempts. There are a few exceptions, Baccano! being one where the dubbing is better than usual although I still prefer Japanese audio. I do not have sound at work to hear the clip, but I think where Lanx is coming from is when really bad dubs try to emulate the Japanese language in intonation and vocabulary.

Example: Watch Rurouni Kenshin in Japanese, then with English Dub. Kenshin uses a sort of suffix to many of his sentences, which I believe is along the lines of "[SENTENCE]-degozaru". There is no real English translation to that and they cover it up with "[SETENCE]-that it is". I mean, who would ever say that in English?

Again, I cannot hear the audio yet so I can't give an example from the video linked, but this is what Lanx is trying to say about English Dub vs. Original Japanese.

EDIT: I also think that in some English dubs, the voice actors are so horrible that it completely changes how a character is conveyed and felt.

[hashbaz]

Again, I cannot hear the audio yet so I can't give an example from the video linked, but this is what Lanx is trying to say about English Dub vs. Original Japanese.

I'd be interested to hear your take on this when you can hear the audio.

[bienc]

I'd be interested to hear your take on this when you can hear the audio.

I will hop on when I get home.

There has always been a huge debate in the anime world about dub vs. sub. There are extreme proponents for both, some who don't care. I really believe that it's whatever the person was exposed to first.

Another example: Dragon Ball Z. This is an anime MANY are familiar with. The English dub doesn't sound bad, since a lot of people have watched it when they were kids. When listening to the Japanese audio, Goku can sound like a squealing pig when shouting. The Japanese voice actor is actually a lady (there are a few very famous female voice actors that play mainly male roles - the voice actor for Kenshin was also female) which explains some of the crazy high pitch shouting. In normal speaking, Goku is pretty ok. I think that Japanese voice actors are superior in expressing and conveying emotion and their character - though this is personal opinion. Again, I will try to get examples when I get home. US studios that dub in English usually have the same actors they recycle for all sorts of different series and crank out the same lackluster performances. Studio Ghibli has gotten good about their dubbing, but I haven't given them a chance.

As a long-time anime fan that has been watching in Japanese for around 10 years, it's hard to get into the groove of English dub. I have grown so accustomed to watching in Japanese with English subtitles that I watch ALL movies like that, even ones in English. It's hard for me to pay attention without them.

[Lanx]

voice dubbing of japanese characters is horribad, but like bienc has expressed better it's cuz those voice dubbers try to emulate japanese, which is horribad. A good example of great voice acting (besides peter cullen and frank welker)
i mean contrast this iconic scene of cullen vs. welker
[video=youtube;GXG_zG2SEaw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXG_zG2SEaw[/video]
vs. some japanese dudes
[video=youtube;-YMmm9DIISg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YMmm9DIISg[/video]

good female? would have to be jennifer hale, she's done bastilla shan (KOTOR) and female shepard of mass effect, i mean her voice acting is so much superior to the guys acting i played a female cuz her voice was so great, (which we'll see soon in mass effect 3).

point is, just tell these voice actors to act, don't emulate japanese.

[cactux]

Heh, go check out "Princess Mononoke" and "Spirited Away" first and come back and tell us what you think.

too much blood ;-)

[hashbaz]

point is, just tell these voice actors to act, don't emulate japanese.

I still don't understand what you mean by this.  Can you point out a line and tell me how it emulates Japanese?

[bienc]

too much blood ;-)

Princess Mononoke has the blood, Spirited Away has none. Also Howl's Moving Castle =P

[Lanx]

i said in a previous post, start at the 43second mark, when the boy finds them and starts to talk... i just heard 1 line and didn't (couldn't) bear to watch any more. Again it's like the difference between RD and mech boards, if you just can't tell the difference, can't force it.

[hashbaz]

i said in a previous post, start at the 43second mark, when the boy finds them and starts to talk... i just heard 1 line and didn't (couldn't) bear to watch any more. Again it's like the difference between RD and mech boards, if you just can't tell the difference, can't force it.

I looked at that.  You're still just stating that it's horrible without saying why.  I'm willing to be convinced.  I'll give you that the boy's performance in the trailer is pretty flat and boring, but how is it emulating Japanese?  What about the other characters?  The main character Arrietty sounds very American.

[bienc]

If you can find the Japanese trailer, watch it and compare the voice acting. See which you think better conveys the character through their voice.

[NguyenAdam]

I watched it when they released the subtitles. Its a pretty good movie. Well worth the watch.

[slueth]

hah thats not borrowing, thats basically theivery The Stealers!

[bienc]

So after watching the official English trailer and the Japanese one, there isn't much to compare to because they use completely different scenes except one, and there's not a lot to compare there either. For the most part, the dubbing seems to be very well done except for the part played by the boy. The voice is a bit more manly and airy/whispy than the Japanese version and doesn't fit (IMO).

Here's video examples of really bad English dub. It's from the anime Code Geass. If you don't mind some mild spoilers, go on to the links I provide. It's a very good anime and I recommend EVERYONE watch it. One of my top favorites.

Anyway just a little background. The main character has taken a lot of people hostage in a very public place and is about to announce that he is the killer of a Prince of Britannia instead of the person that the officials have arrested. You can turn on the subtitles using the CC button to get exactly what they're saying.  Please listen to how the main character in the mask conveys himself. He talks with confidence and bravado because he is in control of the situation.
Japanese version @ 17 minutes.

Same scene in English @ 17 minutes.

Do you hear a difference in character portrayal?

[PixelVandalism]

I really enjoyed this movie with subs, I'll have to watch it again when it comes out dubbed.

[hashbaz]

So after watching the official English trailer and the Japanese one, there isn't much to compare to because they use completely different scenes except one, and there's not a lot to compare there either. For the most part, the dubbing seems to be very well done except for the part played by the boy. The voice is a bit more manly and airy/whispy than the Japanese version and doesn't fit (IMO).

Here's video examples of really bad English dub. It's from the anime Code Geass. If you don't mind some mild spoilers, go on to the links I provide. It's a very good anime and I recommend EVERYONE watch it. One of my top favorites.

Anyway just a little background. The main character has taken a lot of people hostage in a very public place and is about to announce that he is the killer of a Prince of Britannia instead of the person that the officials have arrested. You can turn on the subtitles using the CC button to get exactly what they're saying.  Please listen to how the main character in the mask conveys himself. He talks with confidence and bravado because he is in control of the situation.
Japanese version @ 17 minutes.

Same scene in English @ 17 minutes.

Do you hear a difference in character portrayal?

Now I'm the one who can't hear audio at work, since I forgot to bring my headphones in today. :-|

I'll listen tonight, but I have no doubt that you're right.  And yeah, the voice actor playing the boy in the Japanese version of Arrietty sounds much, much less annoying.

[bienc]

It's not just the main character either in that scene. If you watch about a minute or so from the 17min mark, many people have lines and if you compare them to the English dub, you'll see where dubbing can go horribly wrong.

Again, it is a personal preference to watch anime in Japanese with English subs or with English dubs. Some animes (I should say anime studios/publishers though) get it right and spend the time, money and energy to make great dubs. It is my personal opinion that Japanese voice actors are much better at what they do because it's such a prevalent business there that there's a lot of competition, thus giving a better product at the end compared to English dubs.

[SidusNare]

Hayao Miyazaki is awesome, Howl's Moving Castle is a great example of his work, and the only thing of his on Netflix streaming if you have it, take a look.

[reaper]

^ Thanks for reminding me.. just finished watching Howl's Moving Castle for the 10000000000th time. lol  Too bad they only have that one title on streaming.  I don't know why they don't stream Spirited Away which they also have.

[TopazPie]

I don't really like anime, but I gave these movies a shot. They are fantastic! Absolutely love them. The voice acting is so original too. Also I have no idea what lanx is talking about. In anime I saw the emulation and didn't like it further, but in these movies it feels original.

[tsangan]

Miyazaki fan here too, but I like his old work a lot more, like Laputa, Nausicaa, Totoro.

[Lanx]

I don't really like anime, but I gave these movies a shot. They are fantastic! Absolutely love them. The voice acting is so original too. Also I have no idea what lanx is talking about. In anime I saw the emulation and didn't like it further, but in these movies it feels original.

To each his/her own intonation, accents, whatever i find most ppl have problems distinquishing.

I mean i have a story on accents, or "assumed accents" i grew up in Brooklyn and while i wished i was born with a sean connery deep voice, mine is rather high pitched, anyway i was the MT or main tank, raid leader of my guild, we'd use teamspeak to communicate. Now i talked everyday for 4-5hours a night constantly i was chattering while raiding and giving instructions, heck the weekend i'd talk for 8-12 hours straight, my fiance' would never talk, since i talked enough. Basically what i'm saying is that these 30 odd ppl heard my voice for at least 30 hours a week sometimes 40.

6months into this, my guild gets all racial and go "those stupid chinese gold farmers, i hate the chinese, they (more racial blathering)". my fiance' get's on mic and say's what's wrong with chinese ppl? you know we're both chinese. And aside from like 2 ppl who know cuz they asked her and talked to her lots (i didn't socialize with anyone, just everyone really), all 30 ppl were aghast that the one guy leading them to victory (cuz we were the top guild) and the main healer (my fiance') were not white. They just heard my voice and assumed i was some high pitched white guy. Course then we got a slew of "oh that's why you both are so good at video games"...

[bienc]

Miyazaki fan here too, but I like his old work a lot more, like Laputa, Nausicaa, Totoro.

Nausicaa and Laputa are amazing. I think Nausicaa may be my favorite overall. I have yet to watch Porco Rosso though, people say that's his best/people's most favorite. Totoro was extremely nostalgic for me because all I remember was the Cat Bus when I was younger. When I stumbled on the movie again, it was amazing. Miyazaki films really capture youth and emotion very well.

[DanGWanG]

Just watched this movie.  Great stuff.  I still liked Spirited Away the most

[reaper]

I've seen a few of them online.  Japanese w/ Chinese subs.

[DanGWanG]

Watched it streaming online in Japanese with English subs...thank goodness for anime fans