Author Topic: So...I tried to like Clears (Read 7473 times)

jdcarpe · « **on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 20:06:26 »

Is something wrong with me? I have tried every Cherry MX switch type, from Blacks, to Reds, to Blues, to "ghetto" Greens, to Clears, to "Ergo" Clears, and yet Browns are my favorite. I love the way typing on Browns feels. Everyone is crazy about Clears and Ergo Clears and Reds, but I can't use any of those. I even give them some time. It took a week for me to learn to love Browns, and oh how I do love me some Browns now. Topre are okay, I guess, but it just reminds me of my old rubber domes. I guess Blues are okay, also, but they are loud as hell. I prefer the sound of buckling springs to the sound that MX Blues make.

Maybe if there were a spring slightly heavier than the Brown/Blue/Red springs and slightly lighter than the Black springs, that I could use with the Clear stems. Don't the Koreans have some 52g springs like that?

So I guess I'm just weird. But I'm sticking with my MX Browns for now.

daerid · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 20:34:04 »

I can't stand reds for typing. You gotta have some tactility. Browns are the sweet spot for Cherrys, definitely. But totally disagree on the Topre. They feel completely different from standard rubber domes. I really, really wanna try the 55g tho.

WRXChris · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 20:42:30 »

I got a clear donor board in the mail today, and am just about to get started modding one of my brown filcos to ergo clears. If only I had a Hakko 808 for the desoldering

I'll post my impressions here when I'm done!

Reptile · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 20:42:33 »

Quote from: daerid;604292

I can't stand reds for typing. You gotta have some tactility. Browns are the sweet spot for Cherrys, definitely. But totally disagree on the Topre. They feel completely different from standard rubber domes. I really, really wanna try the 55g tho.

I'll trade you for a week. Debating on getting a 45gram or another 55gram for work :-)

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 20:49:12 »

I gave clears a fair shake, and I didn't really see the big deal but they are better than browns by a lot to me. I didn't care for the weight, but ergo felt wrong too, then I tried with black springs not bad. I hate browns, they are a compromise switch good at nothing. Blues are where it's at for tactile switch, they have the best feeling for me.
I love reds for typing and they are my favorite switch overall. I have no need for tactility. I can see when the character is appearing on the screen.
Good thing Cherry makes all these different switch for our preferences.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 22:08:00 »

Yes, something is wrong with you.

Just kidding. Clears aren't for everyone, and browns are very popular.

You are totally normal. Aside from being a Geekhack member of course.

sth · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 22:08:15 »

Quote from: Raging Salmon;604275

I'm very much fascinated by people who prefer Browns over Reds.

That's... uh... really weird... that you're so interested. Creepy, even.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 22:10:19 »

Quote from: Raging Salmon;604275

I'm very much fascinated by people who prefer Browns over Reds.

I'll have to report how I feel once I get my KMAC LE with browns. I haven't tried plate-mounted browns in a while and while I liked reds, I didn't like them enough to stick with them. I plan to do a review once I get it.

funxion · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 22:48:08 »

I haven't tried other switches yet, but I don't need to. Browns feel perfect to me and even though I wasn't really looking for anything in particular when I first browsed for a mechanical keyboard, they satisfy what I would've asked for if I had used mechanical switches prior to my current keyboard.

There's not much tactility to them, but just enough to know when you hit the actuation point. I don't think I could deal with reds or blacks after using browns to be honest. I would be willing to give clears a shot if they came on a board I was buying, but seeing as though that doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon, only time will tell!

jdcarpe · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 22:48:13 »

Quote from: keyboardlover;604362

I'll have to report how I feel once I get my KMAC LE with browns. I haven't tried plate-mounted browns in a while and while I liked reds, I didn't like them enough to stick with them. I plan to do a review once I get it.

If it gives you a bad feeling, let me know. I'll test it for you.

smknjoe · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 23:02:47 »

You don't think the clears are like browns with stiffer springs and slightly less tactile? Topres are very exceptional RDs (emphasis on RDs.) I still like them though...that's what I keep telling myself...

I'm with you though. I still haven't found the sweet spot.

funxion · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 23:05:05 »

I'm not sure if asking owners of Topre keyboards with price tags of $250+ for their opinions of Topre switches is the best idea.

I know I sure as hell would be loving it regardless of how it felt if it was $250+...

jdcarpe · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 23:09:38 »

I didn't like Ergo Clears at all, but that may be because I was using them in a PCB mount board, the Poker. Felt wobbly. I then installed springs from Blacks in place of the light springs. It's more usable now, but they feel just very slightly too heavy. Maybe if I could get some of those 52g springs to try, that might be the sweet spot. I like the increased tactility of the Clear stems over the Brown ones, but not enough to switch from Browns unless I can get some springs that feel good with them.

smknjoe · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 23:14:45 »

I didn't ask about Topres - I asked about clears. I'm typing on my HHKB Pro 2 now. That's why I keep trying to tell myself it was worth $300 + and I also own a board with clears. I have tried all of the commercially available Cherrys (and prefer blues if you want to know.)

...you might not if you dislike rubber domes.

smknjoe · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 23:18:09 »

Quote from: jdcarpe;604390

I didn't like Ergo Clears at all, but that may be because I was using them in a PCB mount board, the Poker. Felt wobbly. I then installed springs from Blacks in place of the light springs. It's more usable now, but they feel just very slightly too heavy. Maybe if I could get some of those 52g springs to try, that might be the sweet spot. I like the increased tactility of the Clear stems over the Brown ones, but not enough to switch from Browns unless I can get some springs that feel good with them.

I personally think the straight clear's tactility is very close to brown's. Maybe even slightly less. Am I the only one who thinks that?

WRXChris · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 30 May 2012, 23:32:06 »

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 51896[/ATTACH]

Making progress! I agree with jdcarpe; ergo clears feel better plate mounted. I threw a couple clear stems on one of my pokers to see how it would feel before starting in on the filco, and I didn't really like it, it seemed like I could feel the PCB wobble in the tactility zone of the keypress (hope that makes sense!). I just threw some caps on the filco to see how it feels and it's definitely much better than on the Poker. I'm excited to see how it feels as a whole!

WRXChris · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 31 May 2012, 15:49:08 »

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 51925[/ATTACH]

All done!! Would have finished last night but my cheapo desoldering pump broke. I haven't gotten a full set of caps on it yet, but I did throw a few on last night to see how it feels, and I think I'm really going to like ergo clears.

I used a standard clear spring for the spacebar. Well, I'm really excited now, time to throw some caps on it and reap the rewards of my hard work!

keyboardlover · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 31 May 2012, 15:53:44 »

Congrats! I love ergo clears.

kalrykh · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 31 May 2012, 16:14:06 »

Yeah, I guess you could say Topre owners force themselves to like them because they spent so much money on them...Then again, I've had four topres. If I truthfully didn't like them, I would have stopped at one.

1391401 · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 31 May 2012, 19:05:29 »

Did you try and use them for everything? I found I only liked clears for typing - everything else had to be blues.

hamza_tm · « **Reply #20 on:** Sun, 03 June 2012, 06:05:41 »

Quote from: Raging Salmon;604275

I'm very much fascinated by people who prefer Browns over Reds.

A strange fascination, I myself happen to be fascinated by people who prefer Reds over Browns.

The light but noticeable starting resistance of browns provides a very enjoyable tactile feel compared to the zero resistance of reds.

JaccoW · « **Reply #21 on:** Mon, 04 June 2012, 12:29:52 »

I am used to clears and have tried browns now for a while and couldn't get used to them. I was always bottoming out on them (but I do that on clears too).
So I ordered the exact same board with clears in white and try that when they arrive.

The upside on browns however is that they become very quiet when used with o-rings.

Lanx · « **Reply #22 on:** Mon, 04 June 2012, 13:12:25 »

i think this preference depends on the "amount" of button presses. I have ergowhites on my a-z cluster cuz they're great for touch typing, and i have browns on modifiers and since i cherry modded my mouse, i have browns on the left and red for the right buttons, cuz of all the super mouse presses, it gets "tiring" clicking with a white than brown stem. (i bottomed out on reds with left click too much)

Panoptic · « **Reply #23 on:** Mon, 04 June 2012, 13:46:57 »

I've got a Filco with Browns and a Leopold with Clears, and I find that after a week of use on either board, the other becomes too light/heavy for me. What I'd like is something in between - lighter than the Clears but a bit heavier than the Browns. I'm considering a Black spring swap on the Clears board. Also, the wide keys on the Clears board squeak a lot.

I'm also considering getting a Black and Blue board and swapping them to Ghetto Reds and Ghetto Greens - I've never actually tried a Black or Red board, so hey, I might just like them straight up.

Honestly though, I use a Keytronic E06101P2NP at work and the weight feels about perfect, but it obviously doesn't feel as crisp as a true mechanical.

Either way, I'm going to nab a Leopold with Blacks while they're cheap at EK. Argh.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon, 04 June 2012, 15:07:30 »

Quote from: Panoptic;607333

I've got a Filco with Browns and a Leopold with Clears, and I find that after a week of use on either board, the other becomes too light/heavy for me. What I'd like is something in between - lighter than the Clears but a bit heavier than the Browns. I'm considering a Black spring swap on the Clears board.

I don't think you'll be satisfied with the Black springs inside the Clears. They are just about the same as straight clears. I don't really think there's any difference. I am looking for that "magic" in-between resistance, as well.

Quote from: Panoptic

Also, the wide keys on the Clears board squeak a lot.

Yeah, Cherry stabilizers are notorious for squeaking. But then again some people say Costar ones squeak. I can only tell you that the Costar stabilizers on NOT ONE of my Filcos squeak. But the stabilizers on this Pure I am using (Cherry) squeak quite a bit.

Ahlitah · « **Reply #25 on:** Tue, 05 June 2012, 15:20:02 »

Just got the Leopold with Clears today!

They feel alot like Blacks with 0-rings installed, because of reduced key travel compared to just Blacks.

I'm not sure I like them. I was not a fan of the reduced key travel when I installed o-rings before on other switchs. the clears seem to have less key travel without any dampening rings!

jdcarpe · « **Reply #26 on:** Tue, 05 June 2012, 15:24:59 »

Quote from: Ahlitah;608034

the clears seem to have less key travel without any dampening rings!

That's because it's simply harder to bottom out with Clears, due to the heavy spring AND large tactile bump.

I'm going to give Clears another go. I'm going to mod my G80-2551 to 100% Clears and give that a try. If it doesn't work out after a couple weeks, I will mod it into a Browns board using the stems and springs from the G80-8113 I have coming. And the 8113 will become the Clears board.

Ahlitah · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 07 June 2012, 10:51:06 »

so after playing with Clears a few days.

I think I like them better then my Blues.

They also make my other Black keyboard feel more enjoyable to type on for some reason!

Now I need to find a Green switch kb to try!

o2dazone · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 07 June 2012, 10:52:34 »

well thats just like...your opinion, man

OrangeJewce · « **Reply #29 on:** Thu, 07 June 2012, 11:30:42 »

Quote from: Ahlitah;609169

so after playing with Clears a few days.

I think I like them better then my Blues.

They also make my other Black keyboard feel more enjoyable to type on for some reason!

Now I need to find a Green switch kb to try!

Not going to happen without you modding the switches yourself. "Ghetto" Green or otherwise. They just aren't a very popular switch

.

Cheers,

davkol · « **Reply #30 on:** Sat, 09 June 2012, 06:58:12 »

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AKIMbO · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat, 09 June 2012, 07:47:39 »

Buckling spring for typing & reds for gaming is my keyboard Nirvana.

Glissant · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 13 June 2012, 10:43:55 »

I have quick question for those of you that have clear stems with brown springs. Do you feel like the switch sort of "sticks" on the return? Compared to my browns I feel the clear stems a lot more on the return/release of the key. Maybe I am just feeling the key too much because it's new? I'll have to see how they feel with a little more usage, but right now they feel very strange.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 13 June 2012, 10:53:37 »

Yep, that's exactly the issue I have with Ergo Clears. Here's a quote I posted regarding Ergo Clears in another thread...

Quote from: rknize;612101

I think there would be a tolerance problem if they made them like we do. I find that they can be "sticky" for a while if the stems are new. A bit of lube helps, but when you crank out a billion of them they all need to work reliably.

Quote from: jdcarpe

Exactly. If you mod your own switch, and it sticks sometimes, you just go with it and tap it relentlessly until it smooths out. But if they came from the factory that way, everyone would want to RMA their boards as defective. I really think what ZF needs to produce is a switch between the brown and the clear. Spring resistance should be about 52cN, and the tactile bump would be more pronounced than on the brown stem, but less than on the clear/grey stem. To me, that would be ideal.

And, at least on the Poker, they feel "wobbly" to me.

MMB · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 13 June 2012, 11:56:31 »

Big difference between clears and ergo-clears. Ergo-clears are the quiet MX Blue, basically. So if you don't like the tactile bump on blues, you won't like ergo or regular clears.

Glissant · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 13 June 2012, 12:26:43 »

Thanks for making that perfectly clear, MagicMeatball. I can actually feel what I thought was the key sticking being the same as on the blues that I am currently typing on. Suddenly the ergo-clears feel a lot better. The mind is a beautiful thing.

Th3KAS · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 13 June 2012, 15:30:54 »

Is anyone aware of a vendor that produces/sells a keyboard with Clear switches apart from Deck and the sold-out Leopold from EK? I've been aching to try Clears for quite some time.

rhune · « **Reply #37 on:** Wed, 13 June 2012, 16:52:33 »

Quote from: Th3KAS;612858

Is anyone aware of a vendor that produces/sells a keyboard with Clear switches apart from Deck and the sold-out Leopold from EK? I've been aching to try Clears for quite some time.

Re-furbed Cherry POS keyboards with clears show up on eBay time to time.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cherry-Mechanical-PS2-Keyboard-MX-Clear-Touchpad-Programmable-N-Key-Rollover-G80-/221047052085?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item33776e5735

Bought one from this seller before in excellent condition. I never actually used it to type on though, only used it for parts...

Used it to convert my poker to ergo-clears. I liked them so much that I just bought a new Cherry G80-3000 to convert to ergo-clears to use at work!

JaccoW · « **Reply #38 on:** Thu, 14 June 2012, 06:27:36 »

Quote from: Raging Salmon;612928

If you like Clears buy switches while you can.

Rumor that they are EOL:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?32063-WASD-keyboards&p=612912&viewfull=1#post612912

That sounds bad. Fortunately I have a Deck Frost with clears and should be receiving a Keycool with clears today.

Glissant · « **Reply #39 on:** Thu, 14 June 2012, 18:22:24 »

I actually got my W and E keys to stick completely on the return today. Keep in mind it wasn't normal typing, it was me holding the return back with pressure from my finger. Quite interesting actually.

edit:
Another update. Almost all my ergo-clears are now working, except "C", that key will stick no matter what I do. And it sticks completely. Anybody have any idea why this happens?

Edit 2:
I'm going to get some lubrication to see if that will make them better.
After trying them for a while they feel a lot better, but I still think they could be better.

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Author Topic: So...I tried to like Clears (Read 7473 times)