Unicomp or Das?

[writer525]

Hi,

I'm the writer who posted a few days ago inquiring about a big, clacky keyboard ideal for pounding out word documents for hours on end. Several awesome, informative posters got back to me, and I'm very thankful for their advice. Basically, they narrowed my quest down to two keyboards: the Unicomp Spacesaver M and the Das Model S Professional for Mac.

So, I once again turn to your guys and your experiential wisdom. Is one...ehm...bigger than the other? Does the buckling spring action of the Unicomp feel better for long term writing/typing than the cherry-blues of the Das, or vice versa? Does one feel sturdier than the other to type on? Utimately: which, in your guys' experience, is preferred, and why?

I'm especially interested in the size of the key area – that is the key space with the letters, wherein typing specifically occurs, and I would prefer, between the two, the keyboard with the larger key area, if it exists.

Thanks, and appreciative of any help,

- writer525

[Roguemaster8]

I believe the Unicomp has slightly larger key area and I much enjoy typing on mine. For hours on end though the Unicomp might wear your hands out, I'm not sure how used to buckling springs you are. To me, blue switches just don't feel as smooth and solid as the springs in the Spacesaver. This is all opinion though, and everyone is different.

Honestly, the best thing is to just save up around $200, order both, and decide for yourself which one feels better. Our classifieds section is always getting combed by people looking for a new board to try when you decide which one you want to keep.

[Djuzuh]

Look at how buckling springs work, and how cherry mx blue work, and make your decision about what you prefer.

Most of your question are very personnal. Everyone in here has his favorite switch. So unless you get to try them both, everything we say is irrelevant, as you might have your personnel preference at the end.

But if you want to customize your keycaps, then it's a DAS you'll need.

[urbanus]

Does the buckling spring action of the Unicomp feel better for long term writing/typing than the cherry-blues of the Das, or vice versa? Does one feel sturdier than the other to type on?

Buckling spring is heavier than MX blue switches.  Not excessively, and not really any heavier than an average rubber dome, but a lot of people today are fans of the lighter 45g springs that you find in MX browns, blues and reds.

Buckling spring offers a much smoother typing experience IMHO.  I find MX blues somewhat jerky, especially on the upstroke.

In terms of sound, you will find that the Unicomp gives a nice little "snap" on each keystroke, in both the down and up directions.  MX blue is more of a "crunch" or "tick" sound, like typing on a bag of crisps.  I don't think one is significantly louder than the other, but the higher-pitched clicking of MX blue does tend to travel in a cubicle environment.

If you feel you really need a lighter switch, then MX blue might be your best choice.  Otherwise buckling spring is an excellent choice, providing a great key feel.

I'm especially interested in the size of the key area – that is the key space with the letters, wherein typing specifically occurs, and I would prefer, between the two, the keyboard with the larger key area, if it exists.

Both are 100% sized keyboards.

[urbanus]

But if you want to customize your keycaps, then it's a DAS you'll need.

Yes, true.

It's worth mentioning that Unicomp boards come with good quality dye sublimated keycaps -- much superior to the fairly average but perfectly acceptable caps that come with a Das.

Furthermore Unicomp keycaps are interchangeable with those of any salvaged model M; and Unicomp sells keycaps in a variety of colours with and without printing.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Given your word choice, i.e. "pounding out documents" and other such things I'd say go for the unicomp. It's as close to typing on a typewriter you can get without just doing so.

[writer525]

Hey guys,

Thanks -- very helpful and very appreciated. I think I'm ultimately going to wait a bit...simply because, if possible, I'd like to somehow test out one or even both of these key-board types (buckling spring and blue switches). This time window will allow funds to, hopefully, accumulate, making the prospect of ordering both keyboards more and more realistically viable, haha.

So, it's off to the flea markets and garage sales for some sort of buckling spring action and, with the blue switches, I don't know...maybe a serious gamer I know has one.

Thanks so much everybody,

- writer525

[1391401]

Have you thought about an MX Clear board?  I type a lot at home and at work and I don't think that the physical size of the keyboard really affects my comfort typing (although your opinion may vary) but rather the weight of the key.  I think MX Clear is probably the closest to the 'BS' experience without the clickyness.  There might be an 'MX Switch Tester' floating around these days where you can test all the switch types.  There's even a Topre one I believe.  Also, I hope the books you write are good.  You're going to need a lot of money to support your future keyboard hobby.

[mkawa]

big, clacky, good for pounding on? say no more. you want buckling springs. pick up a unicomp board. you won't regret it.

[writer525]

Hi all,

So in weighing the options between the Unicomp and the Das I pulled out my own mechanical keyboard, the Lil Bigboard Datadisk - a buckling spring board, I'm pretty sure - and went to clacking. I found, given the elevation of my chair and other considerations, the spring-action typing feel was awesome. That being said, I have qualms with the datadisk, and still want another board; but now I know, I think, that I like the spring action -- and this seems to finalize things: I want the Unicomp. I'm really excited! Probably gonna order it in a few days just to give myself more time to consider but, yeah, it's lookin' like the decision is more or less made.

Final questions: anybody know of a good keyboard wrist-rest? Right now, as I type this on my datadisk, my wrists rest upon my wooden desk, which is less than desirable/comfortable. I figure I'll just order a well reviewed one off amazon, but if there are any wrist-rests out there that are recommended, or that particularly suit the Unicomp spacesaver M, I'd love to hear about them.  

Thanks again everyone - your advice/wisdom is really, really appreciated,

- writer525

[bionicroach]

Unicomps are great.  You pretty much can't go wrong there.

Regarding the wrist rest, I personally like this 3M one from Amazon.  Not too squishy (don't like the gel kind personally) but soft enough to be comfortable.  The faux leather stuff is very durable:

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Leatherette-Antimicrobial-Protection-WR310LE/dp/B000WU4H5C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340569295&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+wrist+rest

A lot of people like the Filco one as well.  It's certainly nicer looking, but it's a lot more expensive:

http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Wristrest-Standard-Keyboards-FKBPR/dp/B000KJTP4S/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1340570462&sr=1-1&keywords=filco

Functionally, it's not much different, but it does have the nice feature that you can turn it around to make it different heights.

[mkawa]

Hi all,

So in weighing the options between the Unicomp and the Das I pulled out my own mechanical keyboard, the Lil Bigboard Datadisk - a buckling spring board, I'm pretty sure - and went to clacking. I found, given the elevation of my chair and other considerations, the spring-action typing feel was awesome. That being said, I have qualms with the datadisk, and still want another board; but now I know, I think, that I like the spring action -- and this seems to finalize things: I want the Unicomp. I'm really excited! Probably gonna order it in a few days just to give myself more time to consider but, yeah, it's lookin' like the decision is more or less made.

Final questions: anybody know of a good keyboard wrist-rest? Right now, as I type this on my datadisk, my wrists rest upon my wooden desk, which is less than desirable/comfortable. I figure I'll just order a well reviewed one off amazon, but if there are any wrist-rests out there that are recommended, or that particularly suit the Unicomp spacesaver M, I'd love to hear about them.  

Thanks again everyone - your advice/wisdom is really, really appreciated,

- writer525

from the desko wiki, i believe your datadesk keyboard uses alps switches. BS boards are _significantly_ more clacky than alps (which themselves are significantly more clacky than cherry MX). i used apple-branded alps boards most of my childhood, and my first BS board (a white label M) was a revelation. if you want dat clack, there's simply no substitute for buckling springs.

[writer525]

Cool, thank you. Bionicroach, once again you save the day. Definitely gonna go with the one you recommend from personal use.

And mkawa, thanks a ton. It's good to know what I use right now is more clacky than the cherry MX variants, and that the unicomp will heighten the clacky typing experience.

I know I said in my last post that the question therein would be my final, annoying one but, sadly - and my apologies included - here's another: since I use a laptop (mabook pro 15 inch from early 2012), does anybody know of any laptop stands/elevators they recommend? I'm using a sort of tilter thing right now, but it barely elevates the laptop, and takes up a ton of space on my desk. This one is really well reviewed on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Rain-Design-10032-mStand-Laptop/dp/B000OOYECC/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1340572169&sr=1-1 and, if nothing else exists to compete with it, than this is probably the one I'll go with, but yeah - would love/really appreciate any advice.

Again, thanks so much. I'm thinkin' I'll throw caution to the wind and order my Unicomp today... I'm really excited, and of course really grateful.

- writer525

[mkawa]

both a friend of mine and my sister in law have earlier variants of the griffin stands (icurve something something? i can never remember) and they like them. i tend to use my lap, so i'm afraid i don't have any input on this one

[sth]

I use a Pyle DJ stand for my laptop. It's the nicest looking type of stand for the money (absolutely no frills, supposed to blend in with DJ equipment I guess) and it's height-adjustable. I got mine on amazon for $15.
That mstand would fit better with the rest of my Apple stuff but it's pretty pricey.

[Matias]

I know I said in my last post that the question therein would be my final, annoying one but, sadly - and my apologies included - here's another: since I use a laptop (mabook pro 15 inch from early 2012), does anybody know of any laptop stands/elevators they recommend? I'm using a sort of tilter thing right now, but it barely elevates the laptop, and takes up a ton of space on my desk. This one is really well reviewed on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Rain-Design-10032-mStand-Laptop/dp/B000OOYECC/ref=sr_1_1?s=office-products&ie=UTF8&qid=1340572169&sr=1-1 and, if nothing else exists to compete with it, than this is probably the one I'll go with, but yeah - would love/really appreciate any advice.

The mStand is really solid and made of aluminum so it'll last you a lifetime, but it's not adjustable, so if the height is wrong, you may have problems.  If it's too low, you can always put books under it.  If it's too high, you're SOL.

We make this one, which is adjustable, and also packs flat for travel...

http://amazon.com/Global-Marketing-Partners-IR102-Matias/dp/B000XQGPZU

http://matias.ca/irizer/laptops

http://matias.ca/irizer/laptops/viewer

[didjamatic]

Buy both, you can easily resell them.  Or get one from Matias.

Relevant video.  Obviously it's a commercial for DAS though.
[video=youtube;m9EXEpjSDEw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9EXEpjSDEw[/video]

These are all from the same guy, it's good to hear reviews from the same person when possible because it's easier to make comparisons of sound and other factors.

Review of DAS keyboard.  I haven't watched it all but the guy has a frickin samurai sword in the background so it has to be good.
[video=youtube;J8HHQPj0MqI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8HHQPj0MqI[/video]

Model M Review
[video=youtube;psjZzAC6dKI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psjZzAC6dKI[/video]

DAS review by same guy (but he mispronounces "DAS" and has no samurai sword)
[video=youtube;yJitURx3ZVQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJitURx3ZVQ[/video]


Unicomp review by same guy (still no sword)
[video=youtube;mIU-40Zc1IQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIU-40Zc1IQ[/video]

[mkawa]

skip to the end of the videos to hear these fine folks actually type on their keyboards.

lovin the sword.

[Chris_F]

Pros Unicomp:

Considerably less expensive
Loudest, most tactile switch (if you are into that)
The click coincides directly with the point of activation
Design that has stood up for decades
Dye sublimated PBT key caps (really nice IMO)

Pros DAS:

Cherry MX switches have some potential mod-ability
Quieter, less tactile switches (if you are into that)
There may be more options for key cap replacement

[writer525]

Hey all,

Thanks once more for your awesome advice. Matias, the Irizer Stand looks awesome, and I especially love the 50 degree angle capability. One question: at the 50 degree angle, would it work for and support my 15 inch, late 2012 macbook pro?

Regarding the choice, I feel I'm partial to the clickiness of the Unicomp variety, ultimately. I'm of course tempted to order both the Spacesaver and Das, but, still, something about the Spacesaver appeals to me more. Then again, I've never typed on a blue-switch keyboard... Decisions, decisions...

Thanks again,

- writer525

[Quarzac]

I'd say go Unicomp since Model Ms are awesome and Unicomp is an awesome company.

[mkawa]

one thing to note is that once you catch the keyboard bug, there's a good chance that you'll end up with a whole stable of keyboards and rotate between them depending on your mood. go check out the inventories in the current geekhack giveaway thread if you don't believe me.

[Matias]

Hey all,

Matias, the Irizer Stand looks awesome, and I especially love the 50 degree angle capability. One question: at the 50 degree angle, would it work for and support my 15 inch, late 2012 macbook pro?

Yes, it's designed to work with all laptops.  I use one with my 15" MacBook Pro also.

[rknize]

You'll end up with both.    The Unicomp fit-and-finish is sometimes not perfect.  Function over form.  The Das is, in at least one way, the opposite.  It almost became my first Cherry MX board, but I decided to heed the advice about the glossy finish.

[dorkvader]

The activation point of the unicomp seems (to me) to occur much further down in the key travel. It took me a bit to get used to not bottoming out, but once I did, it was very nice (it was nice before, but now it's very nice) You do get a nice, solid clack, as the spring hits the barrel plate, and the hammer hits the mat/membrane. On the upstroke, you get another sound when the key "tops out". I really enjoy the sound when I'm typing.

Cherry blues are good as well, though I'm not using that keyboard much at the moment. I like that the activation point is much further up the travel (and indeed, it's pretty easy to float your fingers and not bottom out). I am eager to try it with o-rings.
---
I'd recommend to get a unicomp in a month or so, with red printed keycaps, when they come out.

Also, the PBT keycaps that come on the unicomp are absolutely a joy. PBT is excellent, and you should experience it. I'd only recommend the DAS (or any keyboard) if you got a set of PBT to go with it.

[hxu1]

unicomp is using BS. I like BS than blue switch

[False_Dmitry_II]

Why in a month or so?

Just for the record not bottoming out isn't required. My only goal for that is to not do that too hard.

[jpc]

Pounding out documents? You're doing it wrong.
Get the DAS with browns. Learn to touch type in Colemak. Thank me later.

[Typhaeon]

Curious that you've not considered the Brown models, despite their lower noise output than the Blues.  I do honestly feel that they're one of the best choices for long-term writing or similar uses.  Is this need for aural feedback motivated by some psychological trauma in your past, perhaps?  Tell me about your mother.

You also get all of the bonus cool points if you go for a Das Model S Ultimate Silent for your (inevitable) next keyboard.  I usually balk at "otaku" keyboards as gimmicky BS, but the aesthetics of blank, smooth black keys on a glossy finish are just so delicious.

I have a Unicomp Customizer bumming around that I don't use much anymore, along with one with some sort of break between the keyboard matrix and controller board (turns on, recognizes lock state from other keyboards, does not transmit keystrokes to computer; mint otherwise).  They're the brontosaurus of keyboards: great, heavy and huge noisy beasts whose goddamn names keep changing (yes, I bloody well know it's apatosaurus, even if spellcheck doesn't).  You could say I wrote novels of a sort on mine, and I loved every minute of it, so I wish you the best with yours.  Just try a little tenderness sometimes: try the butter-smoothness of Browns or Reds as a change of pace.  You'll thank me.

[dorkvader]

Why in a month or so?

Just for the record not bottoming out isn't required. My only goal for that is to not do that too hard.

'cause the Red alert and blue alert-style printing will come out in about one month.

Curious that you've not considered the Brown models, despite their lower noise output than the Blues.  I do honestly feel that they're one of the best choices for long-term writing or similar uses.  Is this need for aural feedback motivated by some psychological trauma in your past, perhaps?  Tell me about your mother.

I doubt it's something like that, Surely you must realize that people have different tastes. Of the cherry switches I've tried, browns are among my least favourite. I don't think the tactility is enough for me. I prefer linear switches and very tactile ones. I preferred my feel of clears (and ergo clears) to browns. Sound doesn't really make to much of a difference to me, as no cherry has the sound of my excellent M or pingy F.

You also get all of the bonus cool points if you go for a Das Model S Ultimate Silent for your (inevitable) next keyboard.  I usually balk at "otaku" keyboards as gimmicky BS, but the aesthetics of blank, smooth black keys on a glossy finish are just so delicious.

I have a Unicomp Customizer bumming around that I don't use much anymore, along with one with some sort of break between the keyboard matrix and controller board (turns on, recognizes lock state from other keyboards, does not transmit keystrokes to computer; mint otherwise).  They're the brontosaurus of keyboards: great, heavy and huge noisy beasts whose goddamn names keep changing (yes, I bloody well know it's apatosaurus, even if spellcheck doesn't).  You could say I wrote novels of a sort on mine, and I loved every minute of it, so I wish you the best with yours.  Just try a little tenderness sometimes: try the butter-smoothness of Browns or Reds as a change of pace.  You'll thank me.

I agree here. Having reds and BS as my two "main" keyboards is great. It's good if I need a change of pace on my fingers.