Softening Keys on Mechanical Keyboards

[RSIgamer]

Not sure if I should've posted this in the "making stuff together" section instead, but here goes:

Hello,

I'm a RSI sufferer, and, unfortunately, an avid FPS gamer at the same time.

Basically, I tap 4 keys about 200-250 times a minute. I play 3-4 hours daily.
So you can see, this is quite hard on someone with brittle, old fingers like myself.

I was wondering if I could purchase a mechanical keyboard, take it apart, and modify those 4 keys in such a way that they will take a lot less force to actuate.

I have a good marker as to how much force I need to get them down to: around 15-20 grams of activation force.
I know this because I have some arcade pushbuttons (the kind you'd find in an 1980s arcade) that take exactly 20 grams to actuate.

So, I thought this might be the right place to ask this question.
Has anyone done something like this here? Can it be done at all? Is 15 grams too much(little) to hope for?
How difficult is it to do?

Thanks in advance.

[jeroplane]

In terms of modifying the switches on a mechanical keyboard, it is actually a very easy process. The one caveat is that the keyboard must be PCB-mounted as opposed to plate-mounted. With the latter, you would have to desolder the switches in question, which would be a bit more work. With PCB-mounted switches, taking the top of the switch casing off is quite a simple task.

From there, it would just be a matter of changing the spring inside the switch. However, I am not sure if springs that light exist. Someone else will have to weigh in on that one (punintended).

You might also want to think about installing some rubber o-rings on those switches. These will provide for a softer landing for the keys when you bottom-out and should reduce impact and be more comfortable for the fingers.

[Larken]

What keyboard are you using right now?

Sounds like you want a mx red, but 15g actuation might be tricky. I'm no engineer, but with springs that weak, I'm wondering if there's enough force to reset the switch in the first place.

It sounds like you haven't bought a keyboard yet. Do give a mx red board a try. As it is, the activation force for those are light enough for me to activate them accidentally just by resting my fingers on the home row. Not sure if any lighter would be a good idea.

[IvanIvanovich]

I think lightest you could get with MX is about 40g actuation with some custom Korean spring.
You could get MY (Cherry G81 series) and remove the spring all together, which work and actuation is very light around where you want after the mod. They can be had for really cheap used on ebay. The biggest cons are they are only 2KRO and even with mod they still don't feel that nice, pretty frictiony.
The best thing if you want something out of the box would be 35g Topre Realforce, but they are quite expensive and I believe only available in Japanese layout at that weight.

[AKIMbO]

If you've got big bucks you can get a 30g realforce.  That's the lightest switch you can get and the bottoming out is very smooth, much smoother than reds in fact.  Honestly, topre switches have been the easiest on my fingers of all the switches I've tried so far.

[RSIgamer]

The one caveat is that the keyboard must be PCB-mounted as opposed to plate-mounted. With the latter, you would have to desolder the switches in question, which would be a bit more work. With PCB-mounted switches, taking the top of the switch casing off is quite a simple task.

Alright, thanks.
Is there a list somewhere, where I can see which keyboards are PCB-mounted (whatever that means)?

From there, it would just be a matter of changing the spring inside the switch. However, I am not sure if springs that light exist.

The arcade pushbuttons (the ones with 20 gram actuation force) I mentioned in my initial post have a tiny spring inside the the microswitch. That spring could easily be removed - and transferred to the keyboard, if need be.
However, I do not know the dimensions of the springs that go into these mechanical keyboards. So I have no clue as to if my 20g spring there would fit in the keyboard.
Maybe one could simply cut/modify the existing springs in the keyboard?

You might also want to think about installing some rubber o-rings on those switches. These will provide for a softer landing for the keys when you bottom-out and should reduce impact and be more comfortable for the fingers.

Cheers. This definitely sounds like something I would need. Reduced travel and softer bottoming out will also aid in reducing RSI for me.

[RSIgamer]

What keyboard are you using right now?

Sounds like you want a mx red, but 15g actuation might be tricky. I'm no engineer, but with springs that weak, I'm wondering if there's enough force to reset the switch in the first place.

It sounds like you haven't bought a keyboard yet. Do give a mx red board a try. As it is, the activation force for those are light enough for me to activate them accidentally just by resting my fingers on the home row. Not sure if any lighter would be a good idea.

Yeah, I do not have a [mechanical] keyboard yet. Never had one.

But so far, it seems, I need to look for a PCB-mounted one (still not sure what that means exactly). And get one with Red Cherry switches.

But maybe if I'm modifying the springs anyway, then maybe it doesn't matter which switches the keyboard has?
Are there differences between travel distance and other things from Red, Black, Blue switches?

I heard Blacks are best for FPS gaming. I have no idea why.

[RSIgamer]

You could get MY (Cherry G81 series) and remove the spring all together, which work and actuation is very light around where you want after the mod.

Oh, so there is a switch inside the switch? I mean, there's a spring that bounces back the key cap - and then under that there is another switch (the one that actually 'clicks' and activates the circuit)?

If that is the case, couldn't I simply just remove the spring entirely and just use the keyboard like that?
Or does removing the spring mean the key never goes back into position, rendering it absolutely useless?

This is interesting.

[RSIgamer]

If you've got big bucks you can get a 30g realforce.  That's the lightest switch you can get and the bottoming out is very smooth, much smoother than reds in fact.  Honestly, topre switches have been the easiest on my fingers of all the switches I've tried so far.

Thanks.
Unfortunately, I'm absolutely skint at the moment! 

[samwisekoi]

You might also want to think about installing some rubber o-rings on those switches. These will provide for a softer landing for the keys when you bottom-out and should reduce impact and be more comfortable for the fingers.

I have a WASD keyboard with Cherry Blue keys with  O-rings.  They are the most delicate keys I have ever typed on.

Blues might not be your best bet for gaming, but the O-ring mod might help a lot.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[IvanIvanovich]

MY switch have a leaf at the bottom that makes the contact for actuation. It also have a spring. The spring is not necessary for function, it just make the key harder to press. The leaf is enough to return the key to the start position. Several people have made this mod include myself, though I didn't keep it. I was just curious about it and had some time, they were very light which I liked, but still didn't feel as nice as MX. I just buy the MY to steal the doubleshots mostly and throw the keyboard away.

[RSIgamer]

MY switch have a leaf at the bottom that makes the contact for actuation. It also have a spring. The spring is not necessary for function, it just make the key harder to press. The leaf is enough to return the key to the start position. Several people have made this mod include myself, though I didn't keep it. I was just curious about it and had some time, they were very light which I liked, but still didn't feel as nice as MX. I just buy the MY to steal the doubleshots mostly and throw the keyboard away.

Alright.
Would you happen to have an idea of how much force it took you to actuate the key in that (spring-less) state?

I'm just trying to guestimate whether it might be enough for me simply to remove the spring in a mechanical keyboard - and not even bother with modding/replacing the springs.

[IvanIvanovich]

Oh 25-30g depend on who's measurements. I didn't bother to measure it myself. It was really light though. This is only with MY switch on Cherry G81 mind, you can't just remove spring from MX.

[fohat.digs]

I am not a gamer, so I should not even be involved, but I do like switches as light as possible.

There is a certain force that is required to raise the key back up, reliably, and I think that many of these light switches hit that limitation.

One time I bought one of those Cherry MY boards with the springs removed, and it was unbearable for me. I would have loved the light touch, but the action was unreliable because you really want the key to spring back to its neutral state.

If you are in the Cherry realm, I recommend that you don't even think about anything but red or brown, and absolutely do put the fattest and softest possible O-rings on it.

But that's just my opinion.

[jeroplane]

If you are in the Cherry realm, I recommend that you don't even think about anything but red or brown, and absolutely do put the fattest and softest possible O-rings on it.

But that's just my opinion.

I think this is probably your best bet, RSIgamer. If you've been using stiff rubberdome keyboards all your life, Reds/Browns will be a huge sigh of relief once you get to try them. Reds especially, being non-tactile, are the lightest-feeling keys on the market - the so-called "cloud of boobs" typing experience.

Many do say that Blacks are the gaming switch, however this is not entirely true. What is true is that linear switches (Red, Black) have said to be better than tactile switches (Blue, Brown) for gamers that require double-tapping or very quick movements. However, you would definitely not want to get Blacks due to them being the heaviest switch. Reds are basically a MUCH lighter Black.

From there, you can start looking for recommendations for a board with Red switches. You have a lot of great options in that respect.

[TheQsanity]

A lot of why my fingers get fatigue is from bottoming out. I suggest switching from light to stiff, tactical to not. Just to keep your fingers fresh and doing different movements. That and O-rings.

[RSIgamer]

Can anyone tell me if this keyboard http://www.cmstorm.com/en/products/keyboards/quickfirerapidred/ is PCB-mounted or not?

It is fairly inexpensive and available near me, plus it has the Reds.

I might go for this if its PCB-mounted, and start trying to soften the keys.

*edit*

Seems the above one is out of stock everywhere.

How about this one: http://steelseries.com/us/products/keyboards/steelseries-6gv2-red-switch

Sorry to spam the thread full of URLs here, but I don't know myself how to find out whether they are PB-mounted or not.

[TheQsanity]

Plate most boards are plates.

[RSIgamer]

Plate most boards are plates.

Would you happen to know of any PCB-mounted keyboards that have Cherry Reds?
Do they even exist?

Thanks.

[fohat.digs]

I have not owned a CM Rapid but they are well thought of here and a great value for the money.

Patience will almost always reward you. Good sale prices appear and disappear regularly.

[TheQsanity]

Plate most boards are plates.

Would you happen to know of any PCB-mounted keyboards that have Cherry Reds?
Do they even exist?

Thanks.

Chinese brand boards or cherry brand boards are PBC.

http://attarian.taobao.com/?spm=2013.1.2-6823789855.1.daa96f

[khaangaaroo]

If you've got big bucks you can get a 30g realforce.  That's the lightest switch you can get and the bottoming out is very smooth, much smoother than reds in fact.  Honestly, topre switches have been the easiest on my fingers of all the switches I've tried so far.

As much as I love my 30g, I wouldn't recommend it for gaming. It's so light, I find myself strafing a lot accidentally. I think I use more effort trying to hold my fingers up than I do pressing down on mx reds reds. For gaming I'd say stick with mx reds and some softer o-rings.

But for typing fatigue relief, topre would be the way to go.

[RSIgamer]

Plate most boards are plates.

Would you happen to know of any PCB-mounted keyboards that have Cherry Reds?
Do they even exist?

Thanks.

Chinese brand boards or cherry brand boards are PBC.

http://attarian.taobao.com/?spm=2013.1.2-6823789855.1.daa96f

I wouldn't know how to go about ordering from that website.
My browser nearly had a heart attack when I clicked it.

Also, I can't see which ones of those keyboards have red switches.

Maybe I better make a separate thread, asking about which keyboards ave cherry red + PCB-mounted. Probably more hits in that.

Thanks, though.

[RSIgamer]

As much as I love my 30g, I wouldn't recommend it for gaming. It's so light, I find myself strafing a lot accidentally. I think I use more effort trying to hold my fingers up than I do pressing down on mx reds reds. For gaming I'd say stick with mx reds and some softer o-rings.

But for typing fatigue relief, topre would be the way to go.

Oh, trust me, I'd love 30g - and lower.
I have gamed quite a bit with 20g, and its not too light for me. I reckon I could go to 10g without any problems.
I sorta 'hover' my fingers over the keys anyway. I don't rest them on top of the keys before pressing them.

What did it cost you to achieve 30g, if I may ask?