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Offline AscaL

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My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 16:23:30 »
Hello! I'm AscaL, i just found and joined this wonderful site while i was researching keyboard stuff.
I read some articles so i've got a vague idea about what i'm talking about, and i hope you guys can help a noob out.

First of all, i'd like to thank you all for sharing your knowledge, know that is very appreciated!

I will need help choosing my first mechanical keyboard!
So, a little bit about me (keyboard wise):
- I have always used normal (non mechanical) keyboards, and i feel like this needs to change (also, i just got some money for my birthday).
- I've always enjoyed gaming, i do it a lot, but also i have to study and write on the computer (i read this has to do with switch type). i'd say 60% gaming 40% writing.
- My budget is MAX 150 euro.
- I don't like to hear the clicking too much (MX-Blue are too noisy for example, atleast from the videos i have seen).
- I like backlit a lot, so if possible i'd love a keyboard that has it.
- My hands are small so i don't need 3 lines of macros, i can't press them anyway. I think one is sufficient.
- Something that possibly does not gather too much dust and get all fingerprints on it.
- I don't care about the brand, as long as the product is good.

I really have no experience so i'm looking for guidance. I don't even know if this is the right place to ask, but i guess is worth a shot!
Also, i was thinking about the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth, but i read is not that good.

Thank you all. Have a nice day
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Offline inteli722

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 16:48:06 »
It looks like the Logitech G710+ will fit the bill, though I think that's the same OEM as Razer is, so don't know about the quality.
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Offline aviphysics

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 21:45:26 »
Do you need dedicated macros or could you use a third party program to assign macros to normal keys (I always thought the modifiers were too far away from WASD keys anyway)?

If you can do the latter than it might be worth considering something like a Quickfire Rapid, which is reportedly very good quality and a good bit cheaper. If you want something with a 10 Key set and backlit, the Quickfire TK is a good alternative. My TK just arrived today and I can't find anything wrong with it.

My background comes from just having done a lot of research on what I wanted to get myself, some of the other guys here have more hands on experience.
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Offline AscaL

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 21:54:52 »
Thanks for the answers!
No, i don't need dedicated macros to be honest, i kinda hardly use them, altho sometimes they can be useful (in the game i'm currently playing i really don't need em so much).

Can anyone tell me the difference between LogitechG710+ and the Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth? i really don't see one (beside the brand) and i was curious what to look for to decide. Thanks a lot!
PS: I'm looking at the Quickfires right now... So many choices is so hard to decide!
« Last Edit: Fri, 22 February 2013, 21:56:45 by AscaL »
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Offline Hyde

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 22:10:04 »
Logitech G710+ uses MX Brown and o-rings, so it should be pretty quiet.  Layout wise it's pretty similar to Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth.  They both have 1 row of macro keys and backlit.  And Razer Blackwidow Ultimate Stealth also uses MX Brown switch.

Another similar option to the above 2 is CM Storm QuickFire Trigger.  It uses MX Brown.

Although I would almost suggest you to go either CM Storm TK or Ducky or Max Keyboard with MX Red for gaming.  Since you don't really NEED macro keys in my opinion those would probably suit you better  :)
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Offline AscaL

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 22:41:16 »
I love you man, but i need less options, like this i am going crazy over anyone of them! How do i choose?! :)
Wich one of the Max would you get? The X8 seems really nice
And of the Ducky? I have no idea about those.

Sorry for all this, is a new world for me.
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Offline aviphysics

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 22 February 2013, 23:02:42 »
To cut down your options, you should try to either find a store that sells boards with the different key types or order the sample from WASD which includes the 4 most common key types as well as the different o-rings they offer to dampen the keys.

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-sampler-kit.html
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Offline AscaL

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 07:50:25 »
Ok, so i "narrowed" my choices to:
  • Max Keyboard Nighthawk X8 (Mx-Brown)
  • Max Keyboard Nighthawk X9 (Mx-Red)
  • DasKeyboard Professional S - Altho this does not have backlight :(
  • CM Storm Quickfire Tk
  • Ducky DK 9008 S

Now i really need someone to help me with this... I have no idea HOW to actually choose... Based on design i'd go with the nighthawk... but it's not only the eye that wants his part :)
What would you guys get if you were me?
Again, thank you all, you have been most helpful guys!
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Offline aviphysics

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 11:06:43 »
I would start by eliminating the Das Keyboard. There are better options for a basic mechanical keyboard.

Max Keyboard looks pretty cool, though I don't personally know anything at all about it.

In terms of Red VS Brown, I ended up with Red because the TK isn't yet available in Brown. I think I am better off than I would have been with Brown. My Mother has a Kinesis Advantage with Brown switches and IMO the only thing the bump does is disturb my finger a little on the way down. When I am typing pretty fast, the difference is pretty subtle. The Red switches just feel a little smoother.

I am sure some people have a different opinion, so my highest recommendation would be to get your hands on some keys and decide for yourself. If you can't do that, then my recommendation would be to get the Red switches.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 11:22:40 »
Might take a look at CM trigger? Sounds like it have everything you are looking for and is often cheaper than any of the others you have listed and is made by costar so has a good build quality. Stay away from Max, Tessoro, Razer, qpad, etc... they are made by iOne and they have a long record of substandard build quality.
Otherwise I would go with Ducky.
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Offline Burz

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 11:31:37 »
The Max keyboard is probably not good quality compared to the others you listed.

If backlighting is important then I have a feeling you would be happiest with the Ducky, with brown switches.

Also think about the keyboard size (with tenkey, tenkey-less, or compact) because over time it becomes a big factor for most of the people posting here. I can't stand full-size keyboards anymore.
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Offline aviphysics

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 11:52:03 »
Quote from: Burz on Sat, 23 February 2013, 11:31:37
The Max keyboard is probably not good quality compared to the others you listed.

If backlighting is important then I have a feeling you would be happiest with the Ducky, with brown switches.

Also think about the keyboard size (with tenkey, tenkey-less, or compact) because over time it becomes a big factor for most of the people posting here. I can't stand full-size keyboards anymore.

I looked and couldn't find anyone complaining about the Max Keyboard build quality besides people moaning over it being built by iOne. I did find one person who said they got shipped a board with 2 "y" keys but Max Keyboard promptly shipped them the correct replacement key.

Regarding backlight, the Ducky boards look nice and come in lots of backlight colors, but I can't see any reason why anyone wouldn't be happy with the TK if that is the layout they want. The TK is also substantially cheaper.

The size and layout issue is the biggest differentiator IMO. IMO, a compact keyboard, like a QF Rapid or QF TK, is much better for gaming because you have that much more room to move your mouse. If you really only care about gaming, I think you should also look at some of the 75% boards (no ten-key and no home key sections) with dedicated arrow keys. IMO a good gaming keyboard needs to give you right hand as much space to fling that mouse about as possible.
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Offline AscaL

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 12:18:09 »
Ok, thank you both for the advice.
I get what is tenkey and tenky-less, but what do you mean by compact?
My current keyboard is around 45~ cm long. Also i am a highsenser so i guess mouse space is not a big deal to me (currently playing with a 15x25 mousepad, i'd like it a bit bigger but is not much of an issue)
At this point i'm thorn between the Ducky DK 9008S (if there is something better from ducky i'm also open) and the CM Trigger (Thanks for that by the way).

How should i decide wich one? Right now i tend towards the CM Trigger, but i know nothing about Ducky.
Also what's the main difference between CM TK, CM Rapid and CM Trigger?

Thanks, again :D
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 12:26:21 »
The main differences of the CM line is the form factors. Rapid is a tenkeyless, TK is a 96 key without the nav and arrows, and Trigger is a fullsize. Rapid and Trigger are made by Costar, and TK is made by another oem probably SolidYear.
Ducky is also a very good choice, and they also have tenkeyless model with backlight if you want to go with something a little smaller. They have the advantage of a much larger selection of led color as well as has been pointed out.
If you want something really small there are keyboard like KBT Pure, or if that is a little too less of a keyboard for you perhaps something like Keycool 84.
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 February 2013, 12:28:11 by IvanIvanovich »
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Offline aviphysics

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 12:33:50 »
Quote from: AscaL on Sat, 23 February 2013, 12:18:09
Ok, thank you both for the advice.
I get what is tenkey and tenky-less, but what do you mean by compact?
My current keyboard is around 45~ cm long. Also i am a highsenser so i guess mouse space is not a big deal to me (currently playing with a 15x25 mousepad, i'd like it a bit bigger but is not much of an issue)
At this point i'm thorn between the Ducky DK 9008S (if there is something better from ducky i'm also open) and the CM Trigger (Thanks for that by the way).

How should i decide wich one? Right now i tend towards the CM Trigger, but i know nothing about Ducky.
Also what's the main difference between CM TK, CM Rapid and CM Trigger?

Thanks, again :D

By "compact" I mean any keyboard that has fewer keys than a full standard keyboard. This includes 60%, 75%, TKL and QF TK like designs. Different layouts make different sacrifices to get the smaller form factor.

BTW, while the TK lacks dedicated arrow keys, the number pad arrow keys are arranged as they would be in a dedicated arrow key cluster instead of spread out as they are in a normal ten key layout. I think that is a good enough compromise that I was happy to make it to get access to the ten key cluster when I need it.

edit: an example of a 75% board is the noppoo choc mini http://i.imgur.com/tcJp1vl.jpg . I have never seen or handled one of these in person but I have heard they are a good board if you want a 75% layout. 60% isn't much smaller and requires to many sacrifices IMO.
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 February 2013, 12:44:36 by aviphysics »
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Offline AscaL

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 13:09:45 »
Ok, i feel like i'm close to a decision. I think i will go for the Trigger.
I don't think i am ready to give up a full size keyboard, i have enough space on the table for my current full size keyboard and it does not bother me at all (also, is the only kind i ever used).
Can i ask why size would matter here? unless you play on a restricted space the difference of having 10 cm more or less seems minimal to a novice like me.

Thank you all for the help, you have been super nice :)
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Offline aviphysics

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 13:52:51 »
I feel size matter regardless of surface space for the following reason. When I lay my hands on a desk in a neutral position they are only so far apart. This is the position I prefer to sit in if I am not moving the mouse. The further the keyboard extends to the right from the WASD keys, the less room I have to the left of the neutral position. Less room means I have to run my mouse at higher sensitivity and therefore have less precision or have to lift my mouse more often.

Almost no games use the TK or home key cluster, so they don't have any real benefit for gaming. Even outside of gaming, one almost never uses both the 10 key and home key cluster at the same time. That is what lead me to my decision. I do some work on my computer and wanted the ten key and arrow keys for that. If I only used the computer for gaming, I would have tried to get something more compact.

If you feel you want/need TK and Home key cluster for any reason, than by all means get the Trigger. There is certainly nothing wrong with that preference. Anyone here can give you there opinions all day long, but in the end it is about what you want on your desktop.
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 February 2013, 14:24:17 by aviphysics »
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Offline AscaL

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 24 February 2013, 08:04:36 »
Ok, after a long long session of thinking i decided for the CM TK with Red swich, i guess i want to try out how it is to have a smaller keyboard, and also i don't use the Home cluster + the numpad often, so i guess it makes sense :)

Thanks a lot everyone! I really learned a lot :D
Have a nice day!
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Offline jabar

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 24 February 2013, 15:12:51 »
Make your keyboard #2 (and you will get a second, and a third...) a Ducky. They have awesome backlit offerings right now, full-size and TKL with more stuff on the way.
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Offline AscaL

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 24 February 2013, 21:25:11 »
They seem really hard to find tho, all i can find is the last model, the Shine II, and that is a bit outside my price range :)
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Offline aviphysics

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 24 February 2013, 21:32:40 »
Quote from: AscaL on Sun, 24 February 2013, 08:04:36
Ok, after a long long session of thinking i decided for the CM TK with Red swich, i guess i want to try out how it is to have a smaller keyboard, and also i don't use the Home cluster + the numpad often, so i guess it makes sense :)

Thanks a lot everyone! I really learned a lot :D
Have a nice day!

Let us know how that works out for you.
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Offline jabar

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 24 February 2013, 22:17:04 »
Quote from: AscaL on Sun, 24 February 2013, 21:25:11
They seem really hard to find tho, all i can find is the last model, the Shine II, and that is a bit outside my price range :)
Hopefully MechanicalKeyboards will stock up soon on the Ducky catalog. They make a number of great boards that aren't backlit as well, but if you find backlighting is most important, Ducky is the way to go.

But if the QF TK works for you and you can resist other boards, good for you!
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Offline YMSNoms

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 25 February 2013, 04:39:32 »
I'd recommend a filco to be honest.
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Offline AscaL

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 25 February 2013, 08:10:56 »
I just don't have many other options then the QF TK to be honest. I can't really find the Ducky i'd like.
The Backlight is not MOST important, but being able to choose i'd like it :)

It seems impossible to decide to be honest, i still have some questions:
  • What Filco would you reccomend (and why)? Unfortunatly i have 0 expirience and i don't know what to go for (that's why is taking me so long).
  • If Backlight was not important, what would you have me go for?
  • IF i could get a Ducky, why would i get the Shine II instead of the 9008S (if i could ever find that)? Beside the "light up when i press" what is the difference?
  • I seem to understand that most of you would surely go for a Ducky, in which way is it so superior? (Yes, the design is quite beautiful, but other then that)

I'm asking all this because i could add a bit of money and actually get the Ducky, but if i spend so much i kinda need to be sure of what i am buying :)

Thanks again! And sorry for the (too) many questions :D
« Last Edit: Mon, 25 February 2013, 09:10:03 by AscaL »
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Offline AscaL

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 26 February 2013, 17:34:36 »
Today is the last day i have left to decide, so if someone has any last minute advice please feel free to tell me :)
Thank you all guys!
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Offline aviphysics

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Re: My First Mechanical Keyboard!
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 26 February 2013, 21:57:37 »
Quote from: AscaL on Tue, 26 February 2013, 17:34:36
Today is the last day i have left to decide, so if someone has any last minute advice please feel free to tell me :)
Thank you all guys!

Follow your gut
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