Author Topic: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M  (Read 22201 times)

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Offline do_Og@n

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New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 08:50:40 »
I've been looking at the newer Unicomp Model M's but I'm curious as to the quality in comparison to older IBM Model M's.

What are your opinions? Have you tried the Unicomp Model M?

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 08:55:18 »
I stand by what I said earlier.

I have a dozen Model M/Fs of various ages, dates, and part numbers, and modded or not to varying degrees. They are all IBMs although I have owned Lexmarks and Unicomps.

Each is different and has its own personality.

I have been using a heavily-modded F-122 (ie internal Teensy, springs & barrels moved to simulate ANSI, new homemade foam pad, bolt-mod, floss-mod, and internal pillow stuffing) for nearly a year, and whenever I use anything else it feels like cheap plastic junk. And that includes my immaculate and thoughtfully modded 1390131. This board feels and sounds incredibly solid and pleasant, but the noise is nicely attenuated to the point that it does not bother the wife and kids at all.

But, I am obviously a tinkerer and have spent dozens of hours on ebay and even more hours at the workbench.

Like buying a classic car and restoring it, you can get an awesome result if you are willing to pay the price (in more than money), but that is not for everybody.

Otherwise, if you have never used buckling springs but want to try something that you can take out of the box, plug in, and enjoy immediately, buy this:

http://pckeyboard.com/page/UKBD/UB40P4A

And don't look back.

PS - you might have to look forward to that wallet-hack thing starting again if you get into vintage stuff
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline jkercado

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 09:16:08 »
...if you have never used buckling springs but want to try something that you can take out of the box, plug in, and enjoy immediately, buy this:

http://pckeyboard.com/page/UKBD/UB40P4A

And don't look back.

PS - you might have to look forward to that wallet-hack thing starting again if you get into vintage stuff

YES!

Ducky 1087XM Green | Unicomp Ultra Classic Black | IBM M4 | 1989 IBM Model M | Genius i200 | Cherry G84-4100 | Microsoft Arc Keyboard

Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 10:00:25 »
I stand by what I said earlier.

I have a dozen Model M/Fs of various ages, dates, and part numbers, and modded or not to varying degrees. They are all IBMs although I have owned Lexmarks and Unicomps.

Each is different and has its own personality.

Yes, however typing on a Model M and Model F, for instance, is obviously a different experience. Would you recommend a Model M to someone that's interested in the typing experience associated with a Model F? Of course not. They're different. If you want to try a Model F, buy a Model F.

Otherwise, if you have never used buckling springs but want to try something that you can take out of the box, plug in, and enjoy immediately, buy this:

http://pckeyboard.com/page/UKBD/UB40P4A

And don't look back.

If all someone wants to do is try out Buckling Springs (as opposed to experiencing a vintage Model M in all its fabled glory) and doesn't care if there are differences in sound and feel then I say knock yourself out. Buy a Unicomp. However, if someone's interested in the experience of typing on a real 1391401, then there's no substitute, in my opinion.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 10:11:02 »
My comment was directed toward a newbie.

I think it is clear that you and I know that there is a very wide spectrum across the IBM Model M/F universe, and that we enjoy exploring those nuances.

However, for a person that does not yet know whether he will even "like" buckling springs, I recommend that he jump in the shallow end.

A whole lot of people don't even like mechanical switches. My wife hates them and thinks that Apple chiclets are the only "really good" keyboards in the world.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 10:24:31 »
My comment was directed toward a newbie.

I think it is clear that you and I know that there is a very wide spectrum across the IBM Model M/F universe, and that we enjoy exploring those nuances.

However, for a person that does not yet know whether he will even "like" buckling springs, I recommend that he jump in the shallow end.

A whole lot of people don't even like mechanical switches. My wife hates them and thinks that Apple chiclets are the only "really good" keyboards in the world.


The OP seems to be enquiring about the comparative quality of Unicomp's vs. IBM Model M's rather than asking for opinions regarding Buckling Springs specifically, though.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 10:38:43 »
I've been looking at the newer Unicomp Model M's but I'm curious as to the quality in comparison to older IBM Model M's.

What are your opinions? Have you tried the Unicomp Model M?

I've tried both and I suppose it depends on your criteria as to what constitutes quality. Personally, I associate quality primarily with sturdiness. To use a cliche, the IBM Model M is built like a tank and weighs a ton. The Unicomp weighs less and the plastic case is more flexible. Some appreciate and prefer a lighter keyboard, whereas I tend to prefer the weight of an original Model M. While the weight and flexibility of the case has no effect on the typing experience itself, in terms of quality, I tend to associate it with a higher caliber build. If we were to equate weight with solidity, the IBM Model M has a more solid feel to me.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 28 August 2012, 10:45:49 »
There's also the issue of traces of plastic fringing around the edges of some of the keycaps and case associated with Unicomp boards. This is namely due to the age of the equipment Unicomp is using, nevertheless the boards tend to lack the overall smooth finish associated with older Model M's.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline dorkvader

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 00:47:57 »
I would say that unicomp and IBM have similar levels of quality. It is still arguable as to whether or not the differences between them make one or the other better or worse quality. I wolud say: The differences are small, and they are on the same level. Like foghat.digs. I recommend getting a new unicomp.

One major difficulty in comparing "ibm" quality to "unicomp" quality is that it's hard to really say "ibm" quality. It's somewhat loosely defined. The model M with though several revisions and differences between about 1986 and 1994 or so (when they went to lexmark). Primarily the differences with IBM quality is the lighter plates in newer ones, the one-piece vs. 2 piece keycaps (which seem to vary randomly, as far as I can tell), andthe romoval of stabilizers from larger keys (the still have a dummy barrel) in the late `80s.

Differences exist, Quality is similar.better or worse is purely subjective. I'm not sure what 1391406 is talking about "plastic fringing" being caused by unicomp's equpitment: I haven't read anything about that until now, and I haven't had issue with mine.

Both are great choices. You can't really go wrong with either (unless the keyboard in question is used and also in really bad shape), and ultimately the decision is up to you.

Offline do_Og@n

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 01:29:39 »
I have bought and used the original IBM Model M for about a year now and I love them (as a matter of fact I am typing on one right now). The only real reason why I would be interested in purchasing a Unicomp model M is to get the extra Win keys or a quiet version. If I did have a little bit more time and money I would love to mod the NIB Model M I bought to fit my every desire but those days aren't here yet.

This reminds me of a question I wish to ask...I am looking to purchase a tenkeyless IBM Model M. Does anyone know of a good source to buy these other than ebay?

Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 02:25:23 »
I'm not sure what 1391406 is talking about "plastic fringing" being caused by unicomp's equpitment: I haven't read anything about that until now, and I haven't had issue with mine.

The issue was also broached at Deskthority some months back:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/unicomp-key-cap-finishing-is-terrible-t2211.html?sid=5bd1ac4db1255859ca5824db87c1929b

"[...] flashing around the bottom edges of the keycaps (flashing is sharp, excess plastic 'burrs' that should be seen in QC inspection and ground off smooth)"

"[...] The keys appear to be made from injection-molded plastic, and the artifacts of that process are clearly visible."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22008695@N03/sets/72157629594643579/

The rep I spoke with at Unicomp (prior to ordering mine last year) personally told me that the issue is due to the age of the manufacturing equipment. They don't skirt the issue. That said, while the fringing isn't a deal breaker for me, it's worth noting that I've never seen a Model M that was subject to such defects.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 03:17:26 »
Some of the complaints I've leveled at Unicomp's build quality are also echoed in the following review by Christian Cantrell:

feature=related
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 07:12:21 »
Christian Cantrell is the secret identity of a super-hero, isn't he?
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline czarek

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 07:39:50 »
I've got plenty of Model Ms (silver label, white label, blue label, heavily used, NIBs), Model Fs and Unicomps and can obviously tell the difference between them all.
The worst of all to type on are beaten up Model Ms - they're heavy and not that smooth. Also keys don't debounce that quick. The best ones are Model Fs but their layout kills them for me. Second best are NIB Model Ms and Unicomps. Out of those 2 Unicomps win with their modern layouts and native USB support. IBMs legendary tank like construction is true but, they aren't as precisely put together as let's say Topre or better cherry boards (Filco). In this case Unicomp is not that much worse than original Model M. The key sound/feel is very similar to NIB Model Ms too.
For a someone who buys a first BS keyboard I'd definitely recommend Unicomp. You get a brand new modern keyboard with the feel and build quality matching classic IBM. To get similar quality feel from old board you'd need to find a NIB which gets rare and pricey, and you are still left with out of date layout and connection.
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 August 2012, 07:42:03 by czarek »
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 09:43:33 »
I'm not sure what 1391406 is talking about "plastic fringing" being caused by unicomp's equpitment: I haven't read anything about that until now, and I haven't had issue with mine.

The issue was also broached at Deskthority some months back:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/unicomp-key-cap-finishing-is-terrible-t2211.html?sid=5bd1ac4db1255859ca5824db87c1929b

"[...] flashing around the bottom edges of the keycaps (flashing is sharp, excess plastic 'burrs' that should be seen in QC inspection and ground off smooth)"

"[...] The keys appear to be made from injection-molded plastic, and the artifacts of that process are clearly visible."

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22008695@N03/sets/72157629594643579/

The rep I spoke with at Unicomp (prior to ordering mine last year) personally told me that the issue is due to the age of the manufacturing equipment. They don't skirt the issue. That said, while the fringing isn't a deal breaker for me, it's worth noting that I've never seen a Model M that was subject to such defects.
Thanks for the links. I'm aware of the issue you're talking about, I was just confused by your terminology.

IN the DT link, I would say that the OP is out-of-line (with his arguments, I believe some are fallacious), but that doesn't invalidate his point. My unicomp keys are not perfect. My spacebar, in particular, has a small dimple over where the stem was moulded. For me, at least, plastic flashing is easily removable with a knife, and does not impart the function of the keyboard in any way. As such, I don't consider it to be an issue at all, and I don't think it diminishes the build quality. Keep in mind, though, that I am ready and willing to modify all my items and products to fit my tastes.

For example: My MP3 player. One could easily say that the UI is awful, and makes the product less good. I use a third-party firmware on it (Rockbox, for those interested), and as such, almost never use the OF. Since the "issue" is so easily fixable, I don't consider it to be a problem at all.

Still, as I have said before, it is largely up to the person in question, whether or not these differences are issues. I don't consider the ugly CMstorm branding to be an issue, either, and I don't allow it to diminish my enjoyment of my keyboard.

Highlighting the differences is important, so that the reader can decide for themselves whether or not they are acceptable. This is much more important than trying to convince said potential reader that the issues are dealbreakers or negligible. This is especially true, in such a subjective field as mechanical keyboards.

Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 11:31:38 »
IBMs legendary tank like construction is true but, they aren't as precisely put together as let's say Topre or better cherry boards (Filco).

I don't know that I'd agree. For instance, the precision of the build in regards to the Filco FKBN87M/EB2 I sold was no better than that of the used Model M's I own, in my opinion. I suppose it would be easy enough to locate a worse for wear Model M to demonstrate otherwise.

You get a brand new modern keyboard with the feel and build quality matching classic IBM.

Except, unlike Model M's, Unicomp's tend to creak like worn, wooden stairs when picked up and / or moved around, and sometimes a case may require flexing in one direction or another in order for it to sit flat or flush against a surface. There's the aforementioned plastic artifacts around keycap edges, as well. All of these are build quality control issues and are relatively nonexistent in original Model M's, in my opinion.

To get similar quality feel from old board you'd need to find a NIB which gets rare and pricey, and you are still left with out of date layout and connection.

The build quality between a new and used Model M is relatively the same, assuming the used M in question hasn't been seriously abused. I suppose if you prefer springs that are more stiff then an NIB is great. Personally, I'd prefer an NIB, not for build quality, but simply for the fact it's new and free of cosmetic defects.
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 August 2012, 11:47:47 by 1391406 »
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 11:45:46 »
My unicomp keys are not perfect. My spacebar, in particular, has a small dimple over where the stem was moulded. For me, at least, plastic flashing is easily removable with a knife, and does not impart the function of the keyboard in any way. As such, I don't consider it to be an issue at all, and I don't think it diminishes the build quality. Keep in mind, though, that I am ready and willing to modify all my items and products to fit my tastes.

For example: My MP3 player. One could easily say that the UI is awful, and makes the product less good. I use a third-party firmware on it (Rockbox, for those interested), and as such, almost never use the OF. Since the "issue" is so easily fixable, I don't consider it to be a problem at all.

I understand and I've done the same thing in regards to various products over the years, however let's be honest. The point is that having to "fix" an issue that was created during manufacturing inherently implies that there was something wrong or defective in the first place.

Still, as I have said before, it is largely up to the person in question, whether or not these differences are issues.

I agree, although in respect to the issues I mentioned in my reply(above), I'd rephrase it thusly: it's up to the buyer whether certain defects are substantive or negligible.

I don't consider the ugly CMstorm branding to be an issue, either, and I don't allow it to diminish my enjoyment of my keyboard.

However, that's an aesthetic (not a quality control) issue.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
IBM Model M13 | Apple Extended Keyboard | Apple Extended Keyboard II | MTEK K104 | NTC KB-6251/2 | Realforce 87U | Realforce 104U | Type Heaven

Offline czarek

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 29 August 2012, 12:14:40 »
IBMs legendary tank like construction is true but, they aren't as precisely put together as let's say Topre or better cherry boards (Filco).

I don't know that I'd agree. For instance, the precision of the build in regards to the Filco FKBN87M/EB2 I sold was no better than that of the used Model M's I own, in my opinion. I suppose it would be easy enough to locate a worse for wear Model M to demonstrate otherwise.

You get a brand new modern keyboard with the feel and build quality matching classic IBM.

Except, unlike Model M's, Unicomp's tend to creak like worn, wooden stairs when picked up and / or moved around, and sometimes a case may require flexing in one direction or another in order for it to sit flat or flush against a surface. There's the aforementioned plastic artifacts around keycap edges, as well. All of these are build quality control issues and are relatively nonexistent in original Model M's, in my opinion.

To get similar quality feel from old board you'd need to find a NIB which gets rare and pricey, and you are still left with out of date layout and connection.

The build quality between a new and used Model M is relatively the same, assuming the used M in question hasn't been seriously abused. I suppose if you prefer springs that are more stiff then an NIB is great. Personally, I'd prefer an NIB, not for build quality, but simply for the fact it's new and free of cosmetic defects.

1. I don't know how much your Filco was used but mine after heavy use (all keys shiny slick, shine almost everywhere between keycaps and under space bar, it was never opened by anyone though) was (yes was - I swapped it for another Model M -hehe) still better put together than any IBM I ever had. For their time IBMs were superior but compared with modern technology their precision is so so...

Model Ms also creak, less than Unicomps but still... I think it could be something to do with plastic composition (IBM's ABS vs Unicomps PBT/ABS mix) but it's a fact that Unicomps creak more - I don't care about that though.

3. Brand new IBMs (well NIBs, as they're still about 20 years old) are lighter than the heavily used ones I have. Even older NIBs are lighter than newer used ones so it's not about the generation (IBM vs Lexmark vs Unicomp) but about the abuse they went through and dirt/corrosion they accumulated.

If I had choice between brand new IBM with 104 keys and USB and Unicomp I'd probably choose IBM due to a bit higher build quality, but when I'd have to choose between 20 years old IBM with 101 keys and PS/2 + flaky adapter (yeah all of them are flaky, blue cubes and belkins included) and brand new Unicomp with 104 keys and native USB, with warranty and superb support it's no brainer for me, especially that those IBMs often cost more than Unicomps, especially when they're NIB or restored condition.

As a collector I have them all :) from Model Fs XT and AT (I also had F terminal but sold it), through silver label, white label and blue label (US and EU) Model Ms, SSKs and Unicomps in black and white, Customizer and SpaceSaver form factors, and I love them all equally. They are all different but those differences are not that big and it's hard to chose the one I like the most. From those BS boards I mostly use SpaceSaver M due to USB and layout, but I like the feel of XT Model F the most (that's NIB one, AT I have was a trash condition when I got it). And still I use HHKB Pro 2 as my daily driver due to it's size and layout (still SpaceSaver is always connected to my workstation and when I know i'm not going to be using mouse for a while I switch to this board).
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 August 2012, 12:22:02 by czarek »
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Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 00:13:29 »
1. I don't know how much your Filco was used but mine after heavy use (all keys shiny slick, shine almost everywhere between keycaps and under space bar, it was never opened by anyone though) was (yes was - I swapped it for another Model M -hehe) still better put together than any IBM I ever had.

The Filco I owned was new, and I seriously doubt any Filco could stand up to the intentional abuse I've seen some Model M's take(eg. in YouTube videos from individuals attempting to destroy them).

Model Ms also creak, less than Unicomps but still...

Unicomp cases have more flex, and when flexed they tend to creak. It doesn't take much effort at all, which is why they're so prone to creaking when simply pressing down on the case with a moderate amount of pressure. IBM, on the other hand, used a much sturdier plastic, and as a result Model M's are relatively inflexible comparatively speaking, and hence are relatively creak free. You can make them creak, but it takes far more effort to do so.

I think it could be something to do with plastic composition (IBM's ABS vs Unicomps PBT/ABS mix) but it's a fact that Unicomps creak more - I don't care about that though.

Perhaps you don't care, but the issue is indicative of the difference in build quality and is extraneous to whether the Model M is used or new.

but about the abuse they went through and dirt/corrosion they accumulated.

It depends. I've purchased a number of used Model M's on eBay in various stages of disarray and they've typically cleaned up nicely and functioned as expected. Obviously there are non-working units being offered on the marketplace, however I've yet to run into an M that was so dirty and/or corroded that it made a really noticeable impact on aesthetics or performance.

I always look for IBM manufactured Model M's(80's & early 90's), sometimes intentionally looking for M's that appear a bit dirty specifically because they generally work, can often be had for a lower price and are easily cleanable(inside and out), often to the point of looking practically new. They're relatively easy to refurbish, assuming you don't need to replace springs or worse. However, even that's not really an issue considering Unicomp will replace broken springs on vintage boards if you send it in(for a nominal fee of course). Me, I honestly prefer my refurbished and / or used vintage M's to my brand new Unicomp. That's me, of course.

If I had choice between brand new IBM with 104 keys and USB and Unicomp I'd probably choose IBM due to a bit higher build quality, but when I'd have to choose between 20 years old IBM with 101 keys and PS/2 + flaky adapter (yeah all of them are flaky, blue cubes and belkins included)

In my experience, not all of them are Flaky(none of mine are). I own a Belkin ADB, Bluecube and Griffin iMate. The only keyboard that's ever acted flaky is my Chicony KB-5181, but I believe the keyboard is at fault rather than the adapter because every other keyboard I own works fine in conjunction with them.

and brand new Unicomp with 104 keys and native USB, with warranty and superb support it's no brainer for me, especially that those IBMs often cost more than Unicomps, especially when they're NIB or restored condition.

On the whole, all of the used IBM manufactured Model M's I own are superior in build quality to my Unicomp Classic and some cost less to boot. Earlier M's and F's vary in build quality in respect to one another, however that said, I'd still put my Unicomp at the bottom of the list, though. That doesn't mean I don't like it. I simply prefer it less than my Model M's. Again, that's me. Obviously you feel otherwise.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 09:20:57 »
Model Ms also creak, less than Unicomps but still...

Unicomp cases have more flex, and when flexed they tend to creak. It doesn't take much effort at all, which is why they're so prone to creaking when simply pressing down on the case with a moderate amount of pressure. IBM, on the other hand, used a much sturdier plastic, and as a result Model M's are relatively inflexible comparatively speaking, and hence are relatively creak free. You can make them creak, but it takes far more effort to do so.
I propped my unicomp up on some books and stood on it. That's tough enough for me. Torsioning the case isn't really "normal usage". Just like whacking the spine of a knife on a table to see if the lock will fail, I don't really see how it's a "build quality" issue at all. (Also, see below)

I think it could be something to do with plastic composition (IBM's ABS vs Unicomps PBT/ABS mix) but it's a fact that Unicomps creak more - I don't care about that though.

Perhaps you don't care, but the issue is indicative of the difference in build quality and is extraneous to whether the Model M is used or new.
The plastics composition doesn't indicate lower build quality. I'm not sold on "creaking" being indicative of a lower quality product. Also, if it's able to bend more, it's not as hard, and very likely has a higher toughness (The amount of energy it can absorb before failure, or the area under the curve in a stress/strain diagram).

If I had choice between brand new IBM with 104 keys and USB and Unicomp I'd probably choose IBM due to a bit higher build quality, but when I'd have to choose between 20 years old IBM with 101 keys and PS/2 + flaky adapter (yeah all of them are flaky, blue cubes and belkins included)

In my experience, not all of them are Flaky(none of mine are). I own a Belkin ADB, Bluecube and Griffin iMate. The only keyboard that's ever acted flaky is my Chicony KB-5181, but I believe the keyboard is at fault rather than the adapter because every other keyboard I own works fine in conjunction with them.
I've always had problems with my PS2/USb adapters, which I use daily. Unicomp's, IBM, Deck, Access, olivetti, all had some issue. How long have you used them? Mine only acts up a few times a week.

and brand new Unicomp with 104 keys and native USB, with warranty and superb support it's no brainer for me, especially that those IBMs often cost more than Unicomps, especially when they're NIB or restored condition.

On the whole, all of the used IBM manufactured Model M's I own are superior in build quality to my Unicomp Classic and some cost less to boot. Earlier M's and F's vary in build quality in respect to one another, however that said, I'd still put my Unicomp at the bottom of the list, though. That doesn't mean I don't like it. I simply prefer it less than my Model M's. Again, that's me. Obviously you feel otherwise.
This is the crux of the matter. We have thoroughly discussed a number of differences, and how they might relate to build quality. Even if the unicomp has lower quality, it's still very high. In my mind, that's like comparing 100,000 to 100,000.1. Even if there is a difference, there's not a big one. My unicomp does all I ask of it, so I'm happy with it. I also like the black case, and I really should buy a USB controller for it someday.

Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 11:21:13 »
I propped my unicomp up on some books and stood on it. That's tough enough for me. Torsioning the case isn't really "normal usage". Just like whacking the spine of a knife on a table to see if the lock will fail, I don't really see how it's a "build quality" issue at all. (Also, see below)

I don't know about you, but I don't associate creaking noises with high quality, especially in relation to well-built keyboards. Maybe others do. I don't. It's not as though it takes great effort to bring forth such noises. Simply apply a bit of pressure to the top of the case. I never said it's a huge deal. It doesn't affect the typing experience but it does say something about the quality of the product. Compared to my IBM M's (which don't creak or have jagged plastic residue lining the bottom edge of the keycaps) it comes across as shoddy, in my opinion.

The plastics composition doesn't indicate lower build quality. I'm not sold on "creaking" being indicative of a lower quality product.

Well, consider the dictionary definition of the word:

Creak; to make a prolonged grating or squeaking sound often as a result of being worn-out.

Hence, "creaking" isn't an attribute people tend to associate with high quality, either.

Also, if it's able to bend more, it's not as hard, and very likely has a higher toughness (The amount of energy it can absorb before failure, or the area under the curve in a stress/strain diagram).

Aluminum foil and rubber are much more malleable than steel, too.

I've always had problems with my PS2/USb adapters, which I use daily. Unicomp's, IBM, Deck, Access, olivetti, all had some issue. How long have you used them? Mine only acts up a few times a week.

I've used the Bluecube for some time. The others I've used for about 8 months. I've never had problems with the Bluecube in conjunction with my Model M's or Dell AT101W. The iMate and Belkin ADB work perfectly in tandem with my AEK and AEK II. Like I said, the only keyboard I've ever had issues with is the Chicony.

This is the crux of the matter. We have thoroughly discussed a number of differences, and how they might relate to build quality. Even if the unicomp has lower quality, it's still very high.

Yes, in many respects. I'm not saying it's a "bad" keyboard. It's high quality in some respects and low quality in others. However, my real contention is that it doesn't live up to the quality standards set by my IBM Model M's. That's the essence of my position. Maybe the Model M doesn't live up to the standards of the Model F or F122. So what? Fine by me.

Even if there is a difference, there's not a big one. My unicomp does all I ask of it, so I'm happy with it.

I understand your point and that's fine. Let me just say though that a car may do everything a person asks of it(travel from point A to point B), yet does that necessarily make it a "high quality" vehicle? Adequate performance is a necessary condition of a high quality product but not necessarily a sufficient one, in my opinion.
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Offline rknize

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 11:33:18 »
Yes, in many respects. I'm not saying it's a "bad" keyboard. It's high quality in some respects and low quality in others. However, my real contention is that it doesn't live up to the quality standards set by my IBM Model M's. That's the essence of my position. Maybe the Model M doesn't live up to the standards of the Model F or F122. So what? Fine by me.

I don't think anyone can argue that.  While Unicomp could do better, I seriously doubt they will...especially at their current price point.  I have no idea what sort of volumes they do, but it seems like they may be fairly low.  In my dealings with them, I get the impression that they are making these still because they just want to (or someone there really does).

About the flashing on the key caps.  They could likely afford to make a new mold for those given how many caps they probably still churn out and the fact that all the 1-unit caps are the same.  The EnduraPro I got a year or two ago had some minor flashing, but nothing like those pictures.  I would probably not be happy about that either, but being how I am I would just take them off and clean them up with a small file.

That said, looking at my '93 SSK (which creaks a lot, BTW), there is some flashing on these caps as well.
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Offline 1391406

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 30 August 2012, 12:21:37 »
I don't think anyone can argue that.  While Unicomp could do better, I seriously doubt they will...especially at their current price point.  I have no idea what sort of volumes they do, but it seems like they may be fairly low.  In my dealings with them, I get the impression that they are making these still because they just want to (or someone there really does).

Regardless of the shortcomings associated with Unicomps, I'm glad they're keeping Buckling Spring based keyboards alive.

That said, looking at my '93 SSK (which creaks a lot, BTW), there is some flashing on these caps as well.

Perhaps so. In my experience with Model M's manufactured by IBM, the keycaps on mine are quite smooth from top to bottom and there's no perceptible creak.
Unicomp Classic | Chicony KB-5181 (Monterey Blues) | IBM Model M (1391401) | IBM XT Model F | IBM AT Model F | Dell AT101W | 122-key IBM Model F
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Offline czarek

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 31 August 2012, 02:29:15 »
About the flashing on the key caps.  They could likely afford to make a new mold for those given how many caps they probably still churn out and the fact that all the 1-unit caps are the same.  The EnduraPro I got a year or two ago had some minor flashing, but nothing like those pictures.  I would probably not be happy about that either, but being how I am I would just take them off and clean them up with a small file.

To be honest I only notice flashing on silver and black keys from unicomp. The standard beige keys are absolutely perfect and my favourite of all keycaps I've ever used - They feel a bit smoother than original IBMs and they have a bit bolder font (some people say it's because of old tooling), and of course there is absolutely no shine to them. Honestly, much better than any Cherry / Topre I have and comparable only with NIB Model F XT I have.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 11:04:12 »
I'm very disappointed to read this article. It will cost me way too much to buy a Model M and ship it - at least, too much for the risk I take that it may not work leaving me with a piece of junk.

I really, really, regret selling my Model M when I left the US after graduation! There is no freaking way a filco or rosewill can match the Model M in the sheer pleasure of typing.

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Offline swagpiratex

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #25 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 11:38:08 »
I agree with the recommendation to just buy the Unicomp and not look back. It's not worth the time and effort to buy something that is like a decade old and not made anymore.

Unless you're like a true hipster and must have the really vintage, old stuff. Then by all means, good luck. It's your money. I'd rather eat the difference in cheeseburgers.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #26 on: Tue, 02 April 2013, 11:52:38 »
I agree with the recommendation to just buy the Unicomp and not look back. It's not worth the time and effort to buy something that is like a decade old and not made anymore.

Unless you're like a true hipster and must have the really vintage, old stuff. Then by all means, good luck. It's your money. I'd rather eat the difference in cheeseburgers.

Yes and no. I would surely recommend a new Unicomp to someone who wants a fresh clean modern keyboard in a new box with a warranty.

Of a dozen Model Ms that I have bought on ebay for approximately half the price of a Unicomp, 10 worked properly and cleaned up great, although most were missing a few keycaps. It did take some work on my part.

If you want a "project" to spend a few (1-3) hours on, searching out a pre-1989 (all mine through 1991 were great, too, by the way) Model M to be cleaned, adjusted, keys added if necessary, and blot-modded, then you can get a result that is noticeably superior (in look and feel).

And with Orihalcon's cable, you have clean USB compatibility, but you will be back up to Unicomp's price point.

To me, the answer is simple:

If you are a tinkerer with some spare time, and need a project, get an old one.

If you are not a tinkerer, and have money but not time, get a new one.

Later, if you get bitten by the "collector bug" then you can always buy more of them.
« Last Edit: Tue, 02 April 2013, 11:55:28 by fohat.digs »
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 05 April 2013, 22:16:53 »
I, too, considered a unicomp in the past.

But yes, it really, really sucked compared to Model Ms. Model Ms don't give you the impression they are 'cheap' by creaking. Unicomps come across as cheap knockoffs (even if the buckling spring quality may be the same) because of their inferior cases.

And yes, I hated the fringing or whatever you call the plastic mould remnants. Looks damn ugly. This is the 21st century; factory made products are meant to look polished!

I don't understand. Unicomp doesn't seem to appreciate the fact that a lot of people will pay them more to get more quality.

They are selling keyboards at $79.90. I will happily pay $139.90 to get Model M quality. Does it cost so much more for them to use sturdier plastic and replace their moulds (not as if keyboards are going out of fashion tomorrow)?

1. I don't know how much your Filco was used but mine after heavy use (all keys shiny slick, shine almost everywhere between keycaps and under space bar, it was never opened by anyone though) was (yes was - I swapped it for another Model M -hehe) still better put together than any IBM I ever had.

The Filco I owned was new, and I seriously doubt any Filco could stand up to the intentional abuse I've seen some Model M's take(eg. in YouTube videos from individuals attempting to destroy them).

Model Ms also creak, less than Unicomps but still...

Unicomp cases have more flex, and when flexed they tend to creak. It doesn't take much effort at all, which is why they're so prone to creaking when simply pressing down on the case with a moderate amount of pressure. IBM, on the other hand, used a much sturdier plastic, and as a result Model M's are relatively inflexible comparatively speaking, and hence are relatively creak free. You can make them creak, but it takes far more effort to do so.

I think it could be something to do with plastic composition (IBM's ABS vs Unicomps PBT/ABS mix) but it's a fact that Unicomps creak more - I don't care about that though.

Perhaps you don't care, but the issue is indicative of the difference in build quality and is extraneous to whether the Model M is used or new.

but about the abuse they went through and dirt/corrosion they accumulated.

It depends. I've purchased a number of used Model M's on eBay in various stages of disarray and they've typically cleaned up nicely and functioned as expected. Obviously there are non-working units being offered on the marketplace, however I've yet to run into an M that was so dirty and/or corroded that it made a really noticeable impact on aesthetics or performance.

I always look for IBM manufactured Model M's(80's & early 90's), sometimes intentionally looking for M's that appear a bit dirty specifically because they generally work, can often be had for a lower price and are easily cleanable(inside and out), often to the point of looking practically new. They're relatively easy to refurbish, assuming you don't need to replace springs or worse. However, even that's not really an issue considering Unicomp will replace broken springs on vintage boards if you send it in(for a nominal fee of course). Me, I honestly prefer my refurbished and / or used vintage M's to my brand new Unicomp. That's me, of course.

If I had choice between brand new IBM with 104 keys and USB and Unicomp I'd probably choose IBM due to a bit higher build quality, but when I'd have to choose between 20 years old IBM with 101 keys and PS/2 + flaky adapter (yeah all of them are flaky, blue cubes and belkins included)

In my experience, not all of them are Flaky(none of mine are). I own a Belkin ADB, Bluecube and Griffin iMate. The only keyboard that's ever acted flaky is my Chicony KB-5181, but I believe the keyboard is at fault rather than the adapter because every other keyboard I own works fine in conjunction with them.

and brand new Unicomp with 104 keys and native USB, with warranty and superb support it's no brainer for me, especially that those IBMs often cost more than Unicomps, especially when they're NIB or restored condition.

On the whole, all of the used IBM manufactured Model M's I own are superior in build quality to my Unicomp Classic and some cost less to boot. Earlier M's and F's vary in build quality in respect to one another, however that said, I'd still put my Unicomp at the bottom of the list, though. That doesn't mean I don't like it. I simply prefer it less than my Model M's. Again, that's me. Obviously you feel otherwise.
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Offline 0100010

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 08 April 2013, 10:03:02 »
Chose Unicomp myself, to get the black case (without paying M13 prices).
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Offline morpheus

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Re: New Unicomp vs Old IBM Model M
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 08 April 2013, 10:15:26 »
I camped Ebay and got a really good Model M. The keycaps & board were little dirty, but I cleaned it and it's as good as new. Amazingly, the keys are in almost perfect condition, so that it feels more authentic than my old Unicomp Spacesaver.  To be fair, the Unicomp feel was excellent as well. I had a lot of fun typing until I tragically spilled coke on it. The Model M is the most solidly built piece of hardware that I own. Made in USA and built to last. This will probably outlive me and my children's children.