OK, who here owns a Topre-switch board and prefers MX switches over it?

[Aranair]

I prefer my poker with browns(lubed) by a hairline lol. (Unlubed browns are a little behind though)

That's very interesting because I just did the same. I find them so inherently scratchy that any kind of oiling that does not remove the tactility event is an improvement.

Concerning this thread you're a bit undecided so I guess, what we did could still be worse than topre.  )

mmm, I'll say I still prefer the browns. Its arguably main only reason why I'm trying to build something similar to the the hhkb but in browns Otherwise, I'll just buy another hhkb and be done with it lol.

[DaveyG]

I have 2 Realforce boards, I also have Filco's in red, black & brown varieties. I've tried blues too. To date, 55g Topre is undoubtedly my favourite switch, no contest. The stock keycaps are also way better, so to type on, yeah it's my favourite.

But they are not exactly what I'd call good value for money. Build quality is good, but is in no way better than my Filco & the design, while it has a kind of retro charm I suppose, doesn't really get me excited and customisation options are pretty limited. For the price (especially as I had to import the all 55g) I'd hoped I'd be a little closer to keyboard perfection

.. if there is such a thing 

[CommunistWitchDr]

Eh. I know about the differences between Topre and Cherry switch life-times, but that is, as you say, just one aspect of quality. Cashmere is a much higher quality than nylon, yet it's prone to damage. Topre's are rated shorter because of the rubber.

You guys are retarded.  Look up the Asia CNET review of the Type Heaven. 30mill was a conservative estimate by Topre.  They are revising upward to 50 million. 

Quit rustling my jimmies!

Cherry's estimate may be conservative as well. I'd like to see a machine built to press the key and stop on it's first failure to register for both. Run it on a couple hundred samples of each and see the results. A machine that could also measure smoothness and tactility as it went would be best, but difficult.

This wouldn't handle time based wear (cracking rubber) at all, but the results would be interesting.

[hashbaz]

I've had both for about 2 years now. I've gone through phases where I thought each is best. Right now I'm on the Topre kick. But it's much more fun to have MX boards you can customize. :-)

Me too.  I cycle through them, at work especially.  I was on Topre for a couple of months, and now I'm back to MX.

They have fundamentally different feels.  I love both for different reasons.

[jdcarpe]

It seems that several adherents to the Church of Topre can't read a simple thread title. The OP isn't looking for you to defend your messiah switch, he wants opinions from experienced users on why they prefer MX over Topre, in order to cut through the hype.

Topre are rubber dome. That is a fact, and even the brainwashed can't argue to the contrary.

Price has little do do with it. I spend far more on a custom MX board than either Realforce or PFU or Leopold charges for theirs.

Like most other things here, you can try a Topre board, if you can afford it. If you don't like it, you can sell it pretty easily and not lose much.

[fuzzybaffy]

Eh. I know about the differences between Topre and Cherry switch life-times, but that is, as you say, just one aspect of quality. Cashmere is a much higher quality than nylon, yet it's prone to damage. Topre's are rated shorter because of the rubber.

You guys are retarded.  Look up the Asia CNET review of the Type Heaven. 30mill was a conservative estimate by Topre.  They are revising upward to 50 million. 

Quit rustling my jimmies!

Oh. GG trolling (like you tried to over PM last time). Maybe I just didn't read your post before posting mine about the life cycles?

It seems that several adherents to the Church of Topre can't read a simple thread title. The OP isn't looking for you to defend your messiah switch, he wants opinions from experienced users on why they prefer MX over Topre, in order to cut through the hype.

Topre are rubber dome. That is a fact, and even the brainwashed can't argue to the contrary.

Price has little do do with it. I spend far more on a custom MX board than either Realforce or PFU or Leopold charges for theirs.

Like most other things here, you can try a Topre board, if you can afford it. If you don't like it, you can sell it pretty easily and not lose much.

Yea, no ****. I know what this thread is about. I've said how many times now that I don't care if people like Cherry over Topre? Aranir prefers Browns over his HHKB Pro; I have no problem that he does. I was only trying to clear up false facts/misconceptions.

And, yes. Topre has rubber. But you, like so many others, are neglecting all the other aspects of Topre switches (namely, better quality, which I've again, gone over how many times now?), that make it more expensive than the typical rubber dome.

This is like my 4th time saying this: like Cherry switches all you want. But don't falsely characterize Topre switches. If you want to make comparison, make fair ones.

[jwaz]

It seems that several adherents to the Church of Topre can't read a simple thread title. The OP isn't looking for you to defend your messiah switch, he wants opinions from experienced users on why they prefer MX over Topre, in order to cut through the hype.

Topre are rubber dome. That is a fact, and even the brainwashed can't argue to the contrary.

Price has little do do with it. I spend far more on a custom MX board than either Realforce or PFU or Leopold charges for theirs.

Like most other things here, you can try a Topre board, if you can afford it. If you don't like it, you can sell it pretty easily and not lose much.

Rubberdome keyboards without a capacitive mechanism do not have the same feel as the Topre switch. So I don't see how calling them rubberdomes (which we mainly associate with extremely cheap manufactured and bad feeling boards) serves anything but troll bait.


EDIT: +1 fuzzybaffy, you get it.

[fuzzybaffy]

It seems that several adherents to the Church of Topre can't read a simple thread title. The OP isn't looking for you to defend your messiah switch, he wants opinions from experienced users on why they prefer MX over Topre, in order to cut through the hype.

Topre are rubber dome. That is a fact, and even the brainwashed can't argue to the contrary.

Price has little do do with it. I spend far more on a custom MX board than either Realforce or PFU or Leopold charges for theirs.

Like most other things here, you can try a Topre board, if you can afford it. If you don't like it, you can sell it pretty easily and not lose much.

Rubberdome keyboards without a capacitive mechanism do not have the same feel as the Topre switch. So I don't see how calling them rubberdomes (which we mainly associate with expremely cheap manufactured and bad feeling boards) serves anything but troll bait.

Exactly. It's a gross, purposeful neglect in order to imply, "Topre boards should cost less". But that's bull****, because we don't know how much they cost to make.

[AKIMbO]

It seems that several adherents to the Church of Topre can't read a simple thread title. The OP isn't looking for you to defend your messiah switch, he wants opinions from experienced users on why they prefer MX over Topre, in order to cut through the hype.

Topre are rubber dome. That is a fact, and even the brainwashed can't argue to the contrary.

Price has little do do with it. I spend far more on a custom MX board than either Realforce or PFU or Leopold charges for theirs.

Like most other things here, you can try a Topre board, if you can afford it. If you don't like it, you can sell it pretty easily and not lose much.

Rubberdome keyboards without a capacitive mechanism do not have the same feel as the Topre switch. So I don't see how calling them rubberdomes (which we mainly associate with extremely cheap manufactured and bad feeling boards) serves anything but troll bait.


EDIT: +1 fuzzybaffy, you get it.

^QFT

[daerid]

I like the size, but not all of the fn layer, and not the ctrl (should be backspace)
The best layout will always be a fully programmable one, and the day topre makes one is the day I try a topre.

Apparently the FC660C has a daughterboard that should be fairly easy to replace with something like a Teensy.

And backspace to the left of A? NEVAR!!!! Ctrl for life

[CPTBadAss]

Rubberdome keyboards without a capacitive mechanism do not have the same feel as the Topre switch.

I didn't feel enough of a difference between the non-capacitive rubber dome keyboards and the Topre switch. They feel similar enough to me that I feel that I'm not getting my money's worth if I bought a Topre board.

[jdcarpe]

It seems that several adherents to the Church of Topre can't read a simple thread title. The OP isn't looking for you to defend your messiah switch, he wants opinions from experienced users on why they prefer MX over Topre, in order to cut through the hype.

Topre are rubber dome. That is a fact, and even the brainwashed can't argue to the contrary.

Price has little do do with it. I spend far more on a custom MX board than either Realforce or PFU or Leopold charges for theirs.

Like most other things here, you can try a Topre board, if you can afford it. If you don't like it, you can sell it pretty easily and not lose much.

Rubberdome keyboards without a capacitive mechanism do not have the same feel as the Topre switch. So I don't see how calling them rubberdomes (which we mainly associate with extremely cheap manufactured and bad feeling boards) serves anything but troll bait.


EDIT: +1 fuzzybaffy, you get it.

I guess you didn't bother to read my first post in this thread, then. The one where I explicitly say the opposite of what you accuse.

And if troll bait, then successful.

Jimmies sufficiently rustled, I take it.

[davkol]

Ugh, it's been discussed so many times. For example, see this two-year-old review of a realforce at DT.

[fateswarm]

jdcarpe has a good point: they are still rubber dome switches and will feel like that to a lot of users. I let my wife try my new Realforce board and she laughed in my face and said, "You paid that much for a regular keyboard?"

Of course, I still feel like they are nice. If I could change anything about them, I think it would be that I wish they had a stronger rebound while maintaining the same actuation force.

I prefer MX over Topre, my HHKB has sat unused since the day I bought it. Ergo clears > lubed blacks w/62g springs > blues > Topre in that order for me. I mostly play FPS and a few mmo's though, so feel when typing is a lower priority than gaming.

For those that have used ergo clears and Topre switches, do you think they are kind of similar in some ways? I've never used ergo clears, but speculatively, they seem like they would have a similar feel to me (I've used regular clears). If that's the case, they may provide the stronger rebound I'd like, along with the similar actuation feel.

It appears ergo clears + lube is a common love. It makes sense to me since when I lubed browns I realized ideally one would want to lube a switch with a very strong tactile event and a more regularly strong actuation force since the event will be toned down to be just regular but still sharp and the force returned to regular light levels. Browns are still VERY hard to kill the tactile event of but you can damp it down easily.

[vivalarevolución]

Probably time to get a "Topre vs.  everything else" permanent thread.  But let's get of be real question:  anybody order their Alps or Alps-mount switches over their Topre?   Those Monterey blues sure are nice.

[laffindude]

Rubberdome keyboards without a capacitive mechanism do not have the same feel as the Topre switch. So I don't see how calling them rubberdomes (which we mainly associate with extremely cheap manufactured and bad feeling boards) serves anything but troll bait.

Have you tried a PCB based rubber dome board or one with steel backplate? They don't feel bad really.

[CPTBadAss]

Probably time to get a "Topre vs.  everything else" permanent thread.  But let's get of be real question:  anybody order their Alps or Alps-mount switches over their Topre?   Those Monterey blues sure are nice.

I do. I LOVE Alps and would happily type on just Alps switches all day. Clicky White and Tactile Blacks are nice but the Matias switches are nice too.

[Binge]

+1 for strange but satisfying alps love... it's like the shoebox full of ...porn I hide under my shoebox full of normal porn.

[fateswarm]

Wait. Concerning the Topre VS MX thing. Let me point out two ironies/circular logics.

1. Some went out of their way to baptize the thread to be 'Topre VS MX". I made this thread explicitly to be not about Topre VS MX but about people with MX AND Topre that prefer MX because I noticed a very clear majority of the opposite. I was ALREADY convinced the majority picks Topre (as it's known by most in the forum) so I was not interested at all in such a poll. I was interested in the more lost minority of those doing the opposite, in order to hear the antithetical dialogue more clearly.

Of course, one could argue that attacking their argument with pro-Topre arguments strengthens discussions but it appears that it realistically creates more of a mess.

2. The irony that is humorous: I was personally convinced that Topre is 'most likely' better than MX but the personal attacks I've been having elsewhere in the forum (and almost in here) had slightly shifted my view to a more negative one for Topre not because of a personal grudge but because of realizing if some people are so touchy about their favorite thing then it might not be represented well in their words.

I realize they may automatically assume I'm an MX apologist when I dare to touch their favorite subject since that might be the norm, but I'm not that, so it's bad for the reputation of their favorite product.

[keymaster]

Uhh, this forum is almost entirely dominated by those who prefer Cherry MX. How did you come to the opposite conclusion? I've tried Topre and as many others have long enough to NOT retain a Topre board. It's as simple as that.

[fuzzybaffy]

OK. I'm assuming the last post by the fateswarm is referring to me. Before people throw out accusations, why don't they actually read everything, before throwing out the accusations? I've posted already THREE TIMES in this thread:

1. Once. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44377.msg919395#msg919395

Again, not trying to say people can't like Cherry MX switches over Topre.

2. Twice. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44377.msg919448#msg919448

Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't or can't like Cherry boards over Topre boards. I'm just saying, let's not spread misinformation about Topre boards.

3. Three times. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44377.msg919554#msg919554

This is like my 4th time saying this: like Cherry switches all you want. But don't falsely characterize Topre switches. If you want to make comparison, make fair ones.

[fateswarm]

Uhh, this forum is almost entirely dominated by those who prefer Cherry MX.

You misunderstood the sample. I said it's dominated by those liking the Topre WHEN they already have a Topre. It's hard to find people that have both Topre and MX here and they pick MX as better.

[Dubsgalore]

I have to try out a Topre board before i trash it/praise it

hopefully at a meetup someday..

[fatmav]

Probably time to get a "Topre vs.  everything else" permanent thread.  But let's get of be real question:  anybody order their Alps or Alps-mount switches over their Topre?   Those Monterey blues sure are nice.

I would not go so far to say that I like the Alps switch (specifically the quiet variant from Matias) more than the Topre 55g I am typing on right now. However, I would say that I can see myself living with just an Alps or Cherry brown, but definitely not with a Topre. Topre, as nice as it is, lacks a certain satisfying feeling that a tactile mechanical switch can offer. As an (true) analogy, I find Topre similar to a CVT gear box. Yes, CVT is smoother, but it is also more or less"soul-less". For example, I enjoy rapid successive pressings of the backspace key on an Alps or Cherry blue or brown much more than on a Topre or Cherry red or black.

Of course, I respect that this is all personal preference. But to the OP, yes, I own a Topre and I prefer Cherry brown if I only have to pick only one. Fortunately, it's ok to enjoy my time with different switches at different times.

[keymaster]

Uhh, this forum is almost entirely dominated by those who prefer Cherry MX.

You misunderstood the sample. I said it's dominated by those liking the Topre WHEN they already have a Topre. It's hard to find people that have both Topre and MX here and they pick MX as better.

I didn't misunderstand. As I have already pointed out in the thread already, those have owned a Topre board AND preferred Cherry MX at the same time, are likely to sell off their Topre board because it is often too expensive to be simply left unused. Thus, you will be hard to find many people who own both Topre and Cherry MX boards, while preferring the latter.

If Topre boards were ~$140, I'm sure the number of people who own both Topre and Cherry MX boards would increase along with the number of people that prefer Cherry MX over Topre.

[fateswarm]

keymaster, your point on reselling was good. It must play some role, surely. I suspect though not the most dominant since I notice most people here are collectors, at least temporarily.

[keymaster]

Don't get me wrong, I like Topre, but I don't like the price -- $230+ is not something I can afford to dish out on a TKL Topre board right now. I am willing to give Topre another shot eventually, as it seems Topre switches somehow need at least a week's time to develop a good feel for them. I'll have to wait until there is more competition between the Topre keyboard manufacturers and something tells me that won't be too much longer. The Leopold Topre board is a great start towards lowering the price enough to be considered reasonable.

It's good to keep an open mind.

[Polymer]

Of course, I respect that this is all personal preference. But to the OP, yes, I own a Topre and I prefer Cherry brown if I only have to pick only one. Fortunately, it's ok to enjoy my time with different switches at different times.

This is a good point.  I prefer Topre for typing..by a lot...but I strongly prefer Cherry for gaming...to the point where if I could only have ONE keyboard, it would be probably be a cherry keyboard....Why?  Because I enjoy typing w/ Cherry..I just prefer Topre...but I really don't like gaming w/ Topre at all..not when compared to my Cherry...

The good thing is, I don't have to pick just one..I use Topre for work stuff and Cherry for home/game stuff...

[axtran]

I'm still waiting to purchase a Realforce 104U in White. I switch out my keyboards for fun... will definitely let everyone know if I prefer using MX vs. Topre, however I am sure I will still enjoy them all. Every once in a while I even switch in the Buckling Spring variants for something new.