Author Topic: Calling All IBM Model M - SSK Experts (Read 6840 times)

smknjoe · « **on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 13:21:35 »

I recently bought a NIB SSK off of a local Craigslist ad and another SSK from Ebay that is in excellent shape. I'm very happy with both of them and they both look like new. I have a question about the one that is "NIB." The seller did advertise it as brand new and after looking at the board very carefully I can't see any signs of ever being used other than a little dirt on the feet. That's just from us testing it though. I just noticed that the numbers on the box don't match up with the numbers on the board. When I look up the numbers on the box they come up as and IBM field replacement item. Do you think it was possibly new and put in another box? I've attached an interesting sticker that is on the side, too.

Box: Ship No. 1393279
ID No: 2006644
Date: 6-5-87
Plt. F4

Keyboard
Part: 1391472
ID: 2101951
Date: 9-10-87

fohat.digs · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 14:02:05 »

"Don't sweat the little stuff" unless you paid a big premium for what you thought was a virgin.

smknjoe · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 14:16:31 »

Nah, I got that one for less than the one on Ebay. $140
Just curious.
Even though it's not the original box I'm pretty sure it's about as new as you can get these days. The texture on these keycaps is great. I wish my Cherry boards had keycaps as "rough" as these.

BucklingSpring · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 14:18:53 »

It seams that you just purchased a NIWB

Show us some pics of tha board :-)

Speaking of pics... Are you sure you attached the right one?

smknjoe · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 14:21:51 »

I bought both of them about 2 weeks ago. You are the second person to question that. Why?

Xenderwind · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 14:23:14 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Sat, 20 July 2013, 14:21:51

I bought both of them about 2 weeks ago. You are the second person to question that. Why?

I think because its just like a shipping label and doesnt show any of the information you were talking about.

smknjoe · « **Reply #6 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 15:20:54 »

"I've attached an interesting sticker that is on the side, too."

Didn't say that the sticker was related to the numbers and all of the info I have given is enough I would think. I actually had someone PM me stating "are you SURE you bought that SSK." Obviously, more than one person thinks I'm lying and that's very insulting. So, I have intentionally left other pictures out.

...but you can still see one of the boards in my avatar.

dorkvader · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 16:54:28 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Sat, 20 July 2013, 14:16:31

Nah, I got that one for less than the one on Ebay. $140
Just curious.
Even though it's not the original box I'm pretty sure it's about as new as you can get these days. The texture on these keycaps is great. I wish my Cherry boards had keycaps as "rough" as these.

IBM has changed the surface roughness of their keycaps at least once. I like the keycaps that came on my model F's better than my new unicomp ones.

smknjoe · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 16:57:39 »

Quote from: dorkvader on Sat, 20 July 2013, 16:54:28

Quote from: smknjoe on Sat, 20 July 2013, 14:16:31
Nah, I got that one for less than the one on Ebay. $140
Just curious.
Even though it's not the original box I'm pretty sure it's about as new as you can get these days. The texture on these keycaps is great. I wish my Cherry boards had keycaps as "rough" as these.
IBM has changed the surface roughness of their keycaps at least once. I like the keycaps that came on my model F's better than my new unicomp ones.

Griptape for your fingers!

dorkvader · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 17:11:08 »

Compare/contrast with shiny IBM PBT:

(Click for full resolution)

rootwyrm · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 19:42:50 »

*puts on the secret decoder ring*

Okay, what you're looking at here is not what you think it might be. Not at all.

IBM SSKs have at least 4-6 part numbers, before breaking down into OPN, FRU, and FCN - Ordering Part Number, Field Replacement Unit and Feature Code Number. A single IBM part may have 8+ different numbers associated with it because IBM. Just.. just roll with it okay? It's IBM.

Anyhow, let's start with the shipping label. Nothing of note with the address - it's a part relocation shipment. I did those all the time. NBD. The company? That's ComputerLand - they were a large retail chain. They were also the first and only company on the east coast to offer the IBM PC at original introduction in retail. And one of the first authorized IBM service centers. What that means is, they got parts direct from IBM both as OPN, FRU and FCN.

IBM 1393279 is an FRU; specifically "84 KEY PS/2 SPACE SAVER." What this means is that this particular box was ordered as a spare and is labeled by FRU, and like all non-reconditioned / factory serviced spares contains a new part bearing the OPN. The reason they label the box with the FRU and NOT the OPN is because an FRU is used for warranty service and stocked spares, FCN for new order as part of a system, OPN for line-item/separate. IBM service centers are required to stock a minimum of X spares for a given part after selling quantity Y or having a customer with a 4 hour or SBD service agreement.

So most likely this FRU was ordered to comply with requirements for a local customer with 4 hour or SBD service on a SSK, transferred to cold storage warehouse when the 4hr/SBD lapsed or changed to NBD, and then went to the "well we can't sell it" pile and got forgotten about.

smknjoe · « **Reply #11 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 19:56:53 »

Very impressive rootwyrm! Thanks for the help. So, does that mean that the FRU would or could (in this case) have a different ID # (or serial #) than the OPN? I was hoping that shipping label might help.

I also see that I left out the Plt # on the board. Plt. 4

rootwyrm · « **Reply #12 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 20:48:56 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Sat, 20 July 2013, 19:56:53

Very impressive rootwyrm! Thanks for the help. So, does that mean that the FRU would or could (in this case) have a different ID # (or serial #) than the OPN? I was hoping that shipping label might help.

I also see that I left out the Plt # on the board. Plt. 4

It's entirely likely. In a nutshell, troubleshooting has always been an art which people are generally absolutely atrocious at to the point where they shouldn't be allowed to attempt it. An FRU means exactly that: it's a Field Replacement Unit. That means it must meet two requirements. One, it needs to qualify as a new or unused open box part. Two, it needs to be labelled as an FRU on the container and inventoried as an FRU and not normal stock.
It's not uncommon to find x86 FRUs with serial number mismatches because the tech was an idiot, ordered the wrong part twice, and packed the wrong serials in the wrong boxes. Or due to supply chain hiccups, labels being printed beforehand and the keyboard getting used as an OPN instead (again, FRUs are mostly just labels on OPNs,) and such. Plus some FRUs use 'alternate' serials or such.
If you look at the dates versus the sequence on the IDs, it's plainly clearly that there is no way the ID could be correct. There's a gap of 95,307 over a period of 95 days. That's at least 1,000 SSKs a day. I'm... just not seeing that - that's a production run of over 350,000! Mmmnope.

Probably it's an FRU alternate serial; most likely prefix "20" and FRU box number "6644" which has no relation to the serial of the part inside. Also of note, AFAIK, the keyboard FRU boxes were not taped shut from the factory either.

smknjoe · « **Reply #13 on:** Sat, 20 July 2013, 21:51:19 »

Thanks again rootwyrm. Your insight and analysis are very much appreciated. Speaking of FRUs and IBM techs, a client of mine recently had a RAID controller fail on an AIX box. The tech(s) had to order the parts 3 times before they got it right.

This board is a great addition to my collection and I hope to get many years of use out of it. There is the added satisfaction that I got NIB at a used price.

smknjoe · « **Reply #14 on:** Sun, 21 July 2013, 09:10:49 »

One more quick question. When I shake these boards around I don't hear any rattling from broken rivets. Do you think they are in tact after all this time? The used one was pulled out of a school. I'm really surprised how good the condition is on that one. Cosmetically it's very close to the NIB. The seller did tell me they cleaned it up though (I did have to replace a spring and clean it up just a little more.)

fohat.digs · « **Reply #15 on:** Sun, 21 July 2013, 09:48:30 »

My oldest Model M, a 1986 1390131, came to me with no broken rivets at all.

I also agree with a recent post that said that there are a lot of unnecessary bolt-mods being done. A keyboard with half its rivets probably still works properly.

That said, if this were a long-term "keeper" in my collection, I would do the bolt-mod, even if it did not enhance (or actually lowered) the resale value. For one thing, it would allow me to thoroughly examine and clean everything, and replace pieces that looked weak.

Then I could tune it to my liking by tightening and loosening nuts, and future repairs and upgrades (new springs and blanket from Unicomp, anyone?) would be quicker and easier.

Easy for me to say, I have the equipment on hand and have had experience doing it.

BucklingSpring · « **Reply #16 on:** Sun, 21 July 2013, 13:02:20 »

Quote from: smknjoe on Sat, 20 July 2013, 19:56:53

Very impressive rootwyrm!

Impressive indeed! Waow.

My ex boss had the squirrel syndrome. Him and his brother started as Value Added Resellers in the early 80's. They won major contracts in the bank industry and became gazilionnaires. They had to stock pile all kinds of crap including tons of IBM stuff. They had a warehouse full of obsolete devices. We used to call this warehouse the Jurassic Park. I think he's the one who sold the 9906753 crate to Speilberg.

At one point someone convinced him to get rid of that junk. He was told there was people out there crazy enough to pay good money old computer stuff. Back then he hired a geek like rootwyrm to price the stuff right and sell it on Ebay... Coincidently, that's about when I got bite by the keyboard bug for the first time and purchased couples of M's

Wildcard · « **Reply #17 on:** Sun, 21 July 2013, 14:07:08 »

Quote from: rootwyrm on Sat, 20 July 2013, 19:42:50

*puts on the secret decoder ring*

Okay, what you're looking at here is not what you think it might be. Not at all.

IBM SSKs have at least 4-6 part numbers, before breaking down into OPN, FRU, and FCN - Ordering Part Number, Field Replacement Unit and Feature Code Number. A single IBM part may have 8+ different numbers associated with it because IBM. Just.. just roll with it okay? It's IBM.

Anyhow, let's start with the shipping label. Nothing of note with the address - it's a part relocation shipment. I did those all the time. NBD. The company? That's ComputerLand - they were a large retail chain. They were also the first and only company on the east coast to offer the IBM PC at original introduction in retail. And one of the first authorized IBM service centers. What that means is, they got parts direct from IBM both as OPN, FRU and FCN.

IBM 1393279 is an FRU; specifically "84 KEY PS/2 SPACE SAVER." What this means is that this particular box was ordered as a spare and is labeled by FRU, and like all non-reconditioned / factory serviced spares contains a new part bearing the OPN. The reason they label the box with the FRU and NOT the OPN is because an FRU is used for warranty service and stocked spares, FCN for new order as part of a system, OPN for line-item/separate. IBM service centers are required to stock a minimum of X spares for a given part after selling quantity Y or having a customer with a 4 hour or SBD service agreement.

So most likely this FRU was ordered to comply with requirements for a local customer with 4 hour or SBD service on a SSK, transferred to cold storage warehouse when the 4hr/SBD lapsed or changed to NBD, and then went to the "well we can't sell it" pile and got forgotten about.

Not to mention a bunch of the SSK's were sold as replacement keyboards for existing systems. It makes sense that you saw the product code listed as a replacement item.

rowdy · « **Reply #18 on:** Sun, 21 July 2013, 17:05:37 »

Quote from: BucklingSpring on Sun, 21 July 2013, 13:02:20

Quote from: smknjoe on Sat, 20 July 2013, 19:56:53
Very impressive rootwyrm!

Impressive indeed! Waow.

My ex boss had the squirrel syndrome. Him and his brother started as Value Added Resellers in the early 80's. They won major contracts in the bank industry and became gazilionnaires. They had to stock pile all kinds of crap including tons of IBM stuff. They had a warehouse full of obsolete devices. We used to call this warehouse the Jurassic Park. I think he's the one who sold the 9906753 crate to Speilberg.

At one point someone convinced him to get rid of that junk. He was told there was people out there crazy enough to pay good money old computer stuff. Back then he hired a geek like rootwyrm to price the stuff right and sell it on Ebay... Coincidently, that's about when I got bite by the keyboard bug for the first time and purchased couples of M's

In the right place at the right time - lucky you

rootwyrm · « **Reply #19 on:** Mon, 22 July 2013, 01:24:18 »

Quote from: fohat.digs on Sun, 21 July 2013, 09:48:30

My oldest Model M, a 1986 1390131, came to me with no broken rivets at all.

I also agree with a recent post that said that there are a lot of unnecessary bolt-mods being done. A keyboard with half its rivets probably still works properly.

That was me!

I have plenty of boards with zero broken rivets. Which is to say: total broken rivet count is 5. Give or take.

Quote

That said, if this were a long-term "keeper" in my collection, I would do the bolt-mod, even if it did not enhance (or actually lowered) the resale value. For one thing, it would allow me to thoroughly examine and clean everything, and replace pieces that looked weak.

You cannot visually inspect the plastic until it's already broken, and you cannot visually inspect the backplate for anything other than corrosion. It's just not worth the hassle unless there's a real problem, and it's always better to just not touch it. Especially on the older examples.

tipo33 · « **Reply #20 on:** Mon, 22 July 2013, 06:15:22 »

FRU is "Field Replacement Unit" all Thinkpad parts fall under them, sometimes they get skewy if the changed antenae design or something wierd during a production run. Especialy on older models. I wouldn't worry about it.

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Author Topic: Calling All IBM Model M - SSK Experts (Read 6840 times)