60% board with extra right-hand column

[Hypersphere]

A few months ago I switched from a full-size board (IBM Model M) to TKL (IBM SSK and Filco MJ2 TKL Ninja). More recently, I became interested in sub-TKL boards, and I have tried the Poker II, Tex Beetle, and Leopold FC660M. In trying out the 60% boards, I discovered that I use the arrow (cursor) keys much more frequently than I had realized, and I really need them to be in the visible (primary) layer and not in the Fn layer. This eliminated the Poker II, as much as I like it for its standard layout and customizability. I like the Beetle for its exceptional build quality and dedicated arrow keys, but the 1x right-shift key and non-standard staggering in the Z-row are slowing me down a bit. The FC660M is just about right, as it furnishes dedicated arrow keys while preserving normal staggering and a generous right-shift key, and its Fn layer is highly intuitive. However, the right side of the Leo board looks a bit strange and seems to waste some space.

Previously, I had ignored 75% boards, but now they have gotten my attention. I like the layout of the Choc Mini, Keycool 84, and Race 75%, but I have seen some questions raised about build quality and Mac compatibility of these boards. In addition, I do not need a dedicated F-key row; it would be fine to relegate these keys to the Fn layer as far as I am concerned.

So, what I am looking for is something like a 75% board, but with the top F-key row cut off and put into the Fn layer. Another way to look at it is a 60% board, but with the addition of an extra column to accommodate dedicated arrow keys and other navigation keys.

The layout would be something like the diagram below. There could be considerable flexibility in the bottom row. I do not mind a very short spacebar --  I would rather have larger and more plentiful modifiers. Perhaps there could be choices for positions of modifiers allocated via DIP switch settings. Does such a board exist? If not, perhaps companies could be persuaded to come out with products having this type of layout. A custom board is another possibility, but I would prefer to buy something off the shelf if at all possible. Thanks for any suggestions you might have.

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[CPTBadAss]

I've never seen that layout. You posted most of the off-the-shelf boards that have the 75% layout. I'm starting to dig the MX Mini too.

I have a Siig Minitouch in the 75% layout that I'm really growing to like so it'd be cool to have that in Cherry.

Also your diagram is almost impossible to see on Nostalgia.

[SpAmRaY]

It's 'kind' of like the epsilon minus the function row.

[PepperPanda]

Samwisekoi is making a GH 65%.  The first prototypes were made but who knows when it's actually coming out. Could be 6 months, a year,  two years.

[Hypersphere]

I initially uploaded the wrong image. I hope that the amended layout is visible now.

What I am looking for is a truncated 75% board (75% with the top F-keys row lopped off). Alternatively, a 60% with an added column to accommodate dedicated arrow keys along with a right-shift larger than 1x. I can be flexible about the bottom row, and I actually prefer a shorter spacebar, although this can make customization difficult.

It would be something like the Tex Beetle with an extra column on the right side of the board, or a Leopold FC660M or FC660C with two additional keys in the far-right column.

[CPTBadAss]

No stock board has that layout. You'll have to mod a board, build a board, or commission one in that layout.

[daerid]

I think it was Matt3o who put together a metal 65% board with the retro DSA caps? That thing looked pretty sexy.

[CPTBadAss]

I think it was Matt3o who put together a metal 65% board with the retro DSA caps? That thing looked pretty sexy.

Yup, the Steelbeauty



From here

[esoomenona]

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[spiceBar]

To the OP:

I would suggest that you swap the locations of the Home/End keys and the PgUp/PgDn keys.

If you do, PgUp and PgDn end up being in the exact same spot they are on a standard keyboard, at least relative to the arrows cluster.

This makes your layout extremely easy to adapt to, as one only has to learn the new locations of the Home and End keys. The muscle memory for PgUp/PgDn is still relevant.

I understand the layout you have posted is meant for your personal needs, but I would not be surprised if it appealed to many GeekHack members.

If there is a GeekHack project for lobbying the keyboard manufacturers, I think your layout would have my support for a near-60% board, but as a starting point. In particular, more thoughts would have to go on the design of the bottom row. Many people on this forum will just dislike a non-standard space bar for example.

Meanwhile this makes me seriously consider the Leopold 660M/C again. 

[Hypersphere]

Thanks, Spicebar, for your positive and helpful comments! If this suggested layout prompts some action on the part of manufacturers and/or GHers making custom boards, that would be great. Perhaps if the advantages of shorter spacebars were to catch on, there would be short spacebars on offer in adapter kits or even entire keycap sets.

Regarding the Leopold FC660M, I have one now, and it is one of my favorites. It has an almost ideal layout. The only issue I have with it is that the choice of only two additional keys in the extra column lends a somewhat unaesthetic asymmetry to the board. It seems to need an additional two keys in the extra column, but Home, End, PgUp, and PgDn are already included in a highly intuitive Fn layer based on the arrow keys. In fact, I liked the FC660M so much that I have ordered the FC660C as well; it is on backorder, and I am eager to try out Topre switches for the first time.

 

[Sent]

You can always contact Kaliet and have him build you a 22Mini-EX.  It's not cheap but it's very similar to the layout that you want and also what BadAss posted.

I had the same requirements that you did, OP, so I just bit the bullet and ordered the 22Mini.  Definitely takes a while to get built, though.

[spiceBar]

@rjrich:

I'd like the heavy GHers (you know, those who have 2500+ posts) give their opinion about the best spacebar length to use, because I don't even know which one is the easiest to find. Then it would be great to consider this length as a goal for the layout, if possible.

I'm thinking about a layout myself, I would like to have some time to dedicate to it.

Regarding the Leopold: for the same reason as stated in my previous message, the Ins/Del island should have been PgUp/PgDn. If I had a Leopold 660, I would remap these keys I think. It does not matter that you can do PgUp/PgDn with Fn-arrows, we all already have the muscle memory for these locations were they have awkwardly put Ins/Del.

And I think we should not focus too much on the "wasted" space on the Leo. If you look at a TKL there is also wasted space around the navigation keys, but we use it unconsciously to find these keys just by touch. So it has its own purpose. And it may be a good thing that there is no key immediately at the right of the Backspace and Enter keys, because we tend to hit them from far away most of the time.

From an aesthetic point of view though, I admit that nothing beats a standard 60% like the original Poker.


@Sent:

Thank you for mentioning Kaliet and the 22Mini-EX. I have used the search function but found no reference about either of them.

Could you please post a link?

[alaricljs]

6.25x and 7x are the most commonly available after-market spacebar.  I think there was an odd-ball size in 7bit's R4. 

According to their literature, SP has DSA spacebars in 6x and 8x, DCS in 4.5x, 5x, 6x, 6.75x, and some sizes at 8x+.  Unless they show stock a one off purchase is going to be pricey.  Right now they have some 6x and 6.75x in stock (and some larger as well).

Also: 22miniEX

[Sent]

Thanks for the link, Alaric.

Also shot you a PM spiceBar.

[spiceBar]

@alaricljs:

Thank you.

Well... The Realforce in front of me has a 6x and the Filco TKL nearby has a 6.25x... The KBT Pure Pro on the other table has a 4.5x.

So maybe going for a 6.25 would be reasonable as to me it looks "standard" (as standard as the 6x actually) and it can be found relatively easily.

That's a starting point. At least it's not a small spacebar that would be immediately criticized for its size.

[Hypersphere]

@rjrich:

I'd like the heavy GHers (you know, those who have 2500+ posts) give their opinion about the best spacebar length to use, because I don't even know which one is the easiest to find. Then it would be great to consider this length as a goal for the layout, if possible.

I'm thinking about a layout myself, I would like to have some time to dedicate to it.

Regarding the Leopold: for the same reason as stated in my previous message, the Ins/Del island should have been PgUp/PgDn. If I had a Leopold 660, I would remap these keys I think. It does not matter that you can do PgUp/PgDn with Fn-arrows, we all already have the muscle memory for these locations were they have awkwardly put Ins/Del.

And I think we should not focus too much on the "wasted" space on the Leo. If you look at a TKL there is also wasted space around the navigation keys, but we use it unconsciously to find these keys just by touch. So it has its own purpose. And it may be a good thing that there is no key immediately at the right of the Backspace and Enter keys, because we tend to hit them from far away most of the time.

From an aesthetic point of view though, I admit that nothing beats a standard 60% like the original Poker.


@Sent:

Thank you for mentioning Kaliet and the 22Mini-EX. I have used the search function but found no reference about either of them.

Could you please post a link?

You have raised some excellent points. In particular, I like what you said about the "wasted" space around the navigation keys. Indeed, the eye needs some demarcation of different functional zones on a keyboard, and a wall of tightly tiled monochromatic keys is disorienting. In this regard, a TKL board has the advantage of setting the navigation island apart, but doing it in a symmetrical and aesthetic manner. In contrast, the partial island on the Leo FC660C or FC660M looks tacked on; it is highly functional, but not as aesthetic as one would like.