God damnit Topre...

[daerid]

Every time I type on my FC660C I just get more and more pissed off that Topres are only available in the standard staggered qwerty layout. I would absolutely KILL for a Topre ErgoDox. And no, the uTron doesn't count. Yeah it's split, but it's still staggered qwerty, which is dumb.

Grrrr.....

[dante]

Your signature suggests that you are flush with cash; go ahead and make one.

[daerid]

I used to be... until I had a kid thems is esspensive

[chill1217]

has anyone tried finding a direct source for topre switches?

[daerid]

The problem is that Topre switches can't really be "sourced". The switching mechanism is pretty much one with the PCB and the housing, as the parts of the switch that can be removed are pretty much just the plunger and the dome.

[Turkishrambo]

is it possibly to get topre switches from manufacturer(mainly the rubber dome and springs)? We need a custom topre. are topre keycaps possible for group buys?

[chill1217]

i mean sourcing the dome, spring, plunger, and housing.  i think there should be a way.  cooler master and ducky were talking about a possible topre keyboard, leopold has one, utron, etc.  there should be a source for the switches

[Michael]

You could make your own PCB to fit into an ergo dox body and take apart your leo for the parts.

[daerid]

You could make your own PCB to fit into an ergo dox body and take apart your leo for the parts.

I don't think the Leo has enough keys. My 87U would though, although a more likely scenario would be to sacrifice a Type Heaven for parts.

[Michael]

sacrifice a Type Heaven for parts.

This. Now... who's going to tear one up and take one for the community?

[ShakeR]

is it possibly to get topre switches from manufacturer(mainly the rubber dome and springs)? We need a custom topre. are topre keycaps possible for group buys?

I tried.  Unfortunately, from what I'm told, it's pointless.  Topre and keyboard engineers say that the switches themselves aren't 'hot-swappable' like Cherry / ALPS.  You have to design the controller / PCB specifically for Topre switches and the electronics are very complex.

Once again, this is just what I was told from some reliable sources.

[daerid]

Idunno about the electronics being "very complex", but a custom Topre board is definitely a fully custom proposition. The only things you could use from an existing board are the domes, plungers, and capacitive springs.

[Moosecraft]

This would be so awesome if someone made it happen.

[Topre]

If you are willing to spend a bit of extra money, Topre makes custom keyboards. It won't be cheap but it's an option.

[daerid]

If you are willing to spend a bit of extra money, Topre makes custom keyboards. It won't be cheap but it's an option.

Direct from Topre? "Won't be cheap" is likely the biggest understatement of the year.

[terran5992]

If you are willing to spend a bit of extra money, Topre makes custom keyboards. It won't be cheap but it's an option.

"a bit extra money" = Thousands of dollars

[nar]

Well all you really need is to print a PCB and get a controller to handle spring capacitive sensors if you have a Topre to salvage. I've always considered those Domes to be the hardest thing about the Topre design.

I was actually thinking about looking into doing one a year ago but I can't afford to sacrifice a Topre for the parts now that I stopped co-op and am basically just waiting around at home until I start my Masters.

[jwaz]

I'm right there with you, my dream keyboard is a topre board split straight vertical column layout with horizontal ergonomic rows. pipe dream though :/

[eth0s]

If you are willing to spend a bit of extra money, Topre makes custom keyboards. It won't be cheap but it's an option.

Hmm, I think this is why G*D invented group buys?

Can we get Topre to make us some ergo keyboards?

[Topre]

What's G*D?

The thousands of dollar per keyboard is correct for custom keyboards from Topre, especially for smaller orders.

[Findecanor]

And no, the uTron doesn't count. Yeah it's split, but it's still staggered qwerty, which is dumb.

Not really. It has symmetric staggering and thumb keys for Shift and Backspace.

If you take your time to compare symmetric row-staggering to the better common columnar layout, you will find that the columns for the middle, ring and pinky are very much the same except for the square keys being rotated differently. There is a bigger difference for the index fingers, but on the other hand they are more dexterous.

I haven't tried a µTron (Micro-TRON) myself, but I have heard that there should be some kind of built-in Dvorak support, or a version with Dvorak legends. Traditionally, all TRON keyboards have had some support for Dvorak.

However, it is very expensive.. and the keys are actually smaller than usual, which may not suit a male westerner with big hands.

[daerid]

Not really. It has symmetric staggering and thumb keys for Shift and Backspace.

If you take your time to compare symmetric row-staggering to the better common columnar layout, you will find that the columns for the middle, ring and pinky are very much the same except for the square keys being rotated differently. There is a bigger difference for the index fingers, but on the other hand they are more dexterous.

I haven't tried a µTron (Micro-TRON) myself, but I have heard that there should be some kind of built-in Dvorak support, or a version with Dvorak legends. Traditionally, all TRON keyboards have had some support for Dvorak.

However, it is very expensive.. and the keys are actually smaller than usual, which may not suit a male westerner with big hands.

You know, you're right. Never caught that before.

Yeah, key size would be a big deal for me (I got some gorilla hands). Plus, I still just love the programmability and layout of the ErgoDox. The biggest challenge I feel would be designing an ErgoDox PCB that's compatible with Topre switches yet keeps the rest of the components (to maintain Firmware compatibility).

[yasuo]

I quite interested

Yes,buy Type heaven for parts
Make membrane/PCB
Make plate,plate is round shape for switch
Cable for Connect 2 halves
Controller
etc.
yeah is not easy
 

[AGmurdercore]

Is this project really going to be so damn hard? I mean i don't understand much as i have never had a topre board but i am god damn pretty sure that there is somebody that can make this for some reasonable price if most of the parts are harvested from some board. Excuse me if i am super totally wrong tho

[daerid]

It's not that it's necessarily hard, it's just that there's no way this will ever be a group buy, and it's going to be rather expensive (have to sacrifice one of the more expensive boards on the market). And nobody's taken the time to figure it out.

I think the PCB is going to be a *****, too, since each capacitive pad will need a dielectric layer. Not sure if the standard PCB places offer that

[yasuo]

It's not that it's necessarily hard, it's just that there's no way this will ever be a group buy, and it's going to be rather expensive (have to sacrifice one of the more expensive boards on the market). And nobody's taken the time to figure it out.

I think the PCB is going to be a *****, too, since each capacitive pad will need a dielectric layer. Not sure if the standard PCB places offer that

Try,you give the topre pcb to maker pcb  like exprespcb maybe or other
PCB maybe Like this,my idea just RD without spring )


more details
http://deskthority.net/wiki/AppleDesign_Keyboard

[Moosecraft]

What if we could modify the actual switches without changing the feel?

[CommunistWitchDr]

If you are willing to spend a bit of extra money, Topre makes custom keyboards. It won't be cheap but it's an option.

"a bit extra money" = Thousands of dollars

Daerid claimed he "would kill" for a topre edox. The average rate for a hitman in the US is believed to be around 25 grand. (some are of course much cheaper or much more expensive) With that figure as a base, as long as Topre will make a programmable Topre edox for under 25 grand, daerid is in the green.

[eth0s]

What's G*D?

The thousands of dollar per keyboard is correct for custom keyboards from Topre, especially for smaller orders.

FYI, some people find it offensive to see the name of G*D written in print.  Some write it G-D.  There are many reasons people feel it is wrong to put G*D's name in print.  I will not go into them, let it suffice to say that I respect other people's feelings on this issue.

How do you know it will cost thousands of dollars per keyboard? 

Please show us your order history with Topre, or show us your email/ written correspondence.  I would like to see it.

Thank you.

[Topre]

What's G*D?

The thousands of dollar per keyboard is correct for custom keyboards from Topre, especially for smaller orders.

FYI, some people find it offensive to see the name of G*D written in print.  Some write it G-D.  There are many reasons people feel it is wrong to put G*D's name in print.  I will not go into them, let it suffice to say that I respect other people's feelings on this issue.

How do you know it will cost thousands of dollars per keyboard? 

Please show us your order history with Topre, or show us your email/ written correspondence.  I would like to see it.

Thank you.

I figured out what G*D meant a while after my post. I thought it was some weird acronym or word that I have never heard of before. I have never heard of anyone saying to not type or write it out though.

I do not know if it will cost thousands of dollars per keyboard, but I recall someone ordering a few custom video editing keyboards directly from Topre for around $11,000 each. A completely custom keyboard will unlikely drop to less than a thousand dollars if only a few are ordered.

A call will usually get you much further and more responses than a email or letter. Agreements between people may also not allow the person to show the email or proof of purchase/conversation.

[yasuo]

What if we could modify the actual switches without changing the feel?

For modify without spring

The spring is supposed to be 5 cN, I think. It won't affect the feel all that much, but the switch won't work any more if you pull the spring out The spring is part of the capacitance sensor!.

Nah if without spring topre so non electric capacitive.maybe you can make membrane?

[daerid]

FYI, some people find it offensive to see the name of G*D written in print.  Some write it G-D.  There are many reasons people feel it is wrong to put G*D's name in print.  I will not go into them, let it suffice to say that I respect other people's feelings on this issue.

How do you know it will cost thousands of dollars per keyboard? 

Please show us your order history with Topre, or show us your email/ written correspondence.  I would like to see it.

Thank you.

<offtopic>I thought the word "God" was something we came up with to refer to the Almighty/Creator/Spaghetti Monster without actually using his/her/its name in the first place. When will it end?</offtopic>

[czarek]

You know guys, I somehow no longer like Topre. I used to love them but their issues got me into using different keyboards and now I feel bad when I travel and I have to use HHKB. While the layout is perfect, I don't enjoy switches. They just feel so rubbery I can't imagine how I could like them! Rebound time feels sluggish and it somehow slows down my typing. Sure they are super smooth and when using it only couple days a month I don't really notice inconsistency in feel across the keys but I don't think I would enjoy Topre as a daily driver again.
On the other hand I can't use BS as a daily driver either. When I last tried using Model M for couple of minutes my palms started to hurt. I guess my hands got used to lighter MX Blues too much.