HHKB Pro 2 question

[adhoc]

Hi there,

long time lurker here. Registered just to ask a few questions before purchasing a HHKB. Hopefully, somebody will be ready to help me.

-how are the key caps on HHKB Pro 2 blank - do they wear fast (become shiny)? My previous keyboards never wore whatsoever (G80-3000LSCEU-2 and BlackWidow)
-any known problems? I know few were mentioning things like the spring pinging, which I'm completely fine with removing from space bar, for example
-anybody knows this seller? I find him to be the cheapest on this planet with price + shipping;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F8OECM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2S08KYBSZ4Y2A&coliid=I39SJB7VDRW80M
-what is the height of the board (39.9mm is the highest or lowest - bottom)?

Thank you for your time!
BR

[Linkbane]

If your BW keycaps don't fade, the HHKB certainly won't. The BW and most boards use thin ABS, which shines in a few months or less. PBT will take much longer.

[jabar]

Keycaps are PBT plastic, which won't wear as fast as the now-standard ABS plastic. However it's highly dependent on your body chemistry. I don't sweat much in my hands so even my worst ABS keycaps took years to shine. Others' hands can shine up caps in a few weeks.

I had issues with the keyboard being recognized on boot when I owned one, but otherwise the build is high quality. You might want to check out the Leopold FC660C in case you want a more normal layout with dedicated arrow keys. The FC660C is a lot sturdier thanks to the metal plate (HHKB is a plastic plate).

[dustinhxc]

Hi there,

long time lurker here. Registered just to ask a few questions before purchasing a HHKB. Hopefully, somebody will be ready to help me.

-how are the key caps on HHKB Pro 2 blank - do they wear fast (become shiny)? My previous keyboards never wore whatsoever (G80-3000LSCEU-2 and BlackWidow)
-any known problems? I know few were mentioning things like the spring pinging, which I'm completely fine with removing from space bar, for example
-anybody knows this seller? I find him to be the cheapest on this planet with price + shipping;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F8OECM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2S08KYBSZ4Y2A&coliid=I39SJB7VDRW80M
-what is the height of the board (39.9mm is the highest or lowest - bottom)?

Thank you for your time!
BR

HHKB is PBT like others said, thats the best you can get! Id use EliteKeyboards if I were you. Good luck!

[eth0s]

Keycaps are PBT plastic, which won't wear as fast as the now-standard ABS plastic. However it's highly dependent on your body chemistry. I don't sweat much in my hands so even my worst ABS keycaps took years to shine. Others' hands can shine up caps in a few weeks.

I had issues with the keyboard being recognized on boot when I owned one, but otherwise the build is high quality. You might want to check out the Leopold FC660C in case you want a more normal layout with dedicated arrow keys. The FC660C is a lot sturdier thanks to the metal plate (HHKB is a plastic plate).

Normal body chemistry does not affect keycaps.  The human body stays in a very narrow pH range right around 7.35 - 7.45.   A healthy body is therefore slightly alkaline (basic).  There is no acid in your fingertips.  No chemicals in a healthy human body will affect the plastic of your keycaps, be they ABS, POM or PBT.  What will affect your keycaps is friction.  The smoothness or roughness of your fingertips, as well as your typing style, and the amount of typing that you do, will govern how long it takes for your fingers to polish your keycaps to a smooth shine.  Some people with big, rough, manly fingers polish ABS keycaps in a few months.  Others take a year or more.  Regardless of how long it takes, the force at work is friction, not chemistry. 

With that being said, environmental pollution can and will degrade keycpas even quicker than all the finger friction you can muster.  If you introduce a foreign substance to your keycaps via your fingertips such as certain lotions with salicylic acid, hydrogen peroxide, or retinol, or other chemicals such as solvents, cleaners, acetone, alcohol, etc., you can degrade the surface of your keycaps as well.  So chemistry can play a role, it just won't come from a normal healthy human body.  If you have been exposed to a massive dose of toxic chemical poisoning, you might excrete some harmful chemicals through your fingertips, but you will have much more serious problems to worry about than your keyboard, if you are even still alive.

[1pq]

Hi there,

long time lurker here. Registered just to ask a few questions before purchasing a HHKB. Hopefully, somebody will be ready to help me.

-how are the key caps on HHKB Pro 2 blank - do they wear fast (become shiny)? My previous keyboards never wore whatsoever (G80-3000LSCEU-2 and BlackWidow)
-any known problems? I know few were mentioning things like the spring pinging, which I'm completely fine with removing from space bar, for example
-anybody knows this seller? I find him to be the cheapest on this planet with price + shipping;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F8OECM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2S08KYBSZ4Y2A&coliid=I39SJB7VDRW80M
-what is the height of the board (39.9mm is the highest or lowest - bottom)?

Thank you for your time!
BR

You can also get it for $260 from EK.
I own the FC660C, and as Jabar mentioned, it's definitely one to consider if you want a more normal layout and arrow keys. It's also about $70 cheaper (you can buy it on EK as well).

[eth0s]

Hi there,

long time lurker here. Registered just to ask a few questions before purchasing a HHKB. Hopefully, somebody will be ready to help me.

-how are the key caps on HHKB Pro 2 blank - do they wear fast (become shiny)? My previous keyboards never wore whatsoever (G80-3000LSCEU-2 and BlackWidow)
-any known problems? I know few were mentioning things like the spring pinging, which I'm completely fine with removing from space bar, for example
-anybody knows this seller? I find him to be the cheapest on this planet with price + shipping;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F8OECM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2S08KYBSZ4Y2A&coliid=I39SJB7VDRW80M
-what is the height of the board (39.9mm is the highest or lowest - bottom)?

Thank you for your time!
BR

Heh, i replied to jabar, and I forgot to address the OP.  I would recommend getting your HHKB Pro 2 for elitekeyboards.com: http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=pfu_keyboards,hhkbpro2

I don't know why I'm helping sell keyboards for EK Brian, he never let me win any Clacks, but, he is a good business man and will not rip you off.  If you have a problem, he will fix it.   Also more choices than your amazon.com seller.

HHKB Pro 2 has PBT keycaps which will not shine.  Well, not for years anyway.

[neunelfer]

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

[dustinhxc]

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

This is true, elitekeyboards now carries the spacebars.

[neunelfer]

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

This is true, elitekeyboards now carries the spacebars.

That's awesome! I didn't know that. Looks like they only have black, but I'm assuming wear on the white spacebar is much less noticeable anyways.

[rowdy]

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

This is true, elitekeyboards now carries the spacebars.

That's awesome! I didn't know that. Looks like they only have black, but I'm assuming wear on the white spacebar is much less noticeable anyways.

Mine has a noticable shiny patch

Eagerly waiting for EK to stock white replacement space bars ...

[Pacifist]

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

Why did the makers decide to do that instead of 100% PBT? crooked spacebars?

[Belfong]

I didn't know EK Brian is the Clacks guy! You learn new things everyday.

I have not transact with EK but the shipping is killing (to Asia) me! On the other hand, if you are based in USA, I'd think it is a no brainer to buy from EK because they gives you one year warranty and you could send the board back for repairs easily.

I bought my HHKB from Japan and the risk I am taking is no warranty for a year. Brr...

[tbc]

^ what do you mean about EK brian?

he's elitekeyboards, but he's not the clack factory if that's what you meant.  unless he got a new night job or something.

[PointyFox]

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

Why did the makers decide to do that instead of 100% PBT? crooked spacebars?

PBT shrinks more than ABS when cooled which can result in more warping than ABS, which is most obvious on long keycaps like space bars.

[dustinhxc]

^ what do you mean about EK brian?

he's elitekeyboards, but he's not the clack factory if that's what you meant.  unless he got a new night job or something.

I assume he meant that he is the one who sells the clacks for click clack. or if he didnt then that is what he does. Sells clacks sometimes for click clack.

[Pacifist]

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

Why did the makers decide to do that instead of 100% PBT? crooked spacebars?

PBT shrinks more than ABS when cooled which can result in more warping than ABS, which is most obvious on long keycaps like space bars.

Ah I see. What would doubleshot spacebars with a medium layer of pbt on the outside but abs on the inside work like?

[Linkbane]

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

Why did the makers decide to do that instead of 100% PBT? crooked spacebars?

PBT shrinks more than ABS when cooled which can result in more warping than ABS, which is most obvious on long keycaps like space bars.

Ah I see. What would doubleshot spacebars with a medium layer of pbt on the outside but abs on the inside work like?

I think the point is the edges. It might still warp. However, given that many keyboards have PBT spacebars and even Keycool can make them without issue, it's elementary that Topre would still use any ABS.

[adhoc]

Good morning everybody,

thank you for all the answers. I've read them all, of course, and will try to address them here.

I know keyboard is PBT apart from space bar, thank you for the info that you can actually buy a PBT space bar - that I didn't know. I always thought they can't be made because of how difficult it is to mold that plastic or something in those lines (hey don't blame me, I'm an ME, I don't know plastics ). I might grab that with the order too then. Considering I haven't wore any key whatsoever on BW in a few years and neither did I on my G80  then I can probably safely presume it will take about a decade to wear them on PBT - which is fine by me, if that would be the life of the keyboard (I'd probably get bored of it before, hah!).

FC660C looks very nice, but these small formats are all new for me - hell, I couldn't imagine buying a keyboard without a KP just a few months ago. So I've been thinking if I'd make a switch I might as well go "all in" (no pun intended towards Poker board ^^).

Anybody else had any issues with the board not being recognized upon boot? Also, I can't find any information anywhere about "NKRO" - is it 6KRO? NKRO? What is it? I read somewhere it's 2KRO but I'm having a very, very difficult time accepting that as a fact. I know there was a thread around here how many keys can your computer register and somebody wrote he got 7 keys on that test with his HHKBP2.

I do want to order it from EK, but the shipping is a killer! 60$ for shipping? That's nearly 25% of the board! Not to mention it's 60$ for practically anything I'd buy - even just one simple keycaps puller. Wow! I am unsure yet where I'd order from, but I'd definitely love to order from EK the most (not considering shipping).

[dorkvader]

I know keyboard is PBT apart from space bar, thank you for the info that you can actually buy a PBT space bar - that I didn't know.

AS far as I know, PBT spacebars are currently only available for cherry MX keyboards.

Ofcourse, I use a titanium spacebar

POM is an excellent spacebar as well, I am saving all my cherry POM spacebars, should I ever have need of them.

The HHKB has matrix support for NKRO, as most (if not all) capacitive keyboards do, but the controller will lower this. It should be 6KRO (plus modifiers) but I've never actually tested an HHKB to confirm this. I believe realforces are 6KRO.

NKRO means the keyboard has the ability to distinguish between all the keypresses. You could turn it over, press all the keys at once, and they will all register. but due to a limiation of the lower speed USB specification, the computer can only accept a few keys, so many USB keyboards will have 6KRO (plus some modifiers, I think 4) for a maximum of 10 keys pressed total.
Rubberdome and other membrane keyboards (as well as some mechanicals) have 2KRO, where some three-key combinations will fail.

I believe EK uses priority mail with insurance, so shipping prices outside the US will be a little more expensive.

about key wear: keep in mind your G80 uses PBT if it's white and lasered, POM if it's black and lasered, and only ABS if it's doubleshot. These high quality materials resist wear nicely, but if you didn't wear your BW much, then you're probably okay.

finally: welcome to geekhack!

[adhoc]

I honestly can't find it on EK store in PBT either (only ABS), but the guys here said they sell PBT space bars for HHKB Pro 2 as well.

EDIT: Ah, thank you, LOTS of info in your edit. Yeah, 6KRO is more than enough in my opinion as I'm not a hardcore gamer by any stretch of imagination. 2KRO could be a bit restricting, though. So that's out of the way.

My Cherry is black (-2 in the end of the name), so I think it's POM. I didn't wear BW at all, it was just like brand new after 2 years of heavy use. It is true, however, I take good care of my equipment (never dirty hands on KB, regular cleaning routines, don't eat behind computer etc).

Well to be honest I'd like to order from EK the most, definitely seems more trustworthy than some guy on Amazon. Now I just need an answer from them when will roofs for HHKBs be in stock again.

[dorkvader]

I honestly can't find it on EK store in PBT either (only ABS), but the guys here said they sell PBT space bars for HHKB Pro 2 as well.

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

This is true, elitekeyboards now carries the spacebars.

I think what he meant is that you can get a replacement ABS spacebar for when yours gets shiny.

[adhoc]

Ah yes, right you are, it's still very early for me over here so I might have jumped a conclusion there.

Thank you for the welcome and all the replies guys! 

[Air tree]

I honestly can't find it on EK store in PBT either (only ABS), but the guys here said they sell PBT space bars for HHKB Pro 2 as well.

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

This is true, elitekeyboards now carries the spacebars.

I think what he meant is that you can get a replacement ABS spacebar for when yours gets shiny.

I'm assuming the Rf sets use Abs space bars also? I wish they would sell a white space bar also

[tuxsavvy]

I honestly can't find it on EK store in PBT either (only ABS), but the guys here said they sell PBT space bars for HHKB Pro 2 as well.

Though the rest of the keycaps are PBT, the spacebar is ABS, which I haven't seen mentioned. This will eventually become shiny with extended use.

This is true, elitekeyboards now carries the spacebars.

I think what he meant is that you can get a replacement ABS spacebar for when yours gets shiny.

I'm assuming the Rf sets use Abs space bars also? I wish they would sell a white space bar also

Show Image

HHKB Pro2 or virtually any of the non JIS (HHKB Pro JP) variant uses ABS spacebar notably because of their length. That said, the HHKB JP is the only HHKB Pro range that I know of which has PBT spacebar. Now people can comment about how small the JP spacebar is.

Realforce 108KT is a replacement key cap set (offers in five different colours) offers the spacebar that is suitable for use with JIS keyboards. Meaning if one goes and purchases 108KT for their HHKB Pro2 for instance will find that the spacebar is small. The same goes with the HHKB JP replacement key cap sets.

I do not know if one purchases replacement key caps otherwise from elsewhere such as from elitekeyboards but chances are they would likely to be made of ABS instead of PBT.

That all being said. HHKB JP (at least for Type-S), the keyboard case is made of ABS. One may be rest assured that their key caps will not become shiny let alone yellow as easily but on the contrary their keyboard case will suffer all the effects of what ABS has. I guess the same case goes with virtually all other HHKB Pro series (except for HG which are obviously made of metal or metal related component for the case).

One can only hope I guess once Cherry MX compatible Topre stem comes out, will they see a PBT spacebar made to fit HHKB Pro. Time will tell.

Sources:

• http://www.amazon.com/Topre-Japanese-Replacement-Realforce-Sa0100-kt1/dp/B004U8IVMC
• http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/direct/hhkb/detail_keytop-projp.html (Japanese only)
• http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/notice.html (Japanese only)

[adhoc]

Could somebody, please, who has a HHKB Pro 2 at home measure the lowest height of the kb (at the very start of inclination)?