Author Topic: HHKB Pro JP -- Has anyone figured out how to utilize the extra keys?  (Read 2805 times)

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Offline sublime

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Hello all, I've been musing over purchasing a HHKB Pro JP version. However, I have read some forum members here haven't had success using the extra keys (such as Kana, etc).

Is there a definitive way for it to work on a PC system? Such as switching my language layout or something similar? I won't be writing in Japanese, but am interested if I could bind them to be meta keys.


Thanks

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: HHKB Pro JP -- Has anyone figured out how to utilize the extra keys?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 19:35:31 »
Hi, not exactly sure what you mean there. I have HHKB Pro JP (Type-S) and I have the keys working fine on literally all of them. When one hits those kana keys, they send out a different keycode which I guess depending on which OS you use you could bind them for some other use. I have a thread on xmodmap (linux) with HHKB Pro JP here which I guess may give you an insight that they work (sending out as different keycodes): http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52123.0

The Kana functions on windows mainly works via IME system if I understand correctly. I have not played with windows for quite a while but there might be a way to setup shortcuts for switching between different layouts when one has Kana keys. Also on windows there needs to be other settings redefined in order for windows to see that it is a JIS keyboard (HHKB Pro JP uses JIS layout which loosely follows ISO layout with extra keys here and there.
HHKB Pro JP Type-S | Northgate Omnikey 101 | APC/"Clicker" F-21 (GOG3YL) | Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE

僕の日本語が下手です。我的中文也一樣爛。

Offline sublime

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Re: HHKB Pro JP -- Has anyone figured out how to utilize the extra keys?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 22:16:07 »
Oh hmm, I guess what I read was wrong then. Thanks for the info! I was mainly planning on using the board for linux.

Offline Jack

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Re: HHKB Pro JP -- Has anyone figured out how to utilize the extra keys?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 22:19:14 »
You could most likely use xev to capture what keycode it sends, and then use xmodmap to remap it to something more useful.

Quickedit - just noticed link in the first reply. Not sure if this was covered, got to [hit and] run. :P

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: HHKB Pro JP -- Has anyone figured out how to utilize the extra keys?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 25 December 2013, 23:33:04 »
Oh hmm, I guess what I read was wrong then. Thanks for the info! I was mainly planning on using the board for linux.
You made your initial enquiry more curious for me to ponder. lol.

For a good while I was having issues with DE specific setup and the more I thought of it at the time after I found out the issue it was the lack of numlock key that made KDE4 threw a wobbly on some shortcuts. The same goes with some of the other programs too that heavily relied on KDE's "feedback" like yakuake.

I guess I still have one apparent issue, I still cannot switch between vty that I have enabled. Though maybe I shall look at some hackish attempts like I did with KDE's shortcuts.

I must also stress that my setup initially was mainly done with all DIP switches set to off. Then, after solving the issue with KDE4 I decided to change it to Mac mode (DIP switch 1 on, the rest are still off). As a result I gained 5 extra keys and no other loss.

You could most likely use xev to capture what keycode it sends, and then use xmodmap to remap it to something more useful.

Quickedit - just noticed link in the first reply. Not sure if this was covered, got to [hit and] run. :p


Ideally xkb would probably be the best thing for a complete overhaul on getting HHKB Pro JP to work the way you want. xmodmap can do it as well but I guess (xmodmap) is a little dated.

That sort of reminds me that I need to make xkb setup working with my xmodmap...
HHKB Pro JP Type-S | Northgate Omnikey 101 | APC/"Clicker" F-21 (GOG3YL) | Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE

僕の日本語が下手です。我的中文也一樣爛。

Offline sublime

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Re: HHKB Pro JP -- Has anyone figured out how to utilize the extra keys?
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 26 December 2013, 15:55:30 »
Thanks for such a detailed response tuxsavvy! I'll look more into your linked post concerning linux specifically. I'm still on the fence of whether of not I should get the JP version.

Is it at all uncomfortable to write English with such a small space key? That is one of my biggest worries.

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: HHKB Pro JP -- Has anyone figured out how to utilize the extra keys?
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 26 December 2013, 22:07:45 »
Thanks for such a detailed response tuxsavvy! I'll look more into your linked post concerning linux specifically. I'm still on the fence of whether of not I should get the JP version.

Is it at all uncomfortable to write English with such a small space key? That is one of my biggest worries.

Not quite a detailed response heh, not as detailed as the link I posted.

Definitely not, the small space key is really just aesthetics issue. I have had lots of people telling me that the HHKB Pro JP spacebar is tiny/puny/small/etc. I always retaliate by saying that it would not matter to a touch typist. From QWERTY typer perspective if one laid out their fingers on the home row keys as they would for touch typing they would see the two thumbs are closer to one and another on the centre of the spacebar. This really then makes the need for a wide/long spacebar not much of a necessity.

Another way to look at it is I guess is to take rowdy, et. al. sort of perspective. On an older/used keyboard, look for shiny spots on the spacebar. On ABS and maybe POM the shiny spots are probably more pronounced than PBT. Those shiny spots indicates where your thumb hits the spacebar. I am sure in most cases it would be close towards the centre of the spacebar rather than the opposing ends of the spacebar. Some people may have weird way of "angling" their thumbs when touch typing and that may come into play when it comes to using smaller spacebar. Though otherwise on a more general consensus one would not be having their thumbs going on a weird angles just to hit the spacebar normally.

HHKB Pro JP somewhat follows the JIS layout. So if you look at any JIS keyboard, you will see they all have small spacebar. Though again that is really not that much of an issue to be frank. Here it took me a few moments to get accustomed to HHKB's small spacebar, mostly it had to do with the positioning of my hands.

To be really frank, there are some other notable issues when switching to JIS layout than the tiny spacebar alone. The tiny spacebar imo is really a small problem compared to say right shift being small and with extra key placed to the left of the right shift as opposed to ISO layout with an extra key placed to the right of the left shift. That and maybe the extra key before the backspace/delete key on the top row.

I have at times proven to others that the small spacebar is hardly an issue when one does proper touch typing. In fact when I got used to the small spacebar (which was only hours after I started playing HHKB) I took online typing tests and I scored a tiny lower WPM compared to when I was on full sized keyboard. At most I only lost three WPM but recently I took the same online test a couple of times (and having to learnt the JIS layout more properly) my speeds are again mostly fluctuating but instead of going slower I was getting faster. Speed differences are minimal within slow and fast but it goes to show that the small spacebar was not of an issue when it came to touch typing English words to be frank.
HHKB Pro JP Type-S | Northgate Omnikey 101 | APC/"Clicker" F-21 (GOG3YL) | Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE

僕の日本語が下手です。我的中文也一樣爛。

Offline sublime

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Re: HHKB Pro JP -- Has anyone figured out how to utilize the extra keys?
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 26 December 2013, 22:55:28 »
Hmm, what I was worried about was that I don't type the proper homerow style so I get shine on the far right side of my spaceba, so that could adversely affect where it had no effect on you.

Thanks for providing such useful input! Really appreciate it. Now all I need to do it mediate on this decision some more.

Offline tuxsavvy

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Re: HHKB Pro JP -- Has anyone figured out how to utilize the extra keys?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 27 December 2013, 00:32:52 »
Hmm, what I was worried about was that I don't type the proper homerow style so I get shine on the far right side of my spaceba, so that could adversely affect where it had no effect on you.

Thanks for providing such useful input! Really appreciate it. Now all I need to do it mediate on this decision some more.
Ouch that is a bit of a weird way to type I suppose. There maybe other ways to look at it including swapping the spacebar (and sacrifice some extra keys near the larger spacebar area) in order to give oneself a bigger spacebar. The end result won't be pretty but I guess that might be a viable alternative if you want to retain HHKB Pro JP I suppose.

No worries about input, glad to help.  ;D
HHKB Pro JP Type-S | Northgate Omnikey 101 | APC/"Clicker" F-21 (GOG3YL) | Cherry G80-5000 HAMDE

僕の日本語が下手です。我的中文也一樣爛。