IBM 5150 PC Model F Keyboard

[kilogeek]

I may get an old model F AZERTY for a nice price, this is the one that was used with the PC XT 5150



Can this keyboard be connected to a modern PC ?

The guy also sells the whole PC, anyone knows how much collectors would spend for that ?
(currently not working)

[Pacifist]

I may get an old model F AZERTY for a nice price, this is the one that was used with the PC XT 5150

(Attachment Link)

Can this keyboard be connected to a modern PC ?

The guy also sells the whole PC, anyone knows how much collectors would spend for that ?
(currently not working)

you need teensy

[kilogeek]

Thx, that's what I thought :/  Will digg how much it cost to craft it^^

[Pacifist]

Thx, that's what I thought :/  Will digg how much it cost to craft it^^

you can either buy $20 teensy or $5 pro micro. Pro micro is harder to flash and pretty crappy but does the job

[kilogeek]

Anyway, I found a guy who has 2 model M in his cave... waiting for P/N and price, from what he told me by phone these are BS models with the cable to keyboard connector

[fohat.digs]

Do not worry about dirt if you are good enough with your hands to take it apart and clean it thoroughly. Ms clean up extremely well after you break them down.

Many people consider the 3 "periods" 1986-89, 1989-1992, and 1993-onwards to represent successive declines in quality, although all are good keyboards.

If the price is $30-40 or less for a complete working M you are doing good. If keys or cable is missing, it will cost something to replace.

[kilogeek]

Thx I'll try to deal with 50 euro for both (+12 euro shipping), this is my challenge^^ Dirt is not a problem, I just asked him to test that all keys were operationnal.

[fohat.digs]

Thx I'll try to deal with 50 euro for both (+12 euro shipping)

It is good to have 2. That way, you can keep one completely standard, and do all your experiments and modifications on the 2nd one.

Also, the 2nd one will probably be a good donor to complete anything missing from the 1st.

[kilogeek]

Thx I'll try to deal with 50 euro for both (+12 euro shipping)

It is good to have 2. That way, you can keep one completely standard, and do all your experiments and modifications on the 2nd one.

Also, the 2nd one will probably be a good donor to complete anything missing from the 1st.

Or to sell it 200 euro on ebay, AZERTY model M are almost impossible to find nowdays...  or stocking them 10 years, they will cost 1000 euro ^^

(UK were smart enough to keep their £ currency, here we feel euro as a pain in the a.. and most french citizen just realize they have been deeply f....ed)

[dorkvader]

Thx I'll try to deal with 50 euro for both (+12 euro shipping)

It is good to have 2. That way, you can keep one completely standard, and do all your experiments and modifications on the 2nd one.

Also, the 2nd one will probably be a good donor to complete anything missing from the 1st.

Or to sell it 200 euro on ebay, AZERTY model M are almost impossible to find nowdays...  or stocking them 10 years, they will cost 1000 euro ^^

(UK were smart enough to keep their £ currency, here we feel euro as a pain in the a.. and most french citizen just realize they have been deeply f....ed)

You can get a new set of french keycaps made up by unicomp, I thin., Some people don't like the quality of unicomp, but IBM's keyprinting quality has also varied greatly over the years.

[kilogeek]

No need, these 2 model M are AZERTY

But anyway, you can't so easily change QWERTY to AZERTY as physical keys layout is not the same (enter key, left shift... etc)

Pics shows more than text :

QWERTY model m :



AZERTY :



AZERTY sucks IMO, the enter key is nice but IDK why they put this <> key instead of keeping a large left shift, they should have put it at the ² useless key place...

[fohat.digs]

But anyway, you can't so easily change QWERTY to AZERTY as physical keys layout is not the same (enter key, left shift... etc)

Changing the oversized keys to other configurations is easy if you are doing a bolt-mod, you just move springs to make other barrels active.

Without completely opening up the internals, it is not possible.

[wrwhoami]

IBM is good!
 

[kilogeek]

But anyway, you can't so easily change QWERTY to AZERTY as physical keys layout is not the same (enter key, left shift... etc)

Changing the oversized keys to other configurations is easy if you are doing a bolt-mod, you just move springs to make other barrels active.

Without completely opening up the internals, it is not possible.

I'll never do a bolt mod again, but first thing I do once I get these IBM will be to make the curved sandwich waterproof with silicone sealing paste.

[fohat.digs]

I'll never do a bolt mod again,

Do not despair so quickly. The first bolt mod is much harder than the second.

Only re-assembly continues to be difficult and frustrating. Also, after the bolt mod, cleaning and drying the inner layers is easy.

[kilogeek]

The main reason why my bolt mod failed is because I could not find 2mm bolts in local stores so I dit it with 3mm and it was a very bad idea...

Did any one tried to use metal rivets instead of bolts ? (the good thing with rivets is you get equal pressure on all points, plus no need to file anything, but if you missed something, it's harder to remove than bolts)

I wanted to do that with rivets but could not find 2mm rivets...

Another alternative to bolts could be to use thin nails with small and flat head, pull them with a pliers while soldering the nail-metal plate junction, then you easily cut the nail end.

Anyway, I'll only do that if my next model M needs a repair, if I ever can find an AZERTY model M again... so rare.

[fohat.digs]

The main reason why my bolt mod failed is because I could not find 2mm bolts in local stores so I dit it with 3mm and it was a very bad idea...

Did any one tried to use metal rivets instead of bolts ? (the good thing with rivets is you get equal pressure on all points, plus no need to file anything, but if you missed something, it's harder to remove than bolts)

I wanted to do that with rivets but could not find 2mm rivets...

Another alternative to bolts could be to use thin nails with small and flat head, pull them with a pliers while soldering the nail-metal plate junction, then you easily cut the nail end.

Anyway, I'll only do that if my next model M needs a repair, if I ever can find an AZERTY model M again... so rare.

I recommend patience. Order 2mm bolts and wait for them, they are not expensive.

Also, just because you ruined the barrel plate and metal back does not mean that you ruined the rest of the parts. Those are actually 2 parts that are easy to find.

[kilogeek]

The main reason why my bolt mod failed is because I could not find 2mm bolts in local stores so I dit it with 3mm and it was a very bad idea...

Did any one tried to use metal rivets instead of bolts ? (the good thing with rivets is you get equal pressure on all points, plus no need to file anything, but if you missed something, it's harder to remove than bolts)

I wanted to do that with rivets but could not find 2mm rivets...

Another alternative to bolts could be to use thin nails with small and flat head, pull them with a pliers while soldering the nail-metal plate junction, then you easily cut the nail end.

Anyway, I'll only do that if my next model M needs a repair, if I ever can find an AZERTY model M again... so rare.

I recommend patience. Order 2mm bolts and wait for them, they are not expensive.

Also, just because you ruined the barrel plate and metal back does not mean that you ruined the rest of the parts. Those are actually 2 parts that are easy to find.

I ruined much more than that mainly because not having good tools, no good light, lack of patience (when you assembly all and have 2 keys not working, you disassemble, try to fix, assemble again, still 1 key bugging, then 3, then your nerves start to fail...). Main reason I failed is also because due to the 3 mm diameter, I had to make metal plate holes larger and some bolts were not perpendicular to the plate, this folded the black plastic plate in some zones. The only regret is I sold it for parts on e-bay for 25 euro, I should have kept it, for the keycaps, the BS, the electronics, the shell... I needed these 25 euro to buy tobacco. Hopefully, there are much more crucial choices in life )

[fohat.digs]

(when you assembly all and have 2 keys not working, you disassemble, try to fix, assemble again, still 1 key bugging, then 3, then your nerves start to fail...)

This is standard procedure.

I have done a dozen bolt mods and not ever worked perfectly the first time.

My recommendation is an expectation of doing it 2-3 times, and do not panic if it takes 5-6 in the early days if you are not yet skilled.

[kilogeek]

(when you assembly all and have 2 keys not working, you disassemble, try to fix, assemble again, still 1 key bugging, then 3, then your nerves start to fail...)

This is standard procedure.

I have done a dozen bolt mods and not ever worked perfectly the first time.

My recommendation is an expectation of doing it 2-3 times, and do not panic if it takes 5-6 in the early days if you are not yet skilled.

yep maybe bu too late... why do you tell me that, knowing I'm already depressed, you want me to blow my brain ?   

[fohat.digs]

why do you tell me that, knowing I'm already depressed,

Realistic expectations prevent unnecessary frustration.

I was hoping to help you, next time, or someone else.

[berserkfan]

The main reason why my bolt mod failed is because I could not find 2mm bolts in local stores so I dit it with 3mm and it was a very bad idea...

Did any one tried to use metal rivets instead of bolts ? (the good thing with rivets is you get equal pressure on all points, plus no need to file anything, but if you missed something, it's harder to remove than bolts)

I wanted to do that with rivets but could not find 2mm rivets...

Another alternative to bolts could be to use thin nails with small and flat head, pull them with a pliers while soldering the nail-metal plate junction, then you easily cut the nail end.

Anyway, I'll only do that if my next model M needs a repair, if I ever can find an AZERTY model M again... so rare.

kilogeek, Azerty layouts are literally everywhere if you are willing to buy a terminal. Based on the picture you've shown, I have like half a dozen Model Ms and F with that key layout. And I'm typing right now on my daily driver, a Model M-122 with that layout. I simply got used to it because I could never find a Model M-122 with ANSI layout.

I am a big fan of terminal keyboards, as Fohat would concur. They have lots of keys so you can do lots of things with them. I usually use a Model F XT and a M122 and rotate between them. Occasionally I pull out other keyboards, but I find these ancient behemoths are still best.

For some weird reason, Azerty 101-key keyboards are indeed hard to find. But don't worry, if you are willing to do your own bolt modding and need the correct keycaps, I have them, and so do most people who own terminals!

[kilogeek]

The main reason why my bolt mod failed is because I could not find 2mm bolts in local stores so I dit it with 3mm and it was a very bad idea...

Did any one tried to use metal rivets instead of bolts ? (the good thing with rivets is you get equal pressure on all points, plus no need to file anything, but if you missed something, it's harder to remove than bolts)

I wanted to do that with rivets but could not find 2mm rivets...

Another alternative to bolts could be to use thin nails with small and flat head, pull them with a pliers while soldering the nail-metal plate junction, then you easily cut the nail end.

Anyway, I'll only do that if my next model M needs a repair, if I ever can find an AZERTY model M again... so rare.

kilogeek, Azerty layouts are literally everywhere if you are willing to buy a terminal. Based on the picture you've shown, I have like half a dozen Model Ms and F with that key layout. And I'm typing right now on my daily driver, a Model M-122 with that layout. I simply got used to it because I could never find a Model M-122 with ANSI layout.

I am a big fan of terminal keyboards, as Fohat would concur. They have lots of keys so you can do lots of things with them. I usually use a Model F XT and a M122 and rotate between them. Occasionally I pull out other keyboards, but I find these ancient behemoths are still best.

For some weird reason, Azerty 101-key keyboards are indeed hard to find. But don't worry, if you are willing to do your own bolt modding and need the correct keycaps, I have them, and so do most people who own terminals!

In what country are you ? You seem to have too much stuff, maybe you could give 1 or 2 to a poor french guy ?

[berserkfan]

The main reason why my bolt mod failed is because I could not find 2mm bolts in local stores so I dit it with 3mm and it was a very bad idea...

Did any one tried to use metal rivets instead of bolts ? (the good thing with rivets is you get equal pressure on all points, plus no need to file anything, but if you missed something, it's harder to remove than bolts)

I wanted to do that with rivets but could not find 2mm rivets...

Another alternative to bolts could be to use thin nails with small and flat head, pull them with a pliers while soldering the nail-metal plate junction, then you easily cut the nail end.

Anyway, I'll only do that if my next model M needs a repair, if I ever can find an AZERTY model M again... so rare.

kilogeek, Azerty layouts are literally everywhere if you are willing to buy a terminal. Based on the picture you've shown, I have like half a dozen Model Ms and F with that key layout. And I'm typing right now on my daily driver, a Model M-122 with that layout. I simply got used to it because I could never find a Model M-122 with ANSI layout.

I am a big fan of terminal keyboards, as Fohat would concur. They have lots of keys so you can do lots of things with them. I usually use a Model F XT and a M122 and rotate between them. Occasionally I pull out other keyboards, but I find these ancient behemoths are still best.

For some weird reason, Azerty 101-key keyboards are indeed hard to find. But don't worry, if you are willing to do your own bolt modding and need the correct keycaps, I have them, and so do most people who own terminals!

In what country are you ? You seem to have too much stuff, maybe you could give 1 or 2 to a poor french guy ?

the French are poor? Hey I have to work for a living. In socialist France all you need is to strike, demonstrate, or burn some cars to get welfare.

20 shipped; I ain't the leftist socialist state.

[kilogeek]

I totally agree...  we have been infiltrated by KGB after WW2 and our politics suck a lot... But what can I do, as a simple cityzen ? Leave ? No. Grass is not nicer in other countries, we have one of the best social protection in the world. I said I was poor, but this is very relative, I have a flat, a dog, can smoke, can eat, can do sport... nothing to complain about. When I say I'm poor it's a kind of humoristic style I like to write^^

[berserkfan]

I totally agree...  we have been infiltrated by KGB after WW2 and our politics suck a lot... But what can I do, as a simple cityzen ? Leave ? No. Grass is not nicer in other countries, we have one of the best social protection in the world. I said I was poor, but this is very relative, I have a flat, a dog, can smoke, can eat, can do sport... nothing to complain about. When I say I'm poor it's a kind of humoristic style I like to write^^

I can't imagine any middle to lower class French person wanting to leave. It's like a socialist paradise. But if you're rich or hardworking, I can't imagine all the ****ty treatment you get from the rest of the country including the government and the intellectuals.

I may not be rich, but at least my country makes it possible for hard work to be rewarded and lazy people to be marginalized, so no complaints there. I'm the kind of guy who would support voting rights to be allocated according to net taxes paid (ie taxes paid minus welfare and incentives and rebates). Freeloaders and bums should not have a similar say in the functioning of government, since they don't pay!

No taxation without representation. But it should also work the other way. No representation if you don't pay taxes!