Best key switches for writing code?

[overthetop]

Hi guys,

Can you advice me what is the best keyboard for writing code? I mean, which switches are the best? Are Topre switches, or MX Green switches (they are too loud for the office env.) or something else. I am currently using MX Brown switches.

[CPTBadAss]

The ones you're most comfortable with. If there was a best switch for coding, all the coders would use the same switch.

[hoggy]

Nothing wrong with the browns. 

CASE tools and copy/paste can make more of an impact.

[davkol]

MX Clear, obviously. At least the marketing campaign for the Code keyboard said so.

[overthetop]

Actually I can't test all of those unless I buy some first. The only place from where I can get some of these is the web.
Yes I know that code keyboards are saying Clear switch but do you have any experience with those? I need firsthand advice about that!

[PointyFox]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

[QuadGMoto]

In reading through GH, it's pretty clear that that keyboard users generally fall into two categories, typists (touch typing) and gamers. Coding falls into the typing category, though unlike writing sentences, it involves far more non-alphanumeric characters.

Gamers tend to like linear switches, those where there's no felt bump at the point of actuation. Those switches are usually MX reds and blacks (the color of the stem to indicate the switch's properties). IMHO, though the MX browns do have a tactile bump at actuation, it's so minimal that I call them dirty reds, not really tactile switches.

Typists tend to prefer switches with a tactile bump at the point of actuation. Switches like the MX blues, greens, and whites are designed not only to have a felt bump, but also to make a definite audible click at activation. Others, like the MX browns (dirty reds) and clears are designed to produce a tactile bump without explicitly making a noise. (They still make noise, but that's incidental. They are quieter than the "clicky" switches.)

Within each of the three basic types (linear, clicky tactile, quiet tactile) there are differing levels of force required to press them down. The lightest of them (reds, blues, browns) need about 55 grams of force to activate. The middle ones (greens, clears) need about 65-70 grams. And the heaviest ones (blacks, whites) need about 80 grams.

If you're not sure which force you prefer, here's an easy test you can do. Nickels weigh 5 grams each. Carefully put a stack of them on on a key on your current keyboard, adding one nickel at a time until it activates the key. Do this a couple of times, being careful not to let your fingers add any pressure in addition to the weight of the nickels. If you like the force needed for your current keyboard, look for a switch that's about the same weight. If you want something lighter, now you know what that is.

I've focused on MX type switches (genuine and compatible) because that's what I'm most familiar with. There are guys here that swear by other types of switches as well. The buckling spring type of switch is best known as being used on old IBM keyboards from the early nineties. (Too heavy for my taste.) The one that gets the most raves by those who have used them for a while is Topre. (I've never had the chance to try them.) Apparently they fall into the quiet tactile category and their tactility is smoother than the MX style switches. They don't use stem color, but actual stated weights to identify the variants.

Personally, I'm using MX blues for my main keyboard. (a Truly Ergonomic) When I build a custom keyboard, I'm planning to use MX clears with a lighter spring in them to get the better tactility of the clears (compared to the browns), but the lighter weight of the blues without the noise.

Then again, you might prefer a linear switch with a 120 gram spring in it.  It really does come down to personal preference.

[overthetop]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

It seems that you have just recommended me to use all of them . The question is "Which one from these is the best by your experience?".

[SpAmRaY]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

It seems that you have just recommended me to use all of them . The question is "Which one from these is the best by your experience?".

Nobody can really tell you what switch will be best for you unfortunately.

[PointyFox]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

It seems that you have just recommended me to use all of them . The question is "Which one from these is the best by your experience?".

I'd say it's a tie between Topre/brown/clear/blue.  Topre if you think you would prefer smooth and less snappy feeling rubber domes and prefer the actuation point closer to the top of the keystroke, brown if you like ... brown better, blue if you want a light, snappy key that makes a click noise, and clear if you wish brown had a little more force to it.

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

It seems that you have just recommended me to use all of them . The question is "Which one from these is the best by your experience?".

Nobody can really tell you what switch will be best for you unfortunately.

Except me  )

[overthetop]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

It seems that you have just recommended me to use all of them . The question is "Which one from these is the best by your experience?".

Thanks I really think to try that thing you suggested with the nickles. Maybe I am not satisfied with the browns because they are too light and sometimes I press the wrong key. They are pretty good for typing I think but coding and typing are a little bit different. I tend to make a lot more mistakes when I am coding. Is there any comparison of the different Topre switches that require different force?

[overthetop]

I'd say it's a tie between Topre/brown/clear/blue.  Topre if you think you would prefer smooth and less snappy feeling rubber domes and prefer the actuation point closer to the top of the keystroke, brown if you like ... brown better, blue if you want a light, snappy key that makes a click noise, and clear if you wish brown had a little more force to it.

I don't care about the sound so much. The quiet the better. But I do care about the force and it seems that it should be greater than the browns.

[Rewind]

Last night I read a great post regarding this exact question. The person answering worded it differently but what he/she said was that basically you should think of a favorite key switch as if it's your music taste. This will be completely different per individual.

As far as I know brown switches are the most popular. I recommend getting an MX switch tester to try each of them out yourself, or just go for the best switches right away; Topre! 

[QuadGMoto]

I don't care about the sound so much. The quiet the better. But I do care about the force and it seems that it should be greater than the browns.

It sounds like you would prefer the clears or greens. Something like one of these should help you decide.

[PointyFox]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

It seems that you have just recommended me to use all of them . The question is "Which one from these is the best by your experience?".

Thanks I really think to try that thing you suggested with the nickles. Maybe I am not satisfied with the browns because they are too light and sometimes I press the wrong key. They are pretty good for typing I think but coding and typing are a little bit different. I tend to make a lot more mistakes when I am coding. Is there any comparison of the different Topre switches that require different force?

45g Topre is lighter than MX brown overall, but is a bit more tactile.  I don't have a graph for the 55g Topre, but it will be about the same as brown force-wise, but the tactile point will be more distinct on the Topre and keep you from accidentally pressing them a bit better since Topre has a quick ramp-up in force before actuating.

I've used MX black extensively and found mx brown a little light.  I have a 45g Topre and occasionally press a switch accidentally.  It's getting more rare the more I use it, but I would recommend the 55g one for you.  MX clear is a good alternative.  MX blue is a little light but heavier than browns and MX green doesn't have as much force ramp-up as the blues, which makes the actuation less distinct. 

[davkol]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

It seems that you have just recommended me to use all of them . The question is "Which one from these is the best by your experience?".

Oh, we haven't had a popularity contest for a while!

Let me vote for vintage MX Black thanks to the pleasure of typing on a cloud of boobs and the vintage aspect, which makes my code optimized to run on machines from the old days of vintage gear.

[PointyFox]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

It seems that you have just recommended me to use all of them . The question is "Which one from these is the best by your experience?".

Oh, we haven't had a popularity contest for a while!

Let me vote for vintage MX Black thanks to the pleasure of typing on a cloud of boobs and the vintage aspect, which makes my code optimized to run on machines from the old days of vintage gear.

Vintage mx black is awesome for gaming, but for entering code it isn't all that great due to not having a tactile point unless you bottom out all the time.

[samwisekoi]

I code a lot.  And have done so for literally decades.  For me, the answer to your question was decided years ago, and it is the IBM buckling spring keyboard used by generations of programmers.  The IBM Model M.

I have (I believe) every color MX switch commercially available on a keyboard, and use MX browns for things like forum posts.  And next to it (at home) I have a Ducky 108 with MX Greens for coding.  At work, it is a genuine Model M all the way, although I do have a customized Poker X with mostly MX Browns connected as well.

I also have an older Unicomp B/S keyboard that feels nearly as good as a Model M, but it is my cold spare keyboard.

So having tried B/S, rubber domes, MX Red, Blue, Black, Brown, Clear, and Green, I come out with IBM Model M is best for coding.  MX Brown with low-profile keycaps is second best.  Green is nice, but tiring.  I dislike Blue and Clear for coding, and have not built a White to give it a try, although I have the parts.  Topre seems nice, but the cost to buy and assess is too high for me.  I will try that MX-compatible Topre-style keyboard when it is finally available.

TL;DR IMO, IBM Model M or Cherry MX Brown are the best keyboards for coding.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[sth]

Topre seems nice, but the cost to buy and assess is too high for me.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

dude you have go karts and like seventy thousand dollars worth of coffee equipment in your office

[samwisekoi]

Topre seems nice, but the cost to buy and assess is too high for me.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

dude you have go karts and like seventy thousand dollars worth of coffee equipment in your office

Sure, but I got the go-karts second-hand and cheap, and the $2000 coffee bar is for the entire company.

But, point taken.  I'll give some Topres a try at KeyCon West.  (To be held in my office with the aforementioned go-karts and Espresso bar.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[Kliee]

Well, might add my experience and personnal opinion here.

As stated more early in the thread, the first thing you need is a keyboard you feel good typing with. That said, I don't write code the same way I write plain text. Most likely, when I code, I write small pieces by small pieces where, when writing a long text, I'm typing a lot more fluently.

And for those two style, I slightly prefer distinct types of keyboard.

To write long paragraphs without interuption, I like either strong touch typing style keyswitches, like Buckling Springs, or a more light bottomable keys like the Topres.

When coding, I prefer good, sharp tactil feedback with less pressure to put, so more like Mx blue.

But note that those preferences of mine are of a really small importance. I can code perfectly fine with my RealForce and I spent nights coding with my model M. I also wrote a lot of software on a Cherry G80-3000 Mx Clear keyboard and it was not bad at all. Also liked it for text editing.
Also, my school had keytronics and coding on them was not bad at all.

As it's personnal feelings though, the only real advice that I can give you is try . Try to know what kind of switch you feel good typing small pieces by small pieces of text with. Also, as said earlier, think about the global layout of the board, because you're gonna use a lot of special characters. Full size, or at least a tenkeyless without "layout compression", is for me the way to go. Then again, some here says the HHK pro is a wonderful coding board.

[overthetop]

Here it is a nice post on that forum that I've found interesting

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.0

[QuadGMoto]

Here it is a nice post on that forum that I've found interesting

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.0

Yep, that's good information. Just keep in mind that he's measuring bare springs, and the tactile function of fully assembled switches necessarily changes the amount of force necessary.

For example, in my own testing I've found that a switch with a clear stem requires slightly more force than the exact same spring with a brown stem.

[davkol]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

It seems that you have just recommended me to use all of them . The question is "Which one from these is the best by your experience?".

Oh, we haven't had a popularity contest for a while!

Let me vote for vintage MX Black thanks to the pleasure of typing on a cloud of boobs and the vintage aspect, which makes my code optimized to run on machines from the old days of vintage gear.

Vintage mx black is awesome for gaming, but for entering code it isn't all that great due to not having a tactile point unless you bottom out all the time.

I bottom out only very lightly, if at all... it's a cloud of boobs for a reason. Also, programming is the best game!

[jacobolus]

I don't care about the sound so much. The quiet the better. But I do care about the force and it seems that it should be greater than the browns.

You would probably like Matias quiet switches. e.g. http://matias.ca/miniquietpro/pc/

[Techno Trousers]

I'd say clears. The Code keyboard with clears just came back up for ordering today, so that's some good timing.

[tbc]

I would recommend keys with distinct activation points and long key travel such as rubber dome, Topre, MX Blue/brown/clear, and long throw scissor switches.  A full size layout is probably more important though.  You don't want to try to hit "backspace" and accidentally hit "home" while coding.

that's impossible.  home is in the top rightish of your keyboard.

backspace is to the left of your left pinky on homerow.

[rowdy]

There's a few people suggesting stiffer switches.  I prefer blacks or greens (currently using greens at work and blacks at home).  I would like to try BS at work, but my Model M is too big to take in, and I cannot find a cheap enough SSK.

And anyway, REAL programmers don't use keyboards, they use butterflies:

http://xkcd.com/378/

[daerid]

I've been programming for quite a while. Maybe not as long as samwisekoi, but well over 10 years. And I've done it on every switch available (except space invaders).

My personal favs are clears and 55g Topres (although I'm on a blues kick recently). But really the switch doesn't matter as long as it makes your fingers happy.

[rowdy]

One thing I like about tactile feedback when programming is that I can space or arrow over the lines of code and subconsciously count the number of keypresses.

I also sometimes work up a rhythm of repetitive keypresses assisted by the tactility.

That is something that I missed a bit when I used blacks for a while, although I do tend to bottom out a lot, so there was some feedback from the keyboard.

[blingcaps]

i've been using reds at work and browns at home for some time now, and i enjoy typing on both.  i actually like the noise that the browns make while i'm coding.  i've yet to try blues, but i suspect i would like them more.

[esko997]

At work I generally see MX Browns the most, due to the combination of typing comfort, speed, and also low-noise due to office environment. YMMV though. As other in the thread have said, its really up to you. I mught prefer coding with MX Greens.

[sth]

Topre seems nice, but the cost to buy and assess is too high for me.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

dude you have go karts and like seventy thousand dollars worth of coffee equipment in your office

Sure, but I got the go-karts second-hand and cheap, and the $2000 coffee bar is for the entire company.

But, point taken.  I'll give some Topres a try at KeyCon West.  (To be held in my office with the aforementioned go-karts and Espresso bar.)

 - Ron | samwisekoi

heh. i volunteered to package keys i didn't buy and i didn't get to drive the go-karts!

but thanks for the awesome coffee

[Oobly]

Trampoline modded Ergo-Clears with heavy keycaps is my personal preference for coding. They are quiet, tactile and feel great. Stock browns come closest from commercially available boards.

Try a few different boards if you get the chance and find your own preferences.

[geniekid]

I prefer MX Browns over Topre for coding even though I enjoy Topre more for straight typing because I like the feedback of the Browns for pressing and holding modifier keys.  If you're looking to buy a commercial keyboard based on switches, Topre may not be an option if you require a programmable controller for custom layouts/function layers (something I highly recommend for coders).  If you're willing to do some mods or assemble your own keyboard, then you have some options here:

• Different switch types for modifiers vs alphanumeric keys
• Ergo clears or some variation where you use one MX Switch for it's tactile feedback/noise profile but replace the spring to make it heavier/lighter.
• Installing your own programmable controller like this or this

[Linkbane]

Hey there, overthetop. Thought you might register on the forum sometime! Welcome, fellow Dvorak user.
For typing and coding, I would recommend to you either Blues or Topre switches. Since we've talked about typing quite a bit, I would think that it would be important as well as coding, and luckily both contain plenty of typing involved. If you're typing for a long period of time, lighter switches really do make a difference. I tried forcing myself to use Greens for about a week, and after 10 minutes of normal typing or even just half a minute at 130 wpm, I would slow down quite a bit. Considering that I exercise my fingers a lot as well, I'd say that it's more the switches than me.

And while Topres and Blues are very different, a simple summary is that Blues are very precise; you can really feel each keystroke, and it's great for typing because you can practice to not bottom out. Topres aren't quite so good for typing, but they are very comfortable and much gentler on the ears.

[PolaBurrr]

For some reason, I actually enjoy using reds while coding. Just gives a sense of flow and effortless ability why typing. However, if you aren't generally accurate while typing, then using reds while jumping around and hitting symbols and brackets may not be the best solution.

[jacobolus]

If you want the best feeling and don’t mind some noise:
* IBM Model F
* Clicky blue/white/amber Alps
* Clicky SMK (brown inverse cross mount, blue Alps mount, or white MX mount)
* Clicky cyan/amber Omron B3G-S
* Clicky black NMB Hi-Tek (“space invaders”)
* Clicky Matias

If you want something relatively quiet, and don’t mind that it won’t feel quite as nice:
* Dampened tactile cream Alps
* Dampened tactile Matias
* tactile SMK (several colors of inverse cross mount or white Alps mount)
* Topre 45g
* Lubed “ergo-clear” or “jailhouse blue” Cherry MX with o-rings

Or various more obscure options.

[phoenix1234]

Long story short, take any with the original Cherry MX Red, Brown or Topre 45g whatever you feel compatible with.

[tbc]

Trampoline modded Ergo-Clears with heavy keycaps is my personal preference for coding. They are quiet, tactile and feel great. Stock browns come closest from commercially available boards.

Try a few different boards if you get the chance and find your own preferences.

i haven't tried those before, but they really do seem like the quietest possible tactile as possible switch.