Looking for a new keyboard with some requirements

[Oscar962]

Hi all, I'm looking for a mechanical keyboard with the following characteristics:

-budget 50-150eur (if expensive, it must really be worth it)
-wired
-Italian layout (this is quite restrictive!), extended layout with keypad
-Cherry MX Blue
-linux compatible (it doesn't have to be fully functional including e.g. macro keys or media keys but it has to behave correctly at least as far as standard features are concerned, maybe even by using a "compatibility mode" switch which disables nonstandard features)
-at least 6KRO, 8 or 10kro would be best
-ps/2 or usb
-no trouble to enter bios (maybe even by using a compatibility mode switch)
-maybe not necessarily with pbt doubleshots, but at least without having keycap discoloration after a short while
-wrist support (if there is one) must be removable because usually I don't like it
-extras: backlighting (if present, I must be able to disable it because I sleep with the PC on), macro keys (edit: these two features are optional, not a must have)

Any recommendation? I'm considering the Corsair Vengeance K70 (with MX Blue), is it good? does it have compatibility problems with linux or bioses?

I'm even considering to use a foreign layout and then replace the keycaps, but I'd rather avoid that because of the extra cost.

[fleimi]

Might as well be compatible with the rest of the world and start using US ANSI international uayout

[Kayla]

just get a ducky and buy a wrist rest from the artisan forum.

[Kmynis]

Keyboardco has some italian filcos.

The filco does not have:
-extras: backlighting (if present, I must be able to disable it because I sleep with the PC on), macro keys.
-maybe not necessarily with pbt doubleshots, but at least without having keycap discoloration after a short while.

The stock keycaps are rather poor compared to some ABS DS or PBT caps. I bought the ninja version and used it for only a month so the print or color did not fade away, but I've heard people wearing the regular keys quite fast(a year or so).

Ducky Premier has some solid looking stock PBT caps, but I don't know if they have it in Italian layout.


They're both expensive, but you won't get away cheap with this list of features 

[Puddsy]

Something with all of those doesn't exist

Just get an IT Filco from keyboardco

[Oscar962]

Keyboardco has some italian filcos.

The filco does not have:
-extras: backlighting (if present, I must be able to disable it because I sleep with the PC on), macro keys.
-maybe not necessarily with pbt doubleshots, but at least without having keycap discoloration after a short while.

The stock keycaps are rather poor compared to some ABS DS or PBT caps. I bought the ninja version and used it for only a month so the print or color did not fade away, but I've heard people wearing the regular keys quite fast(a year or so).

Yeah I knew about the filco, I was in doubt exactly because of the keycap quality, considering also that it is not cheap. However I might buy the filco majestouch 2 anyway.

Ducky Premier has some solid looking stock PBT caps, but I don't know if they have it in Italian layout.

Not only is an Italian layout not available, but even a 105 key layout (e.g. German) is not available. Too bad, I like Duckies.

I think I could start considering to buy a 105 key layout (maybe German or UK) and then replace the keycaps to fix the key label issue. Using UK or German layouts gives me much more choice.

[Oobly]

Good luck finding good quality keycaps with IT layout characters on them. The ONLY ones I know about are from 7bit's group buy at Deskthority.

I'd either get a US ANSI layout board and get used to the layout or a UK layout board and ignore the differences in printed characters. I have a US ANSI layout board and can quite happily type in US layout, UK layout or Finnish layout on the same board.

The Ducky Premier is an excellent board with thick PBT keycaps and it comes in ISO layout.

[spiceBar]

Hi all, I'm looking for a mechanical keyboard with the following characteristics:

-budget 50-150eur (if expensive, it must really be worth it)
-wired
-Italian layout (this is quite restrictive!), extended layout with keypad
-Cherry MX Blue
-linux compatible (it doesn't have to be fully functional including e.g. macro keys or media keys but it has to behave correctly at least as far as standard features are concerned, maybe even by using a "compatibility mode" switch which disables nonstandard features)
-at least 6KRO, 8 or 10kro would be best
-ps/2 or usb
-no trouble to enter bios (maybe even by using a compatibility mode switch)
-maybe not necessarily with pbt doubleshots, but at least without having keycap discoloration after a short while
-wrist support (if there is one) must be removable because usually I don't like it
-extras: backlighting (if present, I must be able to disable it because I sleep with the PC on), macro keys (edit: these two features are optional, not a must have)

Any recommendation? I'm considering the Corsair Vengeance K70 (with MX Blue), is it good? does it have compatibility problems with linux or bioses?

I'm even considering to use a foreign layout and then replace the keycaps, but I'd rather avoid that because of the extra cost.

There are Italian layout Filcos at the keyboard company, I would recommend getting one.

You will not have any problem with linux.

Any problem with the BIOS would be a problem in the BIOS itself. If the computer has a PS/2 port, the Filco can be plugged in it, so you will not have any problem. If the computer is USB only, try any USB keyboard. If it works, it will work with a Filco.

Once you've got your Italian keyboard, you have plenty of time to look for high quality Italian keycaps.

I would also suggest that you purchase O-rings with your keyboard. I would recommend the blue ones. You put them under the keycaps and they significantly silence the bottoming out. Your Cherry MX blue will still "click", but the bottoming-out noise, which is unpleasant, will be dampened.

The keyboard company also sells doubleshot keycaps that are quite good (I have them on the keyboard I'm typing on and they are very fine). Unfortunately they are not available in the Italian layout at this time. And they are taller than the stock keycaps, so you cannot really mix them. Maybe you can ask someone at the keyboard company if they are planning to get some in Italian layout, or if they can get at least one set for you? These guys are really helpful, so you can try.

These keycaps are not PBT, but they are heavy, have a spherical top and they are doubleshot. They look very durable. And they are made by Filco.

[Oscar962]

There are Italian layout Filcos at the keyboard company, I would recommend getting one.

Currently I'd say the filco mj2 is the most likely one I'll buy.

Any problem with the BIOS would be a problem in the BIOS itself. If the computer has a PS/2 port, the Filco can be plugged in it, so you will not have any problem. If the computer is USB only, try any USB keyboard. If it works, it will work with a Filco.

Some say that NKRO causes issues with some bioses, that's why I was scared.

Anyway, oddly enough nobody said anything about the corsair k70, it seems it's a bit unpopular here. It seems that some early specimens with blue leds had defective leds which sometimes died months or even weeks after first use, but this issue should have been fixed by now.

[spiceBar]

There are Italian layout Filcos at the keyboard company, I would recommend getting one.

Currently I'd say the filco mj2 is the most likely one I'll buy.

Any problem with the BIOS would be a problem in the BIOS itself. If the computer has a PS/2 port, the Filco can be plugged in it, so you will not have any problem. If the computer is USB only, try any USB keyboard. If it works, it will work with a Filco.

Some say that NKRO causes issues with some bioses, that's why I was scared.

Anyway, oddly enough nobody said anything about the corsair k70, it seems it's a bit unpopular here. It seems that some early specimens with blue leds had defective leds which sometimes died months or even weeks after first use, but this issue should have been fixed by now.

NKRO forced on USB can cause problems, yes, because the way it is done is by simulating a hub on which several virtual keyboards are connected. Each virtual USB keyboard can send 6 keys at the same time (plus the modifiers which are not counted), and so the limit of 6 keys on USB is overcome. Some BIOSes want a keyboard connected directly, and not through some virtual hub, and that's why you can have problems with NKRO on USB (which is simply a hack).

The Filcos don't do that, so you are safe.

I have no experience with Corsair keyboards, but I would trust Filco more than Corsair when it comes to keyboards.

[Oscar962]

NKRO forced on USB can cause problems, yes, because the way it is done is by simulating a hub on which several virtual keyboards are connected. Each virtual USB keyboard can send 6 keys at the same time (plus the modifiers which are not counted), and so the limit of 6 keys on USB is overcome. Some BIOSes want a keyboard connected directly, and not through some virtual hub, and that's why you can have problems with NKRO on USB (which is simply a hack).

Thanks, I didn't know how some manufacturers advertised NKRO over usb even though usb supports max 6KRO, now it all makes sense finally.

[Smasher816]

There are Italian layout Filcos at the keyboard company, I would recommend getting one.

Currently I'd say the filco mj2 is the most likely one I'll buy.

Any problem with the BIOS would be a problem in the BIOS itself. If the computer has a PS/2 port, the Filco can be plugged in it, so you will not have any problem. If the computer is USB only, try any USB keyboard. If it works, it will work with a Filco.

Some say that NKRO causes issues with some bioses, that's why I was scared.

Anyway, oddly enough nobody said anything about the corsair k70, it seems it's a bit unpopular here. It seems that some early specimens with blue leds had defective leds which sometimes died months or even weeks after first use, but this issue should have been fixed by now.

NKRO forced on USB can cause problems, yes, because the way it is done is by simulating a hub on which several virtual keyboards are connected. Each virtual USB keyboard can send 6 keys at the same time (plus the modifiers which are not counted), and so the limit of 6 keys on USB is overcome. Some BIOSes want a keyboard connected directly, and not through some virtual hub, and that's why you can have problems with NKRO on USB (which is simply a hack).

The Filcos don't do that, so you are safe.

I have no experience with Corsair keyboards, but I would trust Filco more than Corsair when it comes to keyboards.

While that may be true for many keyboards it is not a fact. Go talk to Hasu. The USB protocol can support different size "reports", but like you said they are default 6keys+mod+padding = 8 bytes. With the TMK software you can send full NKRO reports using just one USB device (no virtual hub). This might cause issues with some bios's depending on what format they are expecting (and if they are programmed to handle variable sizes). That is why there is an NKRO toggle combo in his firmware, so you can disable it for the BIOS, and enable it when in the OS.

However, don't let all that scare you Oscar. As far as I know (someone please correct me if I am wrong) - The Filco doesn't do anything strange like that and should work with any BIOS that supports USB (which is anything somewhat new). You might also be able to use a PS/2 adapter if you have to touch really old computers.

Good luck with your quest.

[Oobly]

...

Anyway, oddly enough nobody said anything about the corsair k70, it seems it's a bit unpopular here. It seems that some early specimens with blue leds had defective leds which sometimes died months or even weeks after first use, but this issue should have been fixed by now.

It has a non-standard bottom row (and 6.5x size spacebar), so it's practically impossible to find high quality replacement keycaps to fit and the stock ones are... well, rubbish really. Read here for some more info on the board: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41795.msg1050987#msg1050987

Also, the LED's are run by PWM signal and the flashing is noticable and can be irritating to some people. Not an issue for some people, though.

So overall it's an okay board, but the keycaps issues are a real turn off for many.

[Oscar962]

You might also be able to use a PS/2 adapter if you have to touch really old computers.

Actually my brand new Asus Sabertooth X79 has a PS/2 port. Being a gaming mobo, I suppose it's there exactly for NKRO support.

[Oscar962]

It has a non-standard bottom row (and 6.5x size spacebar), so it's practically impossible to find high quality replacement keycaps to fit and the stock ones are... well, rubbish really. Read here for some more info on the board: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41795.msg1050987#msg1050987

Also, the LED's are run by PWM signal and the flashing is noticable and can be irritating to some people. Not an issue for some people, though.

So overall it's an okay board, but the keycaps issues are a real turn off for many.

Damn now that I look better, you are right, some keys are not standard. Finding IT keycap sets is already hard enough for standard keyboards, I'll have to avoid it.

One thing I'm considering is getting a WASD V2 105-Key ISO Custom (I could even personalize the keycaps a bit, just for the looks), even if I don't know if it's going to be a better overall choice than the Filco.  I've done some research and the choice seems to have come down to these two only.

What do you think about the WASD?

[Puddsy]

oh

wow I totally forgot about the WASD lol

the keycaps aren't super high quality, but if you're not crazy and typing for 8 hours a day you should be ok for a while