WASD PBT vs ABS

[connorelsea]

I'm new here and my name is Connor. I am a programmer looking for a mechanical keyboard.

I want to get a WASD V2 87 key keyboard but I am turned off by the ABS keys because I have heard of ABS' poor quality, and not only have I heard of their poor quality, but I have also heard from multiple people that typing on PBT actually feels better. So after I heard all of these things, I really wanted PBT. I have looked all over and can't find blank black, black PBT key caps, and I was pretty set on the really cool blank look of the WASD keyboard how I had configured it. I am going to get the WASD 87 key version without key caps (they sell the body and switches without key caps) and then buy PBT caps.

I went on the quest for black, blank PBT key caps but they seem to actually not exist! I found black DSA PBT key caps but I really dislike the look and shape of any kind of DSA caps. I found these ducky key caps that were perfect, but they are out of stock. http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=98

I am considering just settling for the black on black PBT caps (seen here http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=69 ) or some black on gold caps. I thought I found gold on black edge printed (on the side of the cap, not the top) and it was awesome, but I can't find where I saw them.

If any of you know of a place to buy completely blank black PBT key caps, or any side-printed gold on black key caps, let me know. Or if you have any suggestions of what I should do or if I should get a different keyboard, let me know.

Thanks!

[connorelsea]

This post took more than one day to get approved, so I have already bought the key caps. But if you have any suggestions then that would still be great. Or any information that I should know.

I bought these key caps. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PBT-Keycap-Set-for-Cherry-MX-based-Leopold-Keyboard-Front-Face-Englih-Black-/281377716241?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41836b3811

[IvanIvanovich]

You made a fine choice. Those are some of nicest feeling PBTs around.

[yomammary]

I have a WASD 104 keyboard and I bought the same keycaps. Didn't get them yet but everybody seems to say they are great.

[SpAmRaY]

You made a fine choice. Those are some of nicest feeling PBTs around.

^^ I agree with this.

[connorelsea]

I'll make sure to update when I get them. But the expected arrival is around October 22nd, so that probably won't be for a while unfortunately! Has anyone already got them? I'd love to see close up pictures of the texture or a good review of them. I've never used PBT before.

Also, would these be considered thick PBT?

[yomammary]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59780
This thread.

[phoenix1234]

@connorelsea:
I agree on what Ivan have said. This set is obviously one of the best sets of PBT keycap around.
However, since you are using WASD keyboard which is a Costar family,  I really don't want to let you down but I need to tell you that PBT set has a small issue with the Costar stabilizers, especially the Left Shift because of the thickness. You can work around this by carefully modifying the Costar inserts to make it fit. Other than that, everything else is good.

[connorelsea]

You can work around this by carefully modifying the Costar inserts to make it fit. Other than that, everything else is good.

To be honest, I have no idea what stabilizers are. I've heard of cherry, costar, etc. But I truly have no clue what they are. What are they and how will I have to modify it? Should I have not ordered them?

[yomammary]

@connorelsea:
modifying the Costar inserts to make it fit.

What is the modification exactly?

[Hypersphere]

This post took more than one day to get approved, so I have already bought the key caps. But if you have any suggestions then that would still be great. Or any information that I should know.

I bought these key caps. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PBT-Keycap-Set-for-Cherry-MX-based-Leopold-Keyboard-Front-Face-Englih-Black-/281377716241?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41836b3811

I have the same set except blanks instead of front- or top-printed, and I have been favorably impressed with the quality; it is a good value.

For top-printed PBT caps, I prefer dye sublimation printing to laser etching, but to be legible, dye sublimation this has to be done with a dark legend on a light background.

[Deadly55]

This post took more than one day to get approved, so I have already bought the key caps. But if you have any suggestions then that would still be great. Or any information that I should know.

I bought these key caps. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PBT-Keycap-Set-for-Cherry-MX-based-Leopold-Keyboard-Front-Face-Englih-Black-/281377716241?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41836b3811

I have the same set except blanks instead of front- or top-printed, and I have been favorably impressed with the quality; it is a good value.

For top-printed PBT caps, I prefer dye sublimation printing to laser etching, but to be legible, dye sublimation this has to be done with a dark legend on a light background.

Tape, ziploc bag, or scooping the inside of the keycap, so that the keycap doesn't smash into the stabilizer.. I need to figure out how to scoop these pbt caps..

[connorelsea]

I'm still not really getting what I am going to have to do and I am kind of concerned.

[yomammary]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41424.0

Check the image in the first post, I think we'll need to file one of the side of Left shift key (inside, so that the metal part doesn't touch the plastic when bottoming out).
I'll see when I install them.

[a Horde of Penguins]

This post took more than one day to get approved, so I have already bought the key caps. But if you have any suggestions then that would still be great. Or any information that I should know.

I bought these key caps. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PBT-Keycap-Set-for-Cherry-MX-based-Leopold-Keyboard-Front-Face-Englih-Black-/281377716241?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41836b3811

picked up one of these as well, in the mail will tell how they are on arival

[saint_james]

I have the exact same Leopold PBT caps on a WASD 104 ANSI board.  On mine, the thick PBT keycaps do not interfere with the stabilizers with O-rings installed.  Try the o-rings first before attempting to modify your keycaps... you may be pleasantly surprised.

[yomammary]

I have the exact same Leopold PBT caps on a WASD 104 ANSI board.  On mine, the thick PBT keycaps do not interfere with the stabilizers with O-rings installed.  Try the o-rings first before attempting to modify your keycaps... you may be pleasantly surprised.

Nice, mine is in the mail. I'm getting them today!
w00t!

[phoenix1234]

What is the modification exactly?

Most of the time, the Costar wire and the insert will create a resistance when the key travel down.
In my case, I did a little bit adjustment on the Costar wire, I used a pliers to bend it a bit until it can fit nicely. Plus, I lube the Costar inserts to avoid most of the friction. Eventually, the keycap set can fit into my Costar keyboard quite perfectly.

[yomammary]

What is the modification exactly?

Most of the time, the Costar wire and the insert will create a resistance when the key travel down.
In my case, I did a little bit adjustment on the Costar wire, I used a pliers to bend it a bit until it can fit nicely. Plus, I lube the Costar inserts to avoid most of the friction. Eventually, the keycap set can fit into my Costar keyboard quite perfectly.

I seem to have this problem. Can you tell me which part of the costar wire is hitting the keycap? Is it the middle part or the extremities?

[connorelsea]

Yeah I'm getting a little worried since I purchased a keycap-less keyboard and this key set. Will I have to do a lot of work to get the key caps to be functional.

[Hyde]

What is the modification exactly?

Most of the time, the Costar wire and the insert will create a resistance when the key travel down.
In my case, I did a little bit adjustment on the Costar wire, I used a pliers to bend it a bit until it can fit nicely. Plus, I lube the Costar inserts to avoid most of the friction. Eventually, the keycap set can fit into my Costar keyboard quite perfectly.

I seem to have this problem. Can you tell me which part of the costar wire is hitting the keycap? Is it the middle part or the extremities?

When you press down the key the middle part of the wire (the part that sticks out) will arc in a 90 degrees fashion.  When that happen it will touch the sidewall of the keycap facing you.  So what people do sometimes is shave off a little bit of the inside of keycap on that wall.

Yeah I'm getting a little worried since I purchased a keycap-less keyboard and this key set. Will I have to do a lot of work to get the key caps to be functional.

You'd only feel this when you bottom out, and even so it doesn't interfere with keycap function.  It just makes it feel more like Cherry stabilizer.

So it will still be usable don't worry. 

[taylordcraig]

I am really disappointed that the "`~" and "\|" keys aren't included in both colors

I am too. I've always been a huge proponent of including symmetry sets for those who prefer symmetry to tradition.

Forgot to mention that, LED keycaps have pad print on them instead of doubleshot.

Could you drop my LED caps from my order then?  I was thinking they'd be double shot.

In regards to ABS vs PBT: It is all preference, but there are things to note about each material.
PBT often has a more textured, or rough feeling to the plastic.
ABS is usually smoother.
ABS wears faster, and as a result will shine; this creates a slick, almost sticky feeling between the plastic and your finger as your skin grips it.
Some people LOVE this feeling and a worn ABS set will be their preferred cap.
I personally can't stand the look of shine, but DO like the feel of thick ABS.
No matter PBT or ABS I love the feeling of thick caps.
There isn't a good way to describe it other than thick cap feels chunkier, and more stable while typing.
The sound of bottoming out is deeper and feels clunkier rather than clinkier.

[yomammary]

What is the modification exactly?

Most of the time, the Costar wire and the insert will create a resistance when the key travel down.
In my case, I did a little bit adjustment on the Costar wire, I used a pliers to bend it a bit until it can fit nicely. Plus, I lube the Costar inserts to avoid most of the friction. Eventually, the keycap set can fit into my Costar keyboard quite perfectly.

I seem to have this problem. Can you tell me which part of the costar wire is hitting the keycap? Is it the middle part or the extremities?

When you press down the key the middle part of the wire (the part that sticks out) will arc in a 90 degrees fashion.  When that happen it will touch the sidewall of the keycap facing you.  So what people do sometimes is shave off a little bit of the inside of keycap on that wall.

Yeah I'm getting a little worried since I purchased a keycap-less keyboard and this key set. Will I have to do a lot of work to get the key caps to be functional.

You'd only feel this when you bottom out, and even so it doesn't interfere with keycap function.  It just makes it feel more like Cherry stabilizer.

So it will still be usable don't worry. 

Actually it seems to be better now. No idea what happened exactly, but all the keys with stabilizers are fine now.

[taylordcraig]

My bet is the wire bent slightly after bottoming out a few times. Glad it worked out for you!

[connorelsea]

Got my keyboard when I came home from boarding school, but my key caps haven't arrived yet. It says that Origin Mail in Korea was preparing shipping, and then that they were processed through San Francisco on the 20th. I am in Baton Rouge, LA. Hopefully they will get here tomorrow, because I go back to boarding school on Sunday!

It sucks to have my first mechanical keyboard, but have no key caps!

Here are some pictures I took of it. https://imgur.com/a/dsz6N

[a Horde of Penguins]

sorry man but youre probably gonna have to wait awhile, mine was processed through LA 5 days ago and im still waiting T_T

[connorelsea]

Yeah I think originally it said anywhere from October 22nd to November 4th. Hopefully it doesn't take /that/ long. But it does suck having my first mech but having no freaking keys.

[JDorfler]

I've got a WASD V.2 with the OEM caps.  I like them, but then again the only thing I have to compare them too is cheapy Logitech Keyboard Keys and Razer Blackwidow 2014 keys.  I don't know if it's the knock off switches in the Razer or the keys themselves that make the Blackwidow feel a bit more flimsy and weak compared to the WASD, but the WASD typing experience just seems solid.

I guess I'll have to try PBT keys one day so I can make a more informed opinion.

[Sov]

Yep, great choice of keycap.  Received my Novatouch a few weeks ago and the stock caps on it were horrible, so I grabbed a Navy set of the ones you posted and they're great.  Wasn't completely sold on them for a few days because I was hoping they'd have a more textured feel like some of the other PBT caps I have on other boards, but now I love them.

[_PixelNinja]

Yep, great choice of keycap.  Received my Novatouch a few weeks ago and the stock caps on it were horrible, so I grabbed a Navy set of the ones you posted and they're great.  Wasn't completely sold on them for a few days because I was hoping they'd have a more textured feel like some of the other PBT caps I have on other boards, but now I love them.

You wouldn't have any pictures portraying the color difference between the black casing of the Novatouch and the navy Leos by any chance?

[pbtforever]

I've got a WASD V.2 with the OEM caps.  I like them, but then again the only thing I have to compare them too is cheapy Logitech Keyboard Keys and Razer Blackwidow 2014 keys.  I don't know if it's the knock off switches in the Razer or the keys themselves that make the Blackwidow feel a bit more flimsy and weak compared to the WASD, but the WASD typing experience just seems solid.

I guess I'll have to try PBT keys one day so I can make a more informed opinion.

PBT forever.

[taylordcraig]

Haha, PBT is biased.
It's preference for both profile and material.
I hate OEM and DCS.
Wouldn't buy either in any material.
I've tried a crap ton of key sets.
I really enjoy PBT DSA from Signature Plastics. [Like Granite, or their blank sets.]
Their ABS SA is also really nice.
OG and GMK Cherry ABS feel really nice too.
BSP/Imsto and other pbt sets feel nice too, less rough than DSA PBT.
You gotta try them all.
I currently use either OG Cherry ABS or DSA PBT.
I haven't tried any pom though. 

[a Horde of Penguins]

theyer way to thick for my das, much sanding to do

[Hypersphere]

I much prefer PBT keycaps. They always feel agreeably dry, like sun-bleached bones in the desert. I also enjoy the various textures. Vintage PBT caps on IBM keyboards feel smooth, but dry. I had a white KC84 whose PBT caps felt like pumice stones. The caps on my Topre RF 87ub 55g have an intermediate texture between smooth and pumice. I like them all -- especially the ones with nice dye-sublimated legends, as on my RF, HHKB, and vintage IBM keyboards.

In contrast, although I appreciate the appearance of some of my ABS doubleshots, these and my other ABS caps feel clammy.