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Author Topic: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?  (Read 8489 times)

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Offline Hypersphere

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Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 14:37:19 »
What are some sources for Alps (or Matias) keycaps, preferably dye-sublimated PBT, but as a second choice, doubleshot ABS? If there are commercial suppliers, that would be great, but if these do not exist, which keyboards could be used as donors for dye-sub PBT or doubleshot ABS Alps keycaps?

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Offline Puddsy

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Re: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 15:09:38 »
SP
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 15:11:45 »
Tai Hao?

Horrendous MOQ though.
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Offline Puddsy

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Re: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 15:15:36 »
The real issue isn't MOQ as much as it is that there's no standard ALPS layout/stab combo.

My 1087 has different stabs than CPT's kingsaver, or Nubs's M0116.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 15:17:28 »
The nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from.
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 16:58:39 »
The Apple AEK2 has the best heavy dye-sub PBT caps anywhere, with truly retarded legends and impossible-to-understand quirks like the entire top row has the caps turned sideways.

SGI AT101s are supposed to have the best ANSI caps but I have never owned them.

Some early Dell AT101s have dye-sub caps (but not all, and not all old-logos, either).

Northgates and early Focus have decent doubleshots, including colored legends on RGB and Escape.
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 18 November 2014, 17:29:58 »
Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 18 November 2014, 16:58:39
The Apple AEK2 has the best heavy dye-sub PBT caps anywhere, with truly retarded legends and impossible-to-understand quirks like the entire top row has the caps turned sideways.
The legends are awesome. What’s retarded is Helvetica everydamnplace.

The top row being turned sideways is an attempt to make sure keys don’t bind when pressed off-center; if you notice, these caps are very tall, so if you press their tops from a bit of an angle (as is easy to do when pressing F keys) you’re putting a lot of torque on the switch slider. The decision is not at all “impossible to understand”.

Quote
SGI AT101s are supposed to have the best ANSI caps but I have never owned them.
The legends are kind of fun: yay oblique fonts. I’m not the biggest fan of the design of the symbols in the number row, but they’re okay.

Thick Alps dyesub caps are in general great though. Other keyboards with the same type of keycaps but different legends: the oldest Dell AT101s, IBM PC Convertible 5140, Xerox Docutech boards (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=60956.0), the oldest Zenith XT keyboards, Wang 724s, I believe some Japanese IBM Alps plate spring boards.

IBM P70/P75 (Alps plate spring) keyboards have the same great thick dyesub caps for the larger keys, but all the 1u keys (except the homing keys), as well as the ctrl and alt keys, are super thin PBT dyesubs instead. Using the larger keys from a P70/P75 keyboard plus the 1u keys from another board is a potential way to get a nice full ANSI set, if the other board has some kind of funky layout.

This type of C.Itoh board even has similar PBT dyesubs with spherical tops: http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/citoh.htm

Quote
Northgates and early Focus have decent doubleshots, including colored legends on RGB and Escape.
I believe these were made by Tai Hao. There are several other keyboards over the years with similar Tai Hao Alps caps. For example, this cute “Clicker” semi-mechanical board (click leaf + rubber dome or spring over membrane or something, like an Acer switch) http://www.ebay.com/itm/171393295715

I think they’re alright, but I slightly prefer Alps-made doubleshots (e.g. old Toshiba laptops, NEC luggables, NeXT keyboards, and various others).
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 November 2014, 18:26:14 by jacobolus »
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 06:58:02 »
I really like the dyesubbed PBT caps from the Wang keyboards on my Kingsaver. I also managed to grab very high quality dyesubbed PBT caps from an Acer 6311 board.

I think current manufacturers of Alps are Tai Hao, Signature Plastics, and whomever Matias is sourcing their caps from. However, since Alps isn't as popular, the cost and MOQs are very high. Of course, This was mentioned already but I thought I'd reiterate :).

I've also harvest caps from AEKs, AT101Ws, and other random Alps boards I've found. For example, I have new in package doubleshots from a random plunger over rubber dome board I found at an e-waste recycler. They've got really fun telecom style legends on them.
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Offline Hypersphere

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Re: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 07:54:36 »
It's looking good for putting together a set with correct profiles for the alphanumeric keys.

@jacobolus: I saw your post about stabilized Alps keys for the Infinity keyboard. I had not considered this -- looks like this could be a problem. However, I opted for the blank PBT keycaps -- I am hoping that the profile of these caps will match the profile of harvested keycaps. I don't mind having blank modifiers, but I would like the alphanumeric keys to have legends.

The two layouts for the Infinity are shown below. I am getting the "Hacker" layout with Matias tactile/click switches on the first round. If they have a second round, I may opt for the "Standard" layout.

82127-0

82129-1

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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Sources for Dye-Sub PBT or Doubleshot ABS Alps Keycaps?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 19 November 2014, 13:40:50 »
Quote from: Hypersphere on Wed, 19 November 2014, 07:54:36
I opted for the blank PBT keycaps -- I am hoping that the profile of these caps will match the profile of harvested keycaps. I don't mind having blank modifiers, but I would like the alphanumeric keys to have legends.
No, the blanks are DSA profile – uniform spherical tops.

I suggest getting your alphabet keys from a TRS-80 Model 100; the profile won’t quite match but it’s pretty close.
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