A new Swede looking for an 84

[Gahrlaag]

So
I'm both a new member AND a Swede, so hi to everyone first off.
I'm on the hunt for an 84 keyboard, or a 75% if that's more correct..
Been looking at the keycool 84 and noppoo choc which seems to be right about right in terms of what I'm looking for..BUT, they seem to be impossible to find with a nordic layout!
So my question is this..
I have no trouble with the acutal ANSI layout (since this can be changed within the OS anyway) but the fact that Nordic, and especially Swedish keycaps seeem to be impossible to find!
Basically, my question is, how hard would it be to get a keycool for example to fully working Swedish layout.

[henz]

fellow swede here, there are some GBS which provide international options to them. So if you are a 100% comitted on getting a 75% with swedishs lettering, Get a ANSI board, join a gb with a international option.

I have given upp on nordic keys, they are hard to sell and hard to get för your kb

[Gahrlaag]

fellow swede here, there are some GBS which provide international options to them. So if you are a 100% comitted on getting a 75% with swedishs lettering, Get a ANSI board, join a gb with a international option.

I have given upp on nordic keys, they are hard to sell and hard to get för your kb

Any chance you can point me in the right direction regarding GB's?
And secondly, what keyboard options are there in regards to a 75% more than noppoo (which seem to have some quality issues on the later models) and keycool's 84?

[katushkin]

Keycools are great, don't let anyone tell you that the Kailh switches are crap, because they aren't. At least not on a Keycool.

You can use any keyboard to type any layout, it's just the legends that will be different. Your problem with ISO layouts vs ANSI layouts is that you have one less key on an ANSI layout. The longer shift on the left hand side removes one key from the ISO layout.

What I'm trying to say, is that even if you change the keys on an ANSI to an ISO set, there will be one less key that may have something more important than \ and | like there is on UK ISO in SWE

[Gahrlaag]

Keycools are great, don't let anyone tell you that the Kailh switches are crap, because they aren't. At least not on a Keycool.

You can use any keyboard to type any layout, it's just the legends that will be different. Your problem with ISO layouts vs ANSI layouts is that you have one less key on an ANSI layout. The longer shift on the left hand side removes one key from the ISO layout.

What I'm trying to say, is that even if you change the keys on an ANSI to an ISO set, there will be one less key that may have something more important than \ and | like there is on UK ISO in SWE

Wouldn't that just be the Alt Gr being a "regular" alt?

[katushkin]

The Alt Gr isn't really that relevant. It's more the key above the return on the ANSI and the key to the right of the left shift on the ISO.






Basically, if you try to use an ANSI board to type Nordic, you won't be able to type * or '

[henz]

fellow swede here, there are some GBS which provide international options to them. So if you are a 100% comitted on getting a 75% with swedishs lettering, Get a ANSI board, join a gb with a international option.

I have given upp on nordic keys, they are hard to sell and hard to get för your kb

Any chance you can point me in the right direction regarding GB's?
And secondly, what keyboard options are there in regards to a 75% more than noppoo (which seem to have some quality issues on the later models) and keycool's 84?

The last groupbuy i saw a international kit on was on granite, i guess you just missed it. Maybe you can check if someone has 1 + internationalkit for sale.

Keycools are great, don't let anyone tell you that the Kailh switches are crap, because they aren't. At least not on a Keycool.

You can use any keyboard to type any layout, it's just the legends that will be different. Your problem with ISO layouts vs ANSI layouts is that you have one less key on an ANSI layout. The longer shift on the left hand side removes one key from the ISO layout.

What I'm trying to say, is that even if you change the keys on an ANSI to an ISO set, there will be one less key that may have something more important than \ and | like there is on UK ISO in SWE

As Katu describes here i get around by using us english and swedish layout. So if im writing text ill have swedish layout, when coding i swap it to english(hence making the extra key irrelevant.) Simply changing layout on scroll lock key. easily done in Linux but im guessing its not so hard in windows either.

[Gahrlaag]

The Alt Gr isn't really that relevant. It's more the key above the return on the ANSI and the key to the right of the left shift on the ISO.

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Basically, if you try to use an ANSI board to type Nordic, you won't be able to type * or '

Dang..that's quite big actually...

[Findecanor]

The Alt Gr isn't really that relevant.

On keyboards with two Alt keys, the right key is always Alt Gr.
Alt Gr is very relevant in Swedish/Finnish (SF) layout, if you want to type characters such as @ $ [ ] [ } \ ~ that ANSI users take for granted.

Basically, if you try to use an ANSI board to type Nordic, you won't be able to type * or '

The Backslash key produces that key, usually. They are different keys in the USB HID code table, but they are interpreted as the same key by all OS:es that I know of.

The key next to Shift is the one that is really missed. Used for < > and | ¦ with Alt Gr in SF layout.
You might have been confused by the use of that key for | \ in British UK layout.

[munch]

I use a somewhat custom swedish layout for my ANSI keyboard. I have Alt Gr (or Ctrl Alt, but not all applications I use support this) + Å Ö Ä for the functions of the button next to left shift. meaning I can do |<>
the rest is completely 'default' though. it works really well, and doesn't take much to get used to.

in Windows, you can use "KLM64" to change your keyboard's layout.

[Gahrlaag]

I just don't get how it can be so damn hard getting a 75% with an ISO layout..I mean, it can't be so that there's zero request for such a setup ?

[munch]

well, GON offers ISO for his 75% - but it will probably cost you around 3-4000 SEK total
Kaliet will also make one I think, just not sure how much they are, probably around the same.

http://22kbd.com/141

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/140-gon-ns-nerd-mx-mini-w-tuningassembly.html

+ the cost of keycaps, depending on what set you choose.
but you'll have a custom one that will last you pretty much forever, might be the only KB purchase you'll ever want to make

[Gahrlaag]

well, GON offers ISO for his 75% - but it will probably cost you around 3-4000 SEK total
Kaliet will also make one I think, just not sure how much they are, probably around the same.

http://22kbd.com/141

http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/custom-kbds-w-assembly/140-gon-ns-nerd-mx-mini-w-tuningassembly.html

+ the cost of keycaps, depending on what set you choose.
but you'll have a custom one that will last you pretty much forever, might be the only KB purchase you'll ever want to make

Well that spoils the fun right there then doesn't it?

[Gahrlaag]

Hmm..how about a KBT Pure? That seems to ship with ISO layout?

[munch]

it's 60% though. but I really like it.

[henz]

you can get a skinny MX mini from GON, it would end up in a better price range than getting the normal mini.A DIY kit would be  Around ~200+maybe customs fees$ which is better then 4000 sek I can solder it for you for a small fee if you live nearby GBG. Gon can solder aswell, but i think its quite expensive.

[Oobly]

Hmm..how about a KBT Pure? That seems to ship with ISO layout?

Do you mean KBT Pure or KBT Pure Pro?

I have a KBT Pure (US ANSI layout) and find it very easy to use, although it takes time to get used to using the Fn layer for arrow keys and Home / End. I switch between US ANSI and Finnish/Swedish layout with Alt-Shift in Windows (default behaviour if you have more than one keyboard language installed). You can type fine in Finnnish (or Swedish) using the layout, but have to switch to US layout to get \|<> characters (and the '* is moved to under backspace). I don't really use those when typing normally in Finnish (although the shifted ' is irritating sometimes), only when writing code, so I do the same as henz.

The Pure Pro has dedicated arrow keys and separate 1x Del and Backspace on the top right, but it uses a 4.5x spacebar and is very hard to find replacement keycaps for, especially if you get the ISO version.

If you really like ISO layout and don't want to change the keycaps, the Pure or Pure Pro are both good boards. The dedicated arrow keys and separate 1x size Del and Backspace keys of the Pure Pro make it more like a 75% board. the Pure Pro is also programmable like the Poker II, which is a nice feature. Actually, the more I look at the layout of the Pure Pro, the more I like it. I think it would be quite easy to get used to the layout and doing coding / text editing would be quite intuitive (Home and End on the Fn layer of left and right arrows, PgUp and PgDn on up and down).

The Race II is another 75% you may want to take a look at, but AFAIK it also does not have an ISO version.

If you do want replace the keycaps, there aren't really any 75% boards that make it easy, even in ANSI layout, but in 60% size there are a few. The Poker II in particular since it uses completely standard ANSI and ISO layouts.

This will be your best bet if you really want ISO Nordic keycaps - buy a Poker 2 ISO and some Ducky Nordic caps.

[Gahrlaag]

Really good suggestions and ideas all around, what a great forum!
It was the pure pro I was thinking about, forgot to clarify that, sorry.
I would actually prefer to be able to change caps, Not really a fan of ABS as such (Model M, you'll always be in my heart)..

The reasoning for me actually looking for a 75% and not a 60% is first and foremost the dedicated arrow keys..I do a lot of photography and editing pictures can sometimes be a PITA if you just use the mouse, hence, the arrow keys enable me to do pixel perfect placement on stuff..
Not having arrow keys just won't do it for me.

[Findecanor]

Tinnie (tinlong) was doing a group-order for MX Mini-U PCBs over on Deskthority. €35 Eur for the PCB with controller. (You would have to build the rest yourself though.)  I don't know what came out of it... if it finished, still waiting or what.

Edit: 35 Eur, not 35 USD. sorry.

[Gahrlaag]

it's 60% though. but I really like it.

The pure, or pure pro? cause I'm pretty certain the pro has dedicated arrows? or am I thinking of another board?
edit: nevermind, I'm an idiot...it's perfectly explained 2 posts above this one

[Oobly]

If you want to change keycaps AND need dedicated arrow keys, it's going to be difficult finding a good match. The closest may be an original Poker (also known as the Poker X) or Pure (not the Pure Pro), since you can toggle the right hand modifiers into an arrow key cluster (Fn+space turns them into arrow keys, Fn+space again turns them back into modifiers). But these are no longer in production and it will be very hard to find an ISO one still available.

The Keycool 84 at least has a standard sized spacebar, so it is possible to get replacement keycaps for it, but the keycaps on the right hand side (PgUp, PgDn, End) won't have the correct angles or you'll have to use ones with incorrect legends on them. Also, it's hard to find 1x size Alt and Ctrl keys and it doesn't come in ISO layout.

Have you considered getting an ISO TenKeyLess (TKL) keyboard like the Ducky Shine 3 TKL? Standard keycaps, comes in ISO Nordic variant, dedicated arrow keys, but it's a bit bigger than the 75% boards (87 keys instead of 84 and space around the key groups like a full size, just no number pad).

[Lord of Narwhals]

I've given up on the Swedish ISO layout since I find ANSI more practical overall. I like the long Shift keys and when programming I don't don't have to use AltGr to get {[]}|.
If I need to use Swedish letters (ÅÄÖ) I just use Alt+Shift to switch between different languages in the OS.

My previous keyboard (Steelseries 6GV2) had a Nordic layout printed on the keycaps and since the Swedish, Norwegian, and Danish layouts are slightly different it had these two silly looking keycaps.

[azhdar]

Not exactly a 75% but maybe you should take a look there :
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=64168.0

I know the ISO pain , the ISO key is < > in french  , quite hard to code without it é_è

[Gahrlaag]

If you want to change keycaps AND need dedicated arrow keys, it's going to be difficult finding a good match. The closest may be an original Poker (also known as the Poker X) or Pure (not the Pure Pro), since you can toggle the right hand modifiers into an arrow key cluster (Fn+space turns them into arrow keys, Fn+space again turns them back into modifiers). But these are no longer in production and it will be very hard to find an ISO one still available.

The Keycool 84 at least has a standard sized spacebar, so it is possible to get replacement keycaps for it, but the keycaps on the right hand side (PgUp, PgDn, End) won't have the correct angles or you'll have to use ones with incorrect legends on them. Also, it's hard to find 1x size Alt and Ctrl keys and it doesn't come in ISO layout.

Have you considered getting an ISO TenKeyLess (TKL) keyboard like the Ducky Shine 3 TKL? Standard keycaps, comes in ISO Nordic variant, dedicated arrow keys, but it's a bit bigger than the 75% boards (87 keys instead of 84 and space around the key groups like a full size, just no number pad).

I would be ok with the angle part..as long as I'm not stuck with obscure key combinations to write a ( for example...
I actually have a Shine 3 TKL at the moment...but..well..I don't have to explain it to you guys, I want a smaller one (never thought I'd say that in my life)

[Gahrlaag]

I'm actually thinking of buying an ansi keyboard anyway, and just switch the caps and add the extra nordic ones like åäö..
Basically, the dedicated key for <>| would be gone, and I'd have to move the '* key to above enter...right? that's all?