HHKB, Poker, or custom

[Vulshinn]

Hey everyone I'm new here!  I'm in the market for a new keyboard but not exactly sure which route I should take and figured asking the community would be a great place to start.  I currently have a wasd code with greens and a g710+ , a friend gave me, with browns. I like both switches but the greens get a little heavey after long typing sessions and browns feel scratchy at times.

I was originally looking at getting a poker 2 with reds and getting a TeX aluminum case but with that price I could get a hhkb pro 2.  I have never tried topre but I have heard great things and love the layout.  Then I was thinking about making a custom board with  nerd60 PCB.  I would like something quieter then greens and browns, how loud is topre compared to those two? Was also looking at the type s but the price is pretty steep. 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Hoaryhag]

If you want quiet there is always the Matias quiet click and quiet linear switches.  You can get them on the KBParadise v60 or Matias mini I think.  I want quiet myself because my baby is sleeping beside me but just opted for cherry mx reds and poker 2 for easier to find keysets etc.

[ghostjuggernaut]

Hey everyone I'm new here!  I'm in the market for a new keyboard but not exactly sure which route I should take and figured asking the community would be a great place to start.  I currently have a wasd code with greens and a g710+ , a friend gave me, with browns. I like both switches but the greens get a little heavey after long typing sessions and browns feel scratchy at times.

I was originally looking at getting a poker 2 with reds and getting a TeX aluminum case but with that price I could get a hhkb pro 2.  I have never tried topre but I have heard great things and love the layout.  Then I was thinking about making a custom board with  nerd60 PCB.  I would like something quieter then greens and browns, how loud is topre compared to those two? Was also looking at the type s but the price is pretty steep. 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

You can pick up a Type-S for ~$250 from Rakuten using Tenso, when they have their free shipping deals.

[Vulshinn]

If you want quiet there is always the Matias quiet click and quiet linear switches.  You can get them on the KBParadise v60 or Matias mini I think.  I want quiet myself because my baby is sleeping beside me but just opted for cherry mx reds and poker 2 for easier to find keysets etc.

I never thought about trying Matias, they do seem pretty quiet from the samples on their website.  My only concern with Matias or HHKB for that matter, is the availability of key caps.  I think you're right about the poker 2,  just need to find one now haha.

You can pick up a Type-S for ~$250 from Rakuten using Tenso, when they have their free shipping deals.

I see you have a HHKB in your signature, what are your thoughts about it?  I will definitely check out Rakuten though, if I can get a Type-S for that price.

[ghostjuggernaut]

I've had mine for about 2 weeks, and don't regret the purchase at all. Best board I've ever used.

[Vulshinn]

How loud is it compared to greens or browns?  Also did you buy yours from the site you linked me?

[saturnotaku]

How loud is it compared to greens or browns?  Also did you buy yours from the site you linked me?

The Type-S is quieter than all of those, but if you want to hear for yourself, go on Youtube. There are plenty of typing videos out there just about about every mechanical switch you can think of.

[ghostjuggernaut]

No, I bought mine from Elite Keyboards. Had I wanted a type s I would have gone through them though. In terms of sound, Here is a video by VesperSaint that is pretty accurate.

[mashby]

Give it time and you'll probably have all three of the boards you're considering. We don't call GeekHack, WalletHack for nothing.  )

That being said, given that you're already familiar with Cherry MX switches, I'd suggest getting the HHKB. It's not as customizable as a Cherry based keyboard, but it's a fantastic board. The Topre switch is unique unto itself and has a completely different feel. If you find you don't like the layout of the HHKB, they are pretty easy to sell, but I give it time because once you get use to it, it's hard to beat too.

I tend to switch between a Poker X with MX-Black switches and an HHKB Pr 2 Type-S throughout the day and love both of them and grateful that I don't have to choose just one board. 

Let us know what you decide.

[Vulshinn]

Pretty sure I'm going with the HHKB, not sure on the type-s or not.  Really liking the all black with blank keycaps 

Yeah, I see a lot more boards in my future.  I have a thing going with my wife where every anniversary I get a new board!!!

[deci]

I have a ton of different keyboards of all different kinds at this point... custom koreans, alps, topres.
They are all really good for different reasons. Ergo clears are amazing, get some from GON and you'll love them. Alps are by far the best for clicky switches imo, and topres... well let's just say topres aren't for everyone, but they are practically magical if you're into very smooth keys that pop at the top. That and the topre thock is pretty addictive.

If I could only have one... I would go with HHKB or Leopold FC660C.
The Leo feels slightly better to me than the HHKB and I much prefer its layout to the weird HHKB one. Some people like the HHKB layout but personally I hate it and the Leo has arrow keys which I love.
However, my HHKB was fully programmable thanks to the Teensy mod (and now has Bluetooth thanks to Hasu) so it evens it up a bit.

If you don't care about having a programmable custom keyboard. I would highly suggest the Leo FC660c. It's the best feeling Topre board imo.

[bigDave]

Wait and get a poker 3, it just got announced.

[nubbinator]

Wait and get a poker 3, it just got announced.

I'd still get a Type-S over the Pok3r or whatever they're calling it.

[Sygaldry]

My HHKB Type-S is my baby. I actually have to force myself to use my other keyboards to justify owning anything else.

I got it brand new for 248 shipped so it actually cost me less than most people buy their non-Type-S HHKBs (because most people buy through EliteKeyboards - expensive!)

The only quieter keyboard I have (and it also happens to be the quietest keyboard I've ever tried - even quieter than scissor switches and cheapo rubber domes) is my RealForce (see signature).

[Bucake]

i'm probably getting both the poker 2 (or poker 3) and the hhkbp2 type-s (white with blank caps is totally sexy!).

i've actually owned the poker 2 before, but i ditched it because i ended up liking my pure pro more. (i bought them both at the same time.)
so now my daily is the pure pro, and although i love it, i'm not sure if i'd recommend it (because it has a quite peculiar layout).
but i've ended up missing that poker 2, so i think i'm just going to get it back.
pff

anyway; there's alot of love for both the poker series and the hhkb series,
so i'd say either one would be a good purchase..

good luck!

edit: @Sygaldry
oh my god, you've snatched one of the digilog cases!
i was too late..

[bigDave]

Wait and get a poker 3, it just got announced.

I'd still get a Type-S over the Pok3r or whatever they're calling it.

There is and always be a considerable price difference is it op's call if he wants to pay more for the topre experience.

[Vulshinn]

Wait and get a poker 3, it just got announced.

I would like to get something by the end of March so the poker 3 is out.  That's not to say I won't pick up one in the future.

I know the HHKB has a weird layout but I think I would enjoy it once I got use to it.

    why don't they make the type-s in black

[Sygaldry]

edit: @Sygaldry
oh my god, you've snatched one of the digilog cases!
i was too late..

I got mine secondhand from a fellow member in pretty much perfect condition =]
Someone else got the last one on eBay  )

Wait and get a poker 3, it just got announced.

I would like to get something by the end of March so the poker 3 is out.  That's not to say I won't pick up one in the future.

I know the HHKB has a weird layout but I think I would enjoy it once I got use to it.

    why don't they make the type-s in black

Because everyone that ever bought a black HHKB lusted after the white one in the end =]

[Funktion]

My HHKB Type-S is my baby. I actually have to force myself to use my other keyboards to justify owning anything else.

I got it brand new for 248 shipped so it actually cost me less than most people buy their non-Type-S HHKBs (because most people buy through EliteKeyboards - expensive!)

The only quieter keyboard I have (and it also happens to be the quietest keyboard I've ever tried - even quieter than scissor switches and cheapo rubber domes) is my RealForce (see signature).

I've been searching for a type s where did you get yours For that cheap?

[Vulshinn]

I don't mind paying a premium for a HHKB as long as I'm satisfied with the typing experience.  It is, on the other hand, hard to pay an extra $70+ for a type-s and I know I'll want to buy a set of blank black keys for it in the future.

Because everyone that ever bought a black HHKB lusted after the white one in the end =]

Haha maybe so, I could see that happening.

[Sygaldry]

I don't mind paying a premium for a HHKB as long as I'm satisfied with the typing experience.  It is, on the other hand, hard to pay an extra $70+ for a type-s and I know I'll want to buy a set of blank black keys for it in the future.

Because everyone that ever bought a black HHKB lusted after the white one in the end =]

Haha maybe so, I could see that happening.

It's not a 70 dollar premium. Just don't buy it from EliteKeyboards. 

EliteKeyboard's price for the non-Type-S is ~255 shipped (at least it is to where I live). For the same price, you can get a Type-S imported from Japan direct from PFU (the company that makes the HHKB) when Tenso has a Rakuten shipping promotion going on.

Without the Rakuten promotion, it ends up costing ~270 dollars, which is only ~20 dollars more than the non-Type-S from EliteKeyboards. 20 dollar premium - well worth it.

[Hypersphere]

The closest I've come to a custom is that I've ordered an Infinity 60 kit with Matias Click switches. Looking forward to putting it together.

I have a Poker II, but it spends most of its time boxed up on the shelf. The main problems with the Poker Ii for me are the Cherry switches and Cherry stabilizers. The good news is the plethora of keycaps that are available.

Two new favorites of mine are the KBP V60 Matias Click and Matias Quiet. The only drawback to these is the difficulty in finding good keycaps, but I've done okay by sourcing them from vintage Alps-mount keyboards.

The HHKB is really something special. There is something to like about all the variants, but I have a particular fondness for my modded black with Type-S silencing rings and 55g domes from an RF. The stock keycaps are great, but I've replaced them with blank black mods and blue alpha keys (from an RF set on eBay) plus a red Esc and Fn key. I like just about everything about the HHKB, especially the layout.





 

[kaminbobby]

The closest I've come to a custom is that I've ordered an Infinity 60 kit with Matias Click switches. Looking forward to putting it together.

I have a Poker II, but it spends most of its time boxed up on the shelf. The main problems with the Poker Ii for me are the Cherry switches and Cherry stabilizers. The good news is the plethora of keycaps that are available.

Two new favorites of mine are the KBP V60 Matias Click and Matias Quiet. The only drawback to these is the difficulty in finding good keycaps, but I've done okay by sourcing them from vintage Alps-mount keyboards.

The HHKB is really something special. There is something to like about all the variants, but I have a particular fondness for my modded black with Type-S silencing rings and 55g domes from an RF. The stock keycaps are great, but I've replaced them with blank black mods and blue alpha keys (from an RF set on eBay) plus a red Esc and Fn key. I like just about everything about the HHKB, especially the layout.

That is one expensive keyboard...

[Vulshinn]

@Sygaldry, thanks for the info. Ghostjuggernaut was telling me about it earlier but I haven't looked into yet.  If I can get a type-s for that price, then white HHKB it is! 

[Bromono]

You can always silent it your-self. Either dental bands or ironed soft Landing pads. I love the sound of my dental moded one. Type-s seem to have a "whistle" effect on some of their keys. Though, doing this mod, it will kind of effect the feel of the key, the switches become more linear. so if you want tactile, soft landing pads are your best bet.

[ghostjuggernaut]

@Sygaldry, thanks for the info. Ghostjuggernaut was telling me about it earlier but I haven't looked into yet.  If I can get a type-s for that price, then white HHKB it is! 

I was referencing a previous post by Sygaldry. I was a few days late in the free shipping, otherwise I would've went the Rakuten route, following his advice.

[deci]

I'm telling you... Leo FC660C doesn't get enough love on these forums.
Stock FC660C > stock HHKB > stock 50g RF.

I'm not alone in feeling that way either, ask some other people that own or have used all of them...

[Sygaldry]

I'm telling you... Leo FC660C doesn't get enough love on these forums.
Stock FC660C > stock HHKB > stock 50g RF.

I'm not alone in feeling that way either, ask some other people that own or have used all of them...

I respectfully disagree, sir.

In terms of feel:
HHKB Type-S = RF55g Type-S (only available through mods) > HHKB > 55g RF > Type Heaven >= RF 45g = FC660C > Variable Topre.

Have not tried 30g uniform yet but I dislike the 30g domes on the variable and probably would not like a whole board with them.

In terms of layout:
HHKB > TKL > Full-sized > FC660Anything

[Vulshinn]

Well waiting on Tenso to verify my address, I was originally going buy from pfudirect on rakuten but I noticed they don't take paypal  would rather not use my credit card info.

[saturnotaku]

Type-s seem to have a "whistle" effect on some of their keys.

I think this was an issue on specific batches of Type-S boards. Mine has a build date of October 2014 and doesn't whistle, or at least not nearly as much as those I've read about and watched on Youtube.

[Sygaldry]

Type-s seem to have a "whistle" effect on some of their keys.

I think this was an issue on specific batches of Type-S boards. Mine has a build date of October 2014 and doesn't whistle, or at least not nearly as much as those I've read about and watched on Youtube.

The whistle goes away with use. The F key whistled on my Type-S. It became perfectly silent after a couple weeks of typing on it.

[deci]

I'm telling you... Leo FC660C doesn't get enough love on these forums.
Stock FC660C > stock HHKB > stock 50g RF.

I'm not alone in feeling that way either, ask some other people that own or have used all of them...

I respectfully disagree, sir.

In terms of feel:
HHKB Type-S = RF55g Type-S (only available through mods) > HHKB > 55g RF > Type Heaven >= RF 45g = FC660C > Variable Topre.

Have not tried 30g uniform yet but I dislike the 30g domes on the variable and probably would not like a whole board with them.

In terms of layout:
HHKB > TKL > Full-sized > FC660Anything

To each their own sir.
The fact that you put a Type Heaven over a FC660C is curious though, first time I've seen that one.
But I have to ask if you're talking about the original FC660C or the later ones that came with Dye Sub pbt caps.
Because I have used both and they feel quite a bit different.

I would even go so far as to say that the newer FC660C feels like 50g Topre.

When I was in Tokyo, I would commonly take people to the store and have them try it out themselves.
Almost everyone preferred FC660C or 55g domes.
Btw... a lot of people seem to liked HiPro. (SA on Topre feels amazing)

Layout is purely preference so not much point debating that, but you seem to really have a bias against FC660's if you listed HHKB and then TKL as your preferred and then still put full size over the Leo.
Curious what specific preference led you to that.

[Sygaldry]

I'm telling you... Leo FC660C doesn't get enough love on these forums.
Stock FC660C > stock HHKB > stock 50g RF.

I'm not alone in feeling that way either, ask some other people that own or have used all of them...

I respectfully disagree, sir.

In terms of feel:
HHKB Type-S = RF55g Type-S (only available through mods) > HHKB > 55g RF > Type Heaven >= RF 45g = FC660C > Variable Topre.

Have not tried 30g uniform yet but I dislike the 30g domes on the variable and probably would not like a whole board with them.

In terms of layout:
HHKB > TKL > Full-sized > FC660Anything

To each their own sir.

Yes... to each their own... which is why I said I "respectfully" disagree instead of saying "you're wrong."

But syntax aside:

I prefer the HHKB, not because of the form factor, but because of the key layout.

I fell in love with the HHKB layout almost immediately. Everything is placed so that you can reach it without moving off of the home row. After getting used to the FN layer on the HHKB, I realized how natural it felt and it actually improved my work flow.

Regarding the 660 layout, I just didn't feel anything in particular for it to the point that I actually actually preferred the TKL and Full Sized boards. If the Right Shift was cut down to 1.75u (so that the arrow cluster could be move slightly to the left) and two extra keys were squeezed in, then I might be interested (but I guess this would make a 65% layout/form factor that is growing in popularity here).

Also, the Type Heaven is a phenomenal keyboard. Key caps aside, it actually felt better to me than the 45g RF even though they are both plate mounted Topre boards. Not sure why this is but it just is. The key caps are bad but the typing action of the board almost felt better than the other plate mounted 45g Topres.

Regarding 55g Topres. I prefered 45g over 55g when I first got my RF87U and almost regretted my decision to buy a 55g. I ended up forcing myself to use it so I could make a fair assessment of it. After a week of using it exclusively to get used to it, it felt just as good if not better than all the other Topre boards I tried (I'm typing on my 55g board right now).

This is a common occurrence with the 55g weight - trying it once, most people don't like it but after getting used to it, it becomes their weight of choice. Simply typing on it in the store is not enough time to realize the wonders of the 55g dome.

[deci]

I'm telling you... Leo FC660C doesn't get enough love on these forums.
Stock FC660C > stock HHKB > stock 50g RF.

I'm not alone in feeling that way either, ask some other people that own or have used all of them...

I respectfully disagree, sir.

In terms of feel:
HHKB Type-S = RF55g Type-S (only available through mods) > HHKB > 55g RF > Type Heaven >= RF 45g = FC660C > Variable Topre.

Have not tried 30g uniform yet but I dislike the 30g domes on the variable and probably would not like a whole board with them.

In terms of layout:
HHKB > TKL > Full-sized > FC660Anything

To each their own sir.

Yes... to each their own... which is why I said I "respectfully" disagree instead of saying "you're wrong."

But syntax aside:

I prefer the HHKB, not because of the form factor, but because of the key layout.

I fell in love with the HHKB layout almost immediately. Everything is placed so that you can reach it without moving off of the home row. After getting used to the FN layer on the HHKB, I realized how natural it felt and it actually improved my work flow.

Regarding the 660 layout, I just didn't feel anything in particular for it to the point that I actually actually preferred the TKL and Full Sized boards. If the Right Shift was cut down to 1.75u (so that the arrow cluster could be move slightly to the left) and two extra keys were squeezed in, then I might be interested (but I guess this would make a 65% layout/form factor that is growing in popularity here).

Also, the Type Heaven is a phenomenal keyboard. Key caps aside, it actually felt better to me than the 45g RF even though they are both plate mounted Topre boards. Not sure why this is but it just is. The key caps are bad but the typing action of the board almost felt better than the other plate mounted 45g Topres.

Regarding 55g Topres. I prefered 45g over 55g when I first got my RF87U and almost regretted my decision to buy a 55g. I ended up forcing myself to use it so I could make a fair assessment of it. After a week of using it exclusively to get used to it, it felt just as good if not better than all the other Topre boards I tried (I'm typing on my 55g board right now).

This is a common occurrence with the 55g weight - trying it once, most people don't like it but after getting used to it, it becomes their weight of choice. Simply typing on it in the store is not enough time to realize the wonders of the 55g dome.

Ahh please don't misunderstand. I was just agreeing with you that there is no wrong point of view in this case, it's just preference.

As for the HHKB layout... I see.
Personally I love the backspace / delete position as well but just can't get used to not having a bottom left ctrl position or the freedom to use the capslock key for fn or backspace or something else.
The dedicated arrow and del keys on the Leo is what seals it for me, however on my HHKB I'm using a SpaceFN layout so I definitely know what you mean about how nice it is not to have to move your hands around.

I agree with your feelings on 55g as well. I definitely thought it was a bit too heavy at first, but it grew on me the more I used it as well.
It's still a toss up to me whether I prefer the 55g plate mount to the 45g hhkb plastic case mount though. Something about the hhkb just feels more playful?
I guess at some point I will have to just swap in some 55g domes into a hhkb but that would require buying a brand new as I really don't want to mess with my current one that already feels amazing.

I have to say however... the 45g on the new Leo really surprised me. It's like a really good midway point between 55g and 45g. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it but it really feels like 50g.
I don't have one to compare it with but I swear when I tried the old non dyesub FC660C that the domes felt much much lighter.

Hmmm interesting about the Typeheaven. I'll have to find one and try it out again with some thick PBT. Perhaps it was the keycaps that made me not like it...

I wonder what is is that makes all the 45g plate mounted Topres feel so different. I own a Novatouch as well and it feels lighter than an RF which feels lighter than the Leo.
Possibly a different batch of domes?

[Sygaldry]

I wonder what is is that makes all the 45g plate mounted Topres feel so different. I own a Novatouch as well and it feels lighter than an RF which feels lighter than the Leo.
Possibly a different batch of domes?

I think the Type Heaven switches use a different conical spring. Not sure if the domes are any different but that could be another factor =p

Either way, I loved typing on my Type Heaven when I still had it. 

But yeah, the bouncy, liveliness of the HHKB is hard to beat =]

[ctm]

Hey everyone I'm new here!  I'm in the market for a new keyboard but not exactly sure which route I should take and figured asking the community would be a great place to start.  I currently have a wasd code with greens and a g710+ , a friend gave me, with browns. I like both switches but the greens get a little heavey after long typing sessions and browns feel scratchy at times.

I was originally looking at getting a poker 2 with reds and getting a TeX aluminum case but with that price I could get a hhkb pro 2.  I have never tried topre but I have heard great things and love the layout.  Then I was thinking about making a custom board with  nerd60 PCB.  I would like something quieter then greens and browns, how loud is topre compared to those two? Was also looking at the type s but the price is pretty steep. 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

You can pick up a Type-S for ~$250 from Rakuten using Tenso, when they have their free shipping deals.

250 for a Type-S? That sounds very good since EK is selling Type-S for around 320 and normal None-type-s for 230. Could you give a link to that 250 Type-S? Thanks!

[Vulshinn]

Here you go, from pfu direct!
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/pfudirect/item/10000026/

[czarek]

For me it's either HHKB (if you like Topre 45G, I personally like 55G more) or custom. I must have 2 CMD keys and 2 ALT on each side of Space Bar. None of standard 60% keyboards have that. They always put PM or FN where second alt or CMD key should be and it pretty much discards them for me.

[ctm]

Here you go, from pfu direct!
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/pfudirect/item/10000026/

I was kind of hoping to see s non-type-s which may even has lower price, but it seems PFU only sales non-type-s bundled with Bluetooth adapter. It seems HHKB in Japan is much cheaper than in US. I also see a used HHKB on Yahoo Japan auction that sales for around 120 USD. This price is unbelievable.

[Bucake]

getting anything from US or Japan is terrible for me (netherlands) because of shipping costs + import charges.
i'm doomed to high cost, regardless

[davkol]

The discussion has apparently moved elsewhere, but here's one thing worth pointing out: the HHKB layout. I'm currently reviewing it, and my impression is that the layout is somewhere between wicked and flat-out wrong.

[Vulshinn]

Here you go, from pfu direct!
http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/pfudirect/item/10000026/

I was kind of hoping to see s non-type-s which may even has lower price, but it seems PFU only sales non-type-s bundled with Bluetooth adapter. It seems HHKB in Japan is much cheaper than in US. I also see a used HHKB on Yahoo Japan auction that sales for around 120 USD. This price is unbelievable.

You can get a non-type-s from Amazon Japan for around $210 or so, also keycap sets for the hhkb are around $35.  I have been looking into this a lot over the week,  probably will be putting in my order tomorrow.

The discussion has apparently moved elsewhere, but here's one thing worth pointing out: the HHKB layout. I'm currently reviewing it, and my impression is that the layout is somewhere between wicked and flat-out wrong.

From what I have read, most really enjoy the layout once they get use to it.  The layout is what is really attracting me to the hhkb, well that and how everyone loves it! 

[davkol]

The discussion has apparently moved elsewhere, but here's one thing worth pointing out: the HHKB layout. I'm currently reviewing it, and my impression is that the layout is somewhere between wicked and flat-out wrong.

From what I have read, most really enjoy the layout once they get use to it.  The layout is what is really attracting me to the hhkb, well that and how everyone loves it! 

Seriously, try that layout on a regular keyboard first. Infinity, Poker 2, QFR w/ Frosty Flake, or any keyboard with some OS-side remapping software.

I find it necessary to awkwardly rotate my hands to press various key combinations comfortably, esp. one-handed.