Discrete keyswitch shootout

[Sigmoid]

Hey,

Cherry MX switches get a lot of bad rep these days, like "declining quality", "wobbly", "flimsy", and the like. My perception is that some people have consigned Cherry to a status of "the mechanical switch for the peasant masses", while the proud master race uses mostly Topre. Of course being the most popular switch it's normal for there to be some negative voices about them.

So my purpose with this thread is to find out what people consider the best discrete mechanical keyswitch, with an emphasis on those still in production.

Discrete means: you can go to a distributor and buy "one" of them, which you can then pop into a plate and solder to a PCB. While you can buy "one Cherry green", you CANNOT buy "one Topre switch" or "one IBM / Unicomp buckling spring switch".

Is Cherry the best in the discrete category? Is there anyone making better switches to this day?

[chyros]

Tactile and especially clicky Cherries are atrocious IMO, I much prefer tactile and clicky Alps over tactile and clicky Cherries. Matias switches and several Alps clones aren't 100% as good as Alps SKCMs, but still considerably superior to Cherries IMO, and are still being made today.

Hi-Teks are ancient history, but I prefer linear Space Invaders over linear Cherries. Linear switches is obviously what Cherry is good at, though, the whole design of Cherry switches is linear as **** to begin with.

I would say it is sad that Cherry has absorbed virtually the entire mechanical keyboard market nowadays. Most people don't even realise there are other switches.

[Snowdog993]

Tactile and especially clicky Cherries are atrocious IMO, I much prefer tactile and clicky Alps over tactile and clicky Cherries. Matias switches and several Alps clones aren't 100% as good as Alps SKCMs, but still considerably superior to Cherries IMO, and are still being made today.

Hi-Teks are ancient history, but I prefer linear Space Invaders over linear Cherries. Linear switches is obviously what Cherry is good at, though, the whole design of Cherry switches is linear as **** to begin with.

I would say it is sad that Cherry has absorbed virtually the entire mechanical keyboard market nowadays. Most people don't even realise there are other switches.

This I agree with.  There are people out there that want the latest and greatest and will never buy a vintage keyboard.  They have never used them, and in their experience no other thing matters.  Since the masses have them, they DO have opportuity to get custom keycaps for them.  It's wonderful they can. 
Since I am in a niche inside a niche, I really have to find salvaged parts if I need them.  I can't go to a store and try a buckling spring keyboard.
Availability is there, and you can get a buckling spring keyboard that is reconditioned better than ever.  You can spend $150 on a cherry or cherry clone keyboard, but be damned if you spend that much on a "used" keyboard that is 20 years old. 
Waking up the community with knowing the facts, not getting ripped off, and showing what can be done to make these wonderful keyboards as good as new, makes me all the more happier.  That old IBM keyboard deserves the reputation it had, and furthermore, what it has now.
Perhaps taking a second look around is something you should do.  Find a reconditioned IBM keyboard if you can.  Use it and decide for yourself.  For a keyboard that is 20 plus years old, there may be a reason they have lasted so long.

[HAL9000]

I have been using IBM Model M keyboards for the last 20 years. But recently I found other keyboards that I really like.
The best click is on the Model F keyboard (which of course is not produced anymore), followed by the Model M and the followed by MX Green.
Without a click the Topre Realforce 55g is the one to rule them all. The Royal Kludge 930-87 55g is not so pricey alternative but does not quite reach the Topre.

[Sigmoid]

Availability is there, and you can get a buckling spring keyboard that is reconditioned better than ever.  You can spend $150 on a cherry or cherry clone keyboard, but be damned if you spend that much on a "used" keyboard that is 20 years old. 
Waking up the community with knowing the facts, not getting ripped off, and showing what can be done to make these wonderful keyboards as good as new, makes me all the more happier.  That old IBM keyboard deserves the reputation it had, and furthermore, what it has now.
Perhaps taking a second look around is something you should do.  Find a reconditioned IBM keyboard if you can.  Use it and decide for yourself.  For. a keyboard that is 20 plus years old, there may be a reason they have lasted so long.

Yea, Model Fs are in a category of their own. I have recently reconditioned an XT with a brand new silicone foam mat, and it's a truly wonderful keyboard. Also it's almost as old as I am (and older than most of my friends and coworkers), but is quite literally ageless in feel and reliability.
So much so that I have recently started thinkng about getting some people together and kicking off a fabless company to make new Model F knockoffs. This technology deserves to live.

Still, discrete switches allow makers to experiment with specialized, space-saving or ergonomic layouts, and create something awesome from scratch without having to go though the full cycle of product development.

I remember my first PC was an Acer, which had Alps switches.  Those felt really nice. So Matias is better than Cherry?

[chyros]

So Matias is better than Cherry?

It's different. Remember, there's no one switch to please everyone! Matiases are stiffer, so light typists probably wouldn't enjoy them as much. IMO they feel and sound much nicer though.

[CPTBadAss]

If there was a truly best switch, we would all be typing on it and there wouldn't be much of a forum. "Best" should really read "personal preference".

[njbair]

If there was a truly best switch, we would all be typing on it and there wouldn't be much of a forum. "Best" should really read "personal preference".

You mean the rest of you aren't typing on Kalih browns with thin ABS pad printed caps?

[Touch_It]

I'm going to go back and read through all of this so edits might come.  As far as switches I've used im going to say cherry blue or Matias clicky ( though I need to get them into my board b4 I make an actual decision).  Also I'm going to be that guy for a second and say that you can buy brand new unicomp pivot plates and springs, though by design they are not a discrete switch.

[Sigmoid]

Also I'm going to be that guy for a second and say that you can buy brand new unicomp pivot plates and springs, though by design they are not a discrete switch.

Pivot plates and springs aren't a switch. They are spare parts. In order to make a brand new, custom layout Model M, you need to manufacture custom contact membranes and a keyboard plate with barrels. To make a new Model F, you need to make barrels, conductive plastic (!) pivot plates, a metal front plate and back plate, and a PCB.

I was thinking more along the lines of actual switches.

If there was a truly best switch, we would all be typing on it and there wouldn't be much of a forum. "Best" should really read "personal preference".

Of course, but still it's obviously not 100% subjective. While some people like louder clicks and some like lighter keys than others, most people will agree that wobbly keys are bad, that switches that last longer are better, etc. It might be hard to pronounce an obvious winner, there has to be some kind of consensus.

[chyros]

Of course, but still it's obviously not 100% subjective. While some people like louder clicks and some like lighter keys than others, most people will agree that wobbly keys are bad, that switches that last longer are better, etc. It might be hard to pronounce an obvious winner, there has to be some kind of consensus.

Thing is, one almost always comes at the cost of another. If you look at all switches regarding just one attribute, yes, it's probably not too hard to make a fairly objective ranking. But other switches would be good in other areas. Some people might even like a certain inferiority in a switch. Some people even like rubber domes more than any mechanical switch.

[Huxley2500]

If not clicky why bother?

[Sigmoid]

Thing is, one almost always comes at the cost of another. If you look at all switches regarding just one attribute, yes, it's probably not too hard to make a fairly objective ranking. But other switches would be good in other areas. Some people might even like a certain inferiority in a switch. Some people even like rubber domes more than any mechanical switch.

Sure, but hearing people's opinions on why one switch or another is better allows one to form an opinion of one's own.

By the way... what kind of keyswitches are in production at this time even? I know of Cherry MX, an endless league of MX-compatibles and knockoffs, and of Mattias.
Is there any other? Are any of the MX-compatibles worth of mention, as in having a different construction, include some innovation, or have some sort of potential superiority over Cherry MX switches, or are they dime a dozen knockoffs? (Most I've seen even copy the color coding of Cherry MX...)

[Touch_It]

If not clicky why bother?

This lol.  I suppose I could see the appeal but....

[MrRooks]

Thing is, one almost always comes at the cost of another. If you look at all switches regarding just one attribute, yes, it's probably not too hard to make a fairly objective ranking. But other switches would be good in other areas. Some people might even like a certain inferiority in a switch. Some people even like rubber domes more than any mechanical switch.

Sure, but hearing people's opinions on why one switch or another is better allows one to form an opinion of one's own.

By the way... what kind of keyswitches are in production at this time even? I know of Cherry MX, an endless league of MX-compatibles and knockoffs, and of Mattias.
Is there any other? Are any of the MX-compatibles worth of mention, as in having a different construction, include some innovation, or have some sort of potential superiority over Cherry MX switches, or are they dime a dozen knockoffs? (Most I've seen even copy the color coding of Cherry MX...)

That's the thing though, there are already tons of threads out there with opinions. You could spend weeks reading through existing switch opinion threads covering every switch, currently made or not.

[Zukoi]

In a thread about switches that aren't trope or IBM, the thread still goes to trope and IBM.

I see how it is.