Question about HHKB layout (bkspace and delete keys)

[illitirit]

I just got an HHKB that I plan to cannibalize to 55g / novatouch stems.

However after using the keyboard for a couple of minutes now I am not liking how the backspace and delete key functions work.

I have dipswitches 1 and 3 on.

3 switches the del key to become a dedicated backspace key.

However, I had thought that if 3 was on, then i could use fn+backspace to become delete.  This doesnt seem to be the case however,  I still have to use fn+~ in order to use delete.

I use my delete key all the time so this is not a welcoming change to me.

Is there anyway to either have a dedicated del + backspace key OR have delete become fn+backspace??

Thanks for any replies.

[Ludovician]

I believe that if you use a Hasu replacement controller you can fully reprogram the board to your liking.

[illitirit]

I believe that if you use a Hasu replacement controller you can fully reprogram the board to your liking.

Damn I really dont want to spend anymore money after buying 3 topre boards....

Just for my information...how much does the controller cost?

[ghostjuggernaut]

Its about 70 or so.

[trizkut]

Its about 70 or so.

It's $40 + $8 shipping
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56494.0


Or if you want a 'cheaper' route, you could always grab a Teensy
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57008.msg1292217#msg1292217

[Polymer]

You'll get used to it...I'm not sure why you're finding it a big deal either because it isn't like on other keyboards the backspace doubles as delete...

[TopreFan333]

Or just remap the keys with software and spare yourself all that expensive tinkering.
I'm using Karabiner on Mac and it does everything you can imagine for remapping keys. I assume there's something equivalent for PC.

[ghostjuggernaut]

Its about 70 or so.

It's $40 + $8 shipping
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56494.0


Or if you want a 'cheaper' route, you could always grab a Teensy
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57008.msg1292217#msg1292217

My fault, I was thinking about the bluetooth version.

[APC-7]

Or just remap the keys with software and spare yourself all that expensive tinkering.
I'm using Karabiner on Mac and it does everything you can imagine for remapping keys. I assume there's something equivalent for PC.

On Linux there is xmodmap for X and vim for manually editing the keymap of the console.

That said, I would go with the replacement controller. When working in virtual machines or remote via SSH you'd have to change the keymap on all of the hosts - that just doesn't scale well. 

[TopreFan333]

Or just remap the keys with software and spare yourself all that expensive tinkering.
I'm using Karabiner on Mac and it does everything you can imagine for remapping keys. I assume there's something equivalent for PC.

On Linux there is xmodmap for X and vim for manually editing the keymap of the console.

That said, I would go with the replacement controller. When working in virtual machines or remote via SSH you'd have to change the keymap on all of the hosts - that just doesn't scale well. 

If you're not programming, none of that really applies though. I guess it depends on the OPs needs...

[steve.v]

If you're using a mac, look into seil and karabiner. It may not fully do what you want. I used it for a long time; many things I wanted weren't possible. I saved all the trouble by making my HHKB fully programmable via Hasu controller.

[illitirit]

Thanks for all the suggestion guys.  Looks like yeah my only option to get what I truly need is a new controller.

I am not ready for that yet as my HHKB is not even 3 days old. 

I will try to learn the layout and get used to it.  If i really just cant do it, then I will for sure pick up a controller.


I am still making alot of typos since the backspace key is so different than a regular TKL board.  The fn+~ = delete is really messing with my hands however.  Its kind of like learning a whole new instrument again lol.


Turning the dipswitch 5 on also helped me alot, swapping windows key and alt. 


Other than the layout issues, I just swapped 55g domes in.  The typing experience to me right now is just perfect.  This might be my one and only for a few years.



Oh and one last question:   Does anyone have trouble getting in their PC bios with the HHKB?  I cant seem to get into bios regardless of any combination I am pressing on the board.

Kind of hard to overclock my new PC when I cant even get into bios lol

[Polymer]

Still confused as to why the delete thing is a bigger deal than say, the arrow keys or any of the major changes...

Backspace, I can understand, it is in a different position (you'll get used to it and you'll find it is better)...The Delete thing and not having it as FN+Backspace makes no sense...because it isn't that way on other keyboards anyways..so you'll have to get used to the new position anyways...and if you use a left FN it makes it delete easy to use and remember because it is right in the corner. 

The layout takes awhile to get used to..just like any 60% board...

[illitirit]

Still confused as to why the delete thing is a bigger deal than say, the arrow keys or any of the major changes...

Backspace, I can understand, it is in a different position (you'll get used to it and you'll find it is better)...The Delete thing and not having it as FN+Backspace makes no sense...because it isn't that way on other keyboards anyways..so you'll have to get used to the new position anyways...and if you use a left FN it makes it delete easy to use and remember because it is right in the corner. 

The layout takes awhile to get used to..just like any 60% board...

The reason why personally the delete key is a problem for me is due to my work.

I spend alot of time in visio / cad software and alot of times I have my right hand glued to my mouse, I cant move my right hand away from it or I will lose cursor position.

Therefore, not having a dedicated delete key means that i have to use only my lefthand to reach fn+~ to use the delete key which feels extremely awkward.  In a work session I probably will use delete up to, and this is a guess, at least like 500 times.  So constantly reaching over and turning my left hand into a bird claw is a bit annoying.

I am slowly getting adjusted to it however. 

Actually after doing some work now for a few hours, the new position of the control key is really screwing with me lol.  Basic functions like copy and paste, i keep putting my pinky where control used to be on the bottom left hand of the board.  But I know it just takes time so this doesnt bother me much.

[Polymer]

But wouldn't you have this problem with every 60% board?  The reason I'm asking is because you originally seemed to suggest it had to do with the fact that it wasn't FN+backspace..which would still give you the exact same problem you're describing now..

I'd also say, given you'd move your left hand away from home row and all the way to delete on a normal keyboard because you have to leave your right hand on the mouse..

Why not move your left hand so your left thumb is on FN and you hit delete with one of your other fingers?  Seems easy enough...actually, any other position would probably be more difficult...

[illitirit]

But wouldn't you have this problem with every 60% board?  The reason I'm asking is because you originally seemed to suggest it had to do with the fact that it wasn't FN+backspace..which would still give you the exact same problem you're describing now..

I'd also say, given you'd move your left hand away from home row and all the way to delete on a normal keyboard because you have to leave your right hand on the mouse..

Why not move your left hand so your left thumb is on FN and you hit delete with one of your other fingers?  Seems easy enough...actually, any other position would probably be more difficult...

true yes I would have this problem with any other 60% keyboard, other than the fc660c/m.

This is my first 60% so its really different to me, its like a whole new world lol.

Aftering using standard layout for a good 20 years, old habits I have had are extremely hard to break.  Just gotta work out the kinks I suppose.

[Macsmasher]

I don't use my HHKB that much. As a coder, I prefer my RF TKL boards. And of course I have Control on home row. But what I really liked about the HHKB is having Backspace right above Enter. In fact, I liked it so much I use AHK to swap those keys on my TKL boards.

[illitirit]

Ok so I finally got around to messing with autohotkey.

It works great and it let me do exactly as I wanted.

I remapped ` to del.  So now I dont have to hold down the Fn button when I want to use the delete key.


This however brings up a bit of a problem that I hope someone with more autohotkey experience can answer.


So now that my ` is my del key, the other 2 functions on this key dont work anymore while the script is running

Currently my easy script has been :


`::Del


Which now my ` is my del key.  But how would i make it so that

shift + ` = ~
control + ` = `

in addition to my original script ?
Any help would be appreciated.

[illitirit]

Nevermind I figured it out.

Im going to go out on a limb and say that autohotkey does not like the Fn key.

So Currently now i have:

` = delete
 shift + ` = ~
control + ` = `

Now I am happy.

If anyone is interested in my AHK script, its :

Code: [Select]

`::Del
LShift & `::Send, ~
Control & `::Send, ``

[APC-7]

Glad you found an elegant solution. Kudos for sharing your journey to get there - it might help someone out someday.

[burn1nsun]

I also was kind of unhappy with that at first, but then I got used to it really quick, the layout overall was really easy to get used to, I didn't have any problems with the arrow keys, I do use them often though.