IBM label Unicomp 2004 White M13 $65+ship BIN

[E TwentyNine]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151601597691

Listing title is wrong but pictures show M13.  This should have the Unicomp style trackpoint and not the TPII style trackpoint.

[Snowdog993]

I think Wyatt8740 was looking for one of those.  Hopefully he sees this post.
Yeah the Unicomp "On the Stick" keyboard without the windows keys.

[E TwentyNine]

I think Wyatt8740 was looking for one of those.  Hopefully he sees this post.
Yeah the Unicomp "On the Stick" keyboard without the windows keys.

Was that the guy that wanted to re-case a newer Unicomp into an old M case?   Recall what thread that was?

Edit: Found it. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=69009

[figit090]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I was wondering how these compare to the standard model M, say 1988 era? I'm looking at getting one but I'm not sure what a good price for one would be.  Most model M's are $70-110 on ebay.  I figured the posters in this thread might chime in if I posted here.

How's the trackpoint on these?

All things considered is it worth buying one compared to a Model M? 

Maybe I should have started a new thread... :/  If so I'm sorry.

[ander]

M13s aren't quite as sturdily built as Model M's. And unlike the Model M's dye-sublimated keys, the M13's keys are pad-printed, which means their legends can eventually wear off. M13s were made with lower-quality capacitors that have been known to fail (even when the boards were stored and not used) and need replacing. They also draw over twice the power of Model M's and have been known to have overheating problems as a result.

But people like them because they come in black. And of course there's the trackpoint, which some people really like too (though I assumed they were just alternatives to trackpads for laptops, and was surprised to learn there were regular keyboards with trackpoints too).

Here's a GH page discussing M13s, and here's another one. And while this topic isn't exclusively about M13s, it ended up with a lot of interesting details and opinions about them.

[E TwentyNine]

M13s aren't quite as sturdily built as Model M's...

There's a number of things incorrect here.

The M13's barrel plates are tougher than the M's of the time, they had additional reinforcement due to the trackpoint.

Capacitor problems weren't an issue with M13's, they were an issue with M2's.  Caps could die in any scenario, but the M2's were particularly notorious for it.

Only the black M13's are pad printed, same as the black-keyed M's Unicomp sold at one time.   The beige and industrial M13's have the same dyesub as always.

They IBM/Lexmark ones do draw a lot more power but again I've only heard of possibly problems with overheating, never actually discussed with anyone who had it happen to them.   I don't believe this was an issue with the Unicomp design.

Additionally, the Unicomp M13's have a different trackpoint mechanism than the earlier IBM/Lexmark built M's, generally considered to be inferior.  You cannot retrofit the older trackpoint to the unicomp due to different electronics.

There's one for sale on ebay now that had a low buy it now price but someone bid.  Thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74354.0

[Snowdog993]

M13s aren't quite as sturdily built as Model M's...

There's a number of things incorrect here.

The M13's barrel plates are tougher than the M's of the time, they had additional reinforcement due to the trackpoint.

Capacitor problems weren't an issue with M13's, they were an issue with M2's.  Caps could die in any scenario, but the M2's were particularly notorious for it.

Only the black M13's are pad printed, same as the black-keyed M's Unicomp sold at one time.   The beige and industrial M13's have the same dyesub as always.

They IBM/Lexmark ones do draw a lot more power but again I've only heard of possibly problems with overheating, never actually discussed with anyone who had it happen to them.   I don't believe this was an issue with the Unicomp design.

Additionally, the Unicomp M13's have a different trackpoint mechanism than the earlier IBM/Lexmark built M's, generally considered to be inferior.  You cannot retrofit the older trackpoint to the unicomp due to different electronics.

There's one for sale on ebay now that had a low buy it now price but someone bid.  Thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74354.0

Agreed!  Both the M13's I have are actually VERY solid keyboards.  No question.
Have any doubts?  I had one that I honestly was thinking was a goner.
Thank goodness Maxx restored it.

http://imgur.com/a/b4Q7Q

This goes to show you can't always believe everything everyone says unless you experience it yourself.

[E TwentyNine]

I love those inserts he sells for the barrel plates.  Simpler than painting, lasts forever, and you can get shinier colors.  I'm not much for bling but if I were...

On topic, one thing I will add where the M13 falls behind standard M's of the time but is right in line with later M's with the hardwired cable.

Cables on M13 degrade. I've never seen an M (or F cable for that matter) have its covering flake off. The M13 cable is more flat/oval than the nice heavy round detachable cable and something about the material/construction is not up to the quality of the standard M cable.  You can see it in the pictures Snowdog linked.

They're easily replaced, $15 + shipping from unicomp.

[SpAmRaY]

M13s aren't quite as sturdily built as Model M's...

There's a number of things incorrect here.

The M13's barrel plates are tougher than the M's of the time, they had additional reinforcement due to the trackpoint.

Capacitor problems weren't an issue with M13's, they were an issue with M2's.  Caps could die in any scenario, but the M2's were particularly notorious for it.

Only the black M13's are pad printed, same as the black-keyed M's Unicomp sold at one time.   The beige and industrial M13's have the same dyesub as always.

They IBM/Lexmark ones do draw a lot more power but again I've only heard of possibly problems with overheating, never actually discussed with anyone who had it happen to them.   I don't believe this was an issue with the Unicomp design.

Additionally, the Unicomp M13's have a different trackpoint mechanism than the earlier IBM/Lexmark built M's, generally considered to be inferior.  You cannot retrofit the older trackpoint to the unicomp due to different electronics.

There's one for sale on ebay now that had a low buy it now price but someone bid.  Thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74354.0

Agreed!  Both the M13's I have are actually VERY solid keyboards.  No question.
Have any doubts?  I had one that I honestly was thinking was a goner.
Thank goodness Maxx restored it.

http://imgur.com/a/b4Q7Q

This goes to show you can't always believe everything everyone says unless you experience it yourself.

That copper overlay is gorgeous. Is there a thread or website that highlight Maxx's work?

[Snowdog993]

That copper overlay is gorgeous. Is there a thread or website that highlight Maxx's work?

Sure!  You can look at a lot of the restoration work that Maxx has done at:
http://phosphorglow.net/ and click on the Previous Model M's Archive link on the page.
I believe the Trackpoint he restored for me is #130.

I love those inserts he sells for the barrel plates.  Simpler than painting, lasts forever, and you can get shinier colors.  I'm not much for bling but if I were...

On topic, one thing I will add where the M13 falls behind standard M's of the time but is right in line with later M's with the hardwired cable.

Cables on M13 degrade. I've never seen an M (or F cable for that matter) have its covering flake off. The M13 cable is more flat/oval than the nice heavy round detachable cable and something about the material/construction is not up to the quality of the standard M cable.  You can see it in the pictures Snowdog linked.

They're easily replaced, $15 + shipping from unicomp.

I agree again!  The cables do degrade over time! However, (and this is strange to me!) my black cable on my black M13 is as good as the new one I have on the other one!  Maybe it's a different material or something.
The replacement cable I did get from Unicomp was actually better than I expected!  If you need to replace the cord on an M13, I definitely recommend the Unicomp replacement cable.

[figit090]

M13s aren't quite as sturdily built as Model M's...

There's a number of things incorrect here.

The M13's barrel plates are tougher than the M's of the time, they had additional reinforcement due to the trackpoint.

Capacitor problems weren't an issue with M13's, they were an issue with M2's.  Caps could die in any scenario, but the M2's were particularly notorious for it.

Only the black M13's are pad printed, same as the black-keyed M's Unicomp sold at one time.   The beige and industrial M13's have the same dyesub as always.

They IBM/Lexmark ones do draw a lot more power but again I've only heard of possibly problems with overheating, never actually discussed with anyone who had it happen to them.   I don't believe this was an issue with the Unicomp design.

Additionally, the Unicomp M13's have a different trackpoint mechanism than the earlier IBM/Lexmark built M's, generally considered to be inferior.  You cannot retrofit the older trackpoint to the unicomp due to different electronics.

There's one for sale on ebay now that had a low buy it now price but someone bid.  Thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74354.0

HAHA, that bidder is me.     I hope you guys will let me win? 

Thank you for all the information, I really appreciate it.  I currently use a Kinesis Classic with Cherry MX Browns, it's really nice.  I always wanted to try a buckling spring though..  I just can't afford to pay a ton for one especially if it's ergonomics are going to make me suffer.  (time will tell)   I did want one for occasional use at the least though.

M13s aren't quite as sturdily built as Model M's...

[...]
There's one for sale on ebay now that had a low buy it now price but someone bid.  Thread here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=74354.0

Agreed!  Both the M13's I have are actually VERY solid keyboards.  No question.
Have any doubts?  I had one that I honestly was thinking was a goner.
Thank goodness Maxx restored it.

http://imgur.com/a/b4Q7Q

This goes to show you can't always believe everything everyone says unless you experience it yourself.

Cool copper plate!  But what was that about it being awful to type on?     did that issue get fixed?   

[Snowdog993]

Cool copper plate!  But what was that about it being awful to type on?     did that issue get fixed?

Easy enough.  When I originally got the keyboard, it was literally trashed to the point of me wondering whether or not it's worth it to restore it.  I went ahead and ordered a new cable from Unicomp, and replaced that.  I cleaned up the keyboard to the best of my ability.
Once I got everything all cleaned up, I put it back together, but realized the trackpoint buttons were not working at all.  Also, when I typed on it, it felt very dead.  There was no life at all, unlike my black M13 keyboard.

Ultimately, I made the decision to have Maxx from Phosphorglow.net to restore it and fix the buttons.

After he got it, he discovered that the keyboard was pretty much toast.  The thing was run through a dishwasher apparently, damaging the blanket, rusting the springs, and the membrane was still functional, but had to be cleaned up.

Maxx fabricated new buttons for the Trackpoint, (real mouse buttons instead of the membrane buttons that the Trackpoint originally had) replaced the springs, and restored the keyboard to it's original new condition.
He also put the new copper underlay on it.  It turned out incredible.

When I got it back, the life in the keys did return.  The keyboard works like it came right off the factory floor.
I am so glad I made that decision to have it restored.  I wouldn't (and couldn't) use the keyboard before, and now I can say that keyboard is 100% functional.

So to answer your question....

Yes the issue was addressed and yes the keyboard functions like brand spanking new!

[figit090]

Cool copper plate!  But what was that about it being awful to type on?     did that issue get fixed?

Easy enough.  When I originally got the keyboard, it was literally trashed to the point of me wondering whether or not it's worth it to restore it.  I went ahead and ordered a new cable from Unicomp, and replaced that.  I cleaned up the keyboard to the best of my ability.
Once I got everything all cleaned up, I put it back together, but realized the trackpoint buttons were not working at all.  Also, when I typed on it, it felt very dead.  There was no life at all, unlike my black M13 keyboard.

Ultimately, I made the decision to have Maxx from Phosphorglow.net to restore it and fix the buttons.

After he got it, he discovered that the keyboard was pretty much toast.  The thing was run through a dishwasher apparently, damaging the blanket, rusting the springs, and the membrane was still functional, but had to be cleaned up.

Maxx fabricated new buttons for the Trackpoint, (real mouse buttons instead of the membrane buttons that the Trackpoint originally had) replaced the springs, and restored the keyboard to it's original new condition.
He also put the new copper underlay on it.  It turned out incredible.

When I got it back, the life in the keys did return.  The keyboard works like it came right off the factory floor.
I am so glad I made that decision to have it restored.  I wouldn't (and couldn't) use the keyboard before, and now I can say that keyboard is 100% functional.

So to answer your question....

Yes the issue was addressed and yes the keyboard functions like brand spanking new!

Oh man!  I just read about a dishwasher victim on clickykeyboards... interesting to hear another story the same night, lol.  Can I ask you how much the full refurbish cost, and how do you like the trackpoint? 

If I get the one I'm looking at I'd probably rewire it with real buttons as well, or potentially have him do it.  Probably can't afford it, though, so I'd likely do it myself...

[Snowdog993]

Contact him on his site!  Let him know what you need to have done!

I really can't tell you how much it will cost you because each job he does is specific to the client.
I will tell you it's worth every penny.

Anyone that has had a restoration or a custom job done by Maxx will tell you that too.

Edit: NO, it's not expensive.  It really comes down to exactly what you want.

[figit090]

Cool thanks, if I get the keyboard I will contact him.  

Excited to maybe FINALLY get a model M...

[E TwentyNine]

HAHA, that bidder is me.     I hope you guys will let me win? 

Didn't it have a buy it now of around $40?  Doubt you're going to do much better than that with bids, might have been a good idea to just buy it now.

I don't think you'll get a ton of competition, I certainly won't be bidding.

[figit090]

HAHA, that bidder is me.     I hope you guys will let me win? 

Didn't it have a buy it now of around $40?  Doubt you're going to do much better than that with bids, might have been a good idea to just buy it now.

I don't think you'll get a ton of competition, I certainly won't be bidding.

Certainly? Any reason in particular?  It looks like a nasty board to be honest. 

Thanks for the advice.  I've been successful on eBay for years, and it isn't worth the BIN in my opinion, no sense biting for it when I could put 40 towards a nice, clean model m..  No word on if the track point even works for sure either.

[ander]

Actually, I forgot: I started a topic on this back in March, expressing my puzzlement over M13s and why people valued them so much, and some of you guys chimed in and educated me. That's where I should've pointed the OP, rather than rambling on so forgetfully.

[Snowdog993]

Cool thanks, if I get the keyboard I will contact him.  

Excited to maybe FINALLY get a model M...

Did you get it?

[E TwentyNine]

HAHA, that bidder is me.     I hope you guys will let me win? 

Didn't it have a buy it now of around $40?  Doubt you're going to do much better than that with bids, might have been a good idea to just buy it now.

I don't think you'll get a ton of competition, I certainly won't be bidding.

Certainly? Any reason in particular?  It looks like a nasty board to be honest. 

Thanks for the advice.  I've been successful on eBay for years, and it isn't worth the BIN in my opinion, no sense biting for it when I could put 40 towards a nice, clean model m..  No word on if the track point even works for sure either.

If I were in the market for one I might have bid, as M's clean up nicely, to almost new condition as long as there's no physical damage.

But I have more than my share of M's.