SteelSeries mices: Kinzu, Xai, etc.

[masta]

I read some reviews that the SteelSeries Kinzu was really bad.

I waiting for the Xai reviews. This mouse can be a hit or a miss.

Im looking for a replacement for my MX300.

I want similar shape, no side buttons cause they prevent my grip (you have keyboards for that IMO), and a good optical sensor as I keep moving my MX300 sensor to new logitech optical wheel mouses. It's working great but one day my sensor will break.

Any ideas?

[ch_123]

Just get the Ikari. I think the Kinzu is designed as a laptop mouse, or a mouse for those with small hands. The Ikari has side buttons, but they are not as intrusive as with other mice.

[Shuki]

The MX300 shape looks very similar to the Diamondback. I guess if you are looking for a replacement that would be it.

However if you are gaming competitively then the 3G version may not be best as it has negative acceleration issues. However the old optical version have excellent sensors but are hard to find. The last shop I know in the UK that supplies them have just sold out I probably should have bought one spare just in case.

I ordered the Xai in around September so hopefully that will be a good mouse. The most important thing in a mouse is probably the shape, especially so in casual use so I guess it's a case of trying a few of them.

[Takahashi]

The MX300 shape looks very similar to the Diamondback. I guess if you are looking for a replacement that would be it.

They are very different to hold. I have them both.
The Razer Diamondback is lower and longer so you probably will shape your hands differently when holding it.
The side buttons might be annoying for you.


Logitech MX300 (2002? - 20050906) most left
Razer Diamondback Plasma (20050906 - 20081231) middle left
Razer Lachesis (20081231- 200903??) most right
Razer Diamondback 3G (200903?? - present) middle right

However if you are gaming competitively then the 3G version may not be best as it has negative acceleration issues. However the old optical version have excellent sensors but are hard to find. The last shop I know in the UK that supplies them have just sold out I probably should have bought one spare just in case.

It was the other way around for me.

[lmnop]

indeed it is the other way around.

Depending on date of manufacture. The A3070 sensor suffered from an issue known as pixel jitter compensation; one units worth (a single pixel in the context of a GUI desktop with a 1:1 mouse input/output ratio) of accurate movement was lost immediately after reversing the physical direction of travel of the Diamondback, resulting in the 'skipping' of the mouse pointer. This issue only occurred at high sensitivity settings, and could be largely negated with the use of a software fix (programmed by a helpful Razer user going by the name of "Atalan"), made available as a patch and in Razers drivers. Later runs of the Diamondback used the A3080 sensor which did not suffer from this issue.

[Shuki]

No no no, the A3088 sensor is what is in the plasma diamondback which uses infrared.
The A3070 sensor is what is in the optical version which has the pixel skip. This is also fixed in the latest drivers or the atalan patch so it's not a problem.

The new "3G" diamondback uses infrared and the same sensor which is in the DeathAdder 3G.

I also got my Xai today but the curser just stops moving every 20 seconds so I had to RMA it.

The quality of it though is great, the material, scroll wheel, buttons... too bad mine was faulty

[lmnop]

the Razer Diamondback used four sensors the 3070, 3080E, 3088 and 3668. all four are optical and made by Avago. sorry to hear about your Xai terrific mouse.

[Arc'xer]

I posted this on another thread but it could be early production run quality control issues.

But....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGZZhM6furs&fmt=18

It's a 3 part pretty in depth review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9O4h2OP1DI&fmt=22

He needs to get a better mic it's pretty low volume. The Xai isn't as deeply affected as the Kinzu but it still has problems.

Again, this issue might be bad production run. But it's ironic because every steelseries mice that comes out has some sort of problem like this early on and even down the line people still have problems. I know every company has their problems but it's just very ironic.

Also your MX300 is actually an excellent gaming mouse so long as you overclock the polling rate, it benefits the MX300 a lot.

MX300 @ 500hz, 400dpi

Razer is releasing a new mouse Razer Abyssus. It's a pretty basic mouse 3 button, it's a salmosa clone basically. Great for RTS games and FPS gamers that aren't into multi-button mice. But the price is a little high if it sold for 29.99-34.99 it would undercut the Kinzu.

[lmnop]

the Razer 3/3.5G Infared Laser Sensor is part of the Philips Twin-Eye Series. both sensors have jitter, z-axis tracking and pattern recognition problems. it has to be really embarrassing for them, the Mamba, their flagship model that has been on the market nearly a year cannot track on the Razer eXactmat.

any Razer kit bashes that use those sensors ie DeathAdder Revision, Abyssus, Mamba, Naga, Orochi, Lachesis as well as the Silverstone Raven and Cooler Master Storm Sentinel Advance I don't recommend.

i'm not sure what Razer has planned for 2010 but I hope they stop these kit bashes and go back to using Avago sensors in their mice.

if you are going to buy the Xai make sure you buy it in a store and not online. not sure what the problem is but it's random and not native which indicates a manufacturing problem which SteelSeries has had before with the Ikari Laser.

[Shuki]

the Razer Diamondback used three sensors the 3070, 3080E and 3088. all three are optical and made by Avago.  it doesn't use the Avago 3688 optical sensor found in the DeathAdder, Salmosa and Boomslang CE 2007. sorry to hear about your Xai terrific mouse.

Maybe I was unclear. The DB3G uses the same sensor as the Deathadder. The older diamondbacks had Agilent sensors! They came in two "flavours" chameleon and magma (Opitcal with the 3070 sensor and later 3080). The Plasma and acid green used the  3088 sensor (as in the razer krait) .

Trust me  I own all of them

[lmnop]

doll in Auguest 2005 Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co in conjunction with venture capital firms Silver Lake Partners purchased Agilent Technologies for $2.66 billion dollars and renamed the company Avago Technologies. Avago sensors are Agilent sensors. I know how they were differentiated.

• 2004 Diamondback (Avago 3070, 3080E) came in Red, Blue and Green.
• 2005 Diamondback Plasma (Avago 3088) came in Blue.
• 2007 Diamondblack 3G (Avago 3668) came in Red, Blue and Green.

I forgot about the fourth sensor, edited my post above.

[Shuki]

indeed it is the other way around.

I would go with the Red Diamondback because of it's sensor it actually uses an Avago ADNS-3070 (originally used Avago ADNS-3080E, 3088) not the Razer 3G Infared Optical the DeathAdder (original) and Boomslang use. not sure about the 3070 but the 308* series leaves the Lachesis and Copperhead in the dust

Does not compute.

There was no green or blue diamondback that came with the 3070 or 3080 sensor. Just the red and chameleon.

Infrared =/= optical (optical means you can see it)

Even though Avago took over the company they are still Agilent sensors.

[lmnop]

ouch bringing up a post from another forum is cold. I was wrong probably didn't take my dexedrine or I was up late when I posted that. like I said above I forgot about the 3688.



I don't understand why you keep going on about Infrared and Optical. Razer simply uses a IR LED as a light source instead of a standard VL LED with the optical sensor. I have heard of negative acceleration issues with the 3688 but thats when the mouse is knocking on death's door.

[timw4mail]

I didn't realize mice could be so controversial.

[lmnop]

[Shuki]

I was wrong probably didn't take my dexedrine or I was up late when I posted that.

No you were right! I actually stumbled across this while looking for a thread at razer blueprints on the same issue, which explained why the DB3G has neg accel and the deathadder doesn't despite having the same sensor. I read this and I thought "yeh this guy knows what he is talking about" and then I realised it was in fact you that made the post :s

[Arc'xer]

I didn't realize mice could be so controversial.

Well yeah the issues is mostly gaming and the sensor(engine) things like tracking speed(amount of distance a mouse can track before malfunctioning subdivided into Perfect control speed and Malfunction speed), FPS(amount of snapshots per second a mouse takes of the surface), DPI(pixels per inch, every inch you move translate to said DPI set of the pixels on the monitor, but some people are low sensitivity, some are medium, some high.), polling rate(USB polling rate is standard at 125Hz(8ms); can be updated to 250Hz(4ms), 500Hz(2ms), 1000Hz(1ms). Basically data reporting per second to the computer(500 updates per second or 2ms), if your still on a CRT or a low latency LCD it'll make the mouse feel more snappy and smoother. Some people say it doesn't make a difference, but their LCD might have too much input lag to feel it. Plus polling rate can even affect sensitivity even not by much but since it updates more frequently you can reduce some since the reporting compensates.)

Even mouse pads have a following, many people don't really think they are important but you'd be surprised how they can be. Of course it all depends on what you like cloth, coated cloth, hybrid(cloth and plastic) plastic, aluminum, glass, thin and thick, etc.etc. Size is another factor many people stick with small hand sized mouse pads and don't realize there's MUCH bigger pads. It's why cloth pads and even some plastic pads are so huge they take up half the desk.

[timw4mail]

Even mouse pads have a following, many people don't really think they are important but you'd be surprised how they can be. Of course it all depends on what you like cloth, coated cloth, hybrid(cloth and plastic) plastic, aluminum, glass, thin and thick, etc.etc. Size is another factor many people stick with small hand sized mouse pads and don't realize there's MUCH bigger pads. It's why cloth pads and even some plastic pads are so huge they take up half the desk.

That's why I've got the world's largest mousepad (Ripper XXL). 36x18" of pure mousing surface, with plenty of room to spare for any of my keyboards.

[lmnop]

since the Japanese and ESReality have been able to create a benchmark I subscribe to a different school of thought and encourage people to purchase the surface that offers optimal speed and tracking based on that sensor and unfortunately the more money you spend the better. I look at comfort as a non issue because a couple years ago a pro gamer recommended a nylon sleeve and I thought it was silly but a lot of pro gamers now wear them. they create less friction when you are dealing with the arm of a chair, desk and surface and there is no contact between the skin and surface.

I use a modified SteelSeries Ikari Laser and a custom Func Archetype 1030 30r/30r Aluminum surface. however i'm thinking of upgrading to the SteelSeries Xai.

Plus, PC gaming is dying, dying, dying............

This year the PC gaming market is worth over $20 billion, that figure will rise to $34 billion before 2012, and since 2005 there has been more gaming PCs shipped than the Wii, PS3 and 360 combined.

source

PC Gaming demise was greatly exaggerated it was down but it was never dying.

PS, Xtrac Pads are great.

[Arc'xer]

I remain skeptical.  I can FEEL the difference in keyboards.  A lot of times I consider these DPI wars something planted by the mouse manufacturers to increase sales.

Plus, PC gaming is dying, dying, dying............

(my kid would kill me for saying this because I'm just pissed that L4D2 kept him up too late last night).

I think it's in a slump not death. You may say otherwise but I really doubt that PC gaming will go poof out of thin air.

DPI is debated a lot, some people feel it's a gimmick some people say it's a scam. In simplest terms DPI is nothing but a linear speed modifier(So long as windows is set to 6/11(1:1 ratio) or else it changes the speed). Move an inch and you move the DPI of set value. Use a WMO 1.1 for example: 400 DPI and you move 400 pixels on screen per inch. Use a deathadder and have it at 1800 DPI and you move 1,800 pixels on screen per inch.

From what I read a lot of people feel it's a gimmick because some people have calculated the perfect pixel accuracy to the field of view of the game and resolution of their monitor. Some say it's impossible for a human to manipulate the DPI that is coming out like 5600/5700 our hands are not fine enough to control it.

I mentioned this on another thread some of these people are counter-strike players, CS has a problem with mice. CS uses an X/Y overlay to calculate the mouse position. When you hit the edge of your screen it recenters the pointer that's running on your desktop to the center of the overlay. It's not a directinput game, meaning that counter-strike suffers from a lot of negative acceleration due to high DPI.

Your son plays TF2, unlike counter-strike the sensitivity value can go further below than 1.0. Many modern games can do the same Call of Duty's sensitivity goes from 0.01-100. So are many other games and quake engines, unreal games/engines, and many other modern games/engines.

The question that I have for all the people who say DPI is a gimmick is this.

Now I want to point out that my position on DPI is not out of skepticism I do think it has it's benefits but on practicality.(Like can it be used as an advantage, does it have a use things like that). I don't outright shoot it down.

A number of people will try and set a sensitivity to the size of their mousepad, if not and it's lower they will lift the mouse off the mousepad move it across the other side and sweep again.

Let's assume that person uses 400 DPI and 1.4-2.0 sensitivity. And they played CoD. With 1800 DPI to achieve a similar sensitivity feel you would need to go to a region of 0.700-0.800 sensitivity in-game. Say they used a G500 with 5700 DPI if they dropped their sensitivity to 0.07 or 0.05 so it feels the same. Wouldn't that be more accurate as the mouse is more in control of the speed thus your hand more in control.

But the debate also goes further. If someone has set their DPI and sensitivity to be maybe not pixel perfect accurate but accurate to the field of view and resolution, what's the point of more DPI. And that's where things get tricky because these people aren't going to be gaming on resolutions requiring that much DPI.

But still it leaves the question of what I mentioned above. Is the low DPI set to the resolution sensitivity going to be better than a extremely high DPI set 1 or 2 magnitudes lower than the sensitivity set by the others. In other words is the guy using a low DPI and a sensitivity modifier that the game has more control of more accurate or is the guy who has so much DPI that you can practically set the sensitivity so low that by all factors 99% of the game's control is in your mouse/hand.

(I forgot to add, I'm aware some people use very low sensitivities and mouse acceleration. They set their sensitivity so low they can hardly turn but if they flick their mouse fast enough the acceleration kicks in. Here's an excellent system used by Soldier of Fortune 2. I'm ignoring low sens/mouse accel as some people don't like the inconsistencies brought about by it.)

[itlnstln]

I prefer Minesweeper.  My all-time record was 93 sec. on expert.
 
I was drunk that night.

[Shuki]

a couple years ago a pro gamer recommended a nylon sleeve.

Gaming in sleeves ? unthinkable!

I'm thinking of upgrading to the SteelSeries Xai

As long as you get a non - defective one and steelseries keep working on the firmware it should be a great choice!

Like the WMO but with a slightly lower profile, much better material and build quality.

[lmnop]

Gaming in sleeves ? unthinkable!



As long as you get a non - defective one and steelseries keep working on the firmware it should be a great choice!

Like the WMO but with a slightly lower profile, much better material and build quality.

no i'm serious they are called Paintball, Basketball or Baseball sleeves they are made out of nylon, spandex or a hybrid. they retail between $8.99-25.99

I cut mine from the elbow down so that the top and bottom side of my elbow pivots on the arm of my leather chair.

I am either one lucky lady or do my research because I have never had to RMA a product. that process is completely alienating to me and my extent with computers goes all the way back to my first XT in the early 90's. ahh the simpler times dialing up on telix, playing dopewars and giving the sysop attitude

PS, if Johnathan Wendel isn't a dex head slap me silly.

[Shuki]

I can't game in sleeves, end of story. Just feels like they are in the way.

I had never RMA'd a product until I got my Xai :/

[lmnop]

poor mush mush muffin cakes.

[lmnop]

oh mushy, poor muffin cakes

since you live in the UK you may not know what Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) is a prescription stimulant. when I watch Johnathan Wendel interviews I can't help but notice how fast his responses are, his brain looks like it's moving faster than his mouth.

the parietal lobe of your brain is responsible for attention and according to Mirsky's model of attention there is four and sometimes five areas.

• Focus Execute - ability to concentrate additional resources on a task
  
• Encode - ability to hold information in mind while performing other actions
  
• Recall - ability to recall information
  
• Sustain - ability to stay on task
  
• Shift - ability to shift attention from one stimulus to another
  

once stimulated all these areas are increased two, three fold. and that is only part of what stimulants provide they also provide energy, euphoria, confidence and weight loss.

did you know Japanese Gamers get paid $150,000 a year, televised and treated like rock stars? why wouldn't a professional gamer who competes in $1000-1,000,000 tournaments not take them?

there are various articles you can read about doping in cyber sports.

[lmnop]

oh mushy, poor muffin cakes

off topic but still in the spirit of gaming.

Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine) is a prescription stimulant. when I watch Johnathan Wendel interviews I can't help but notice how fast his responses are, his brain looks like it's moving faster than his mouth.

the parietal lobe of your brain is responsible for attention and according to Mirsky's model of attention it is made up of four sometimes five areas.

• Focus Execute - ability to concentrate additional resources on a task
  
• Encode - ability to hold information in mind while performing other actions
  
• Recall - ability to recall information
  
• Sustain - ability to stay on task
  
• Shift - ability to shift attention from one stimulus to another
  

once stimulated all these areas are increased two, three fold. and that is only part of what stimulants provide they also provide additional energy, euphoria, confidence and weight loss.

There are other ways of increasing focus and awareness in-game. Several gamers we have spoken to admit that substances such as methamphetamines and amphetamines are used by many top players, some of them of much renown and with big titles under their belts.

Many players followed suit and now, the use of tranquilizers is considered common among top-level professional gamers.

"A little valium, like one-third of a dose, will help you," says Riccardo "vicious" Zanocchio, one of the best UT players in his own time, a Quake 4 player today. "It helped me at CPL Winter. It blocks the part of the brain that is responsible for stress."

Amphetamines such as Ritalin, Focalin or Adderall are all drugs that gamers are familiar with. They are prescription drugs for children with ADHD (attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder) and, as such, they increase attention spans and allow the players to focus on something tedious, like training, for extended periods of time. A drug from the same family is the quite common crystal meth, said to be very popular among Counter-Strike players.

I don't blame them Japanese professional gamers get paid $150,000 a year, televised and treated like rock stars there is also professional tournaments worldwide with prizes ranging from $1000 to $1,000,000.

there are various articles you can read about doping in cyber sports.

[itlnstln]

Damn, and I thought baseball was bad. I guess Andre Agassi knew what he was doing.

[lmnop]

lets make one thing clear I take stimulants because I have Aspergers and GAD.

on another note I made lava cookies



sorry no mushrooms in them.

[itlnstln]

Mmm... Lava cookies.  I love chocolate.  
 
 
I hate mushrooms.

[lmnop]

have you seen this one

[Rajagra]

a couple years ago a pro gamer recommended a nylon sleeve and I thought it was silly but a lot of pro gamers now wear them. they create less friction when you are dealing with the arm of a chair, desk and surface and there is no contact between the skin and surface.

I'd just buy some cheap silk fancy dress gloves off ebay and maybe cut the fingertips off.

Of course you could also use them for, erm, dressing up. :smile:

source
PC Gaming demise was greatly exaggerated it was down but it was never dying.

But that also says the worrying bit:

“Don’t let the retail numbers fool you,” said Ted Pollak, co-author of the report series. “Enthusiast PC gamers often latch onto one or two games that offer multiplayer and stick to these titles for years. Hardware is where they spend the big bucks. The retail numbers don’t capture the casual and digitally distributed games either. Retail figures are not an accurate barometer for the health of the PC gaming industry.”

[lmnop]

I'd just buy some cheap silk fancy dress gloves off ebay and maybe cut the fingertips off.

Of course you could also use them for, erm, dressing up. :smile:


But that also says the worrying bit:

oh my maybe i'll pick up a pair for special occasions

I was glancing an article the other day about how Microsoft banned 1,000,000 X-Box Live Accounts because of Modern Warfare 2 piracy.

another interesting fact.

As a case study, Wardell released sales statistics of Stardock's latest products as proof that the market for hardcore PC games can be a profitable one.

Galactic Civilizations II

    * $1.2 million budget (original plus two expansions)
    * $500,000 marketing
    * $500,000 distribution
    * $10 million revenue

"I'll go out on a limb and say a ten-to-one ratio of investment to earnings is good," joked Wardell, who added that the marketing/distribution budgets include bribes and bonuses. "My jet fuel isn't cheap."

Sins of a Solar Empire

    * $1 million budget (original and one expansion)
    * $600,000 marketing
    * $800,000 distribution
    * $8 million in revenue so far

Source

whats interesting about this is Stardock is known for not using any copy protection at all in fact I would say they are against it because it's very easy for a warez group to disable it but a high percentage of there legitimate customers have an agonizing experience with it. Galactic Civilizations II series was a sleeper hit and Sins of a Solar Empire was a blockbuster and game of the year. neither one has any copyright protection and only requires a cd key if you want to patch the game.

[lmnop]

I'd just buy some cheap silk fancy dress gloves off ebay and maybe cut the fingertips off.

Of course you could also use them for, erm, dressing up. :smile:


But that also says the worrying bit:

oh my maybe i'll pick up a pair for special occasions

I was glancing an article the other day about how Microsoft banned 1,000,000 X-Box Live Accounts because of Modern Warfare 2 piracy.

another interesting fact.

As a case study, Wardell released sales statistics of Stardock's latest products as proof that the market for hardcore PC games can be a profitable one.

Galactic Civilizations II

    * $1.2 million budget (original plus two expansions)
    * $500,000 marketing
    * $500,000 distribution
    * $10 million revenue

"I'll go out on a limb and say a ten-to-one ratio of investment to earnings is good," joked Wardell, who added that the marketing/distribution budgets include bribes and bonuses. "My jet fuel isn't cheap."

Sins of a Solar Empire

    * $1 million budget (original and one expansion)
    * $600,000 marketing
    * $800,000 distribution
    * $8 million in revenue so far

source

whats interesting about this is Stardock is known for not using any copy protection at all in fact I would say they are against it because it's very easy for a warez group to disable it but a high percentage of their legitimate customers have an agonizing experience with it. Galactic Civilizations II series was a sleeper hit and Sins of a Solar Empire was a blockbuster and game of the year. neither one has any copy protection and only requires a cd key if you want to patch the game.

the whole "we are not going to port