Best type of switch for rhythm games?

[Bmxant]

Hey everyone, I've been lurking these forums for a few days, so I decide to register. I've used a SteelSeries 6G in the past and found the black switches way too hard on my carpal. I've been playing rhythm games for 8 years now (IIDX, O2jam, SM, Osu, ect), so I think it's time I try something new.


I'm kind of torn between the brown and blue switch. I need something that's going to be able to register extremely fast key presses and vibrations.


Thanks to all who reply.

[AndrewZorn]

i think any tactile click will do nothing but slow fast keypresses like that

[timw4mail]

I have a friend who plays those kinds of games, and he said that the rollup keyboard that I have worked pretty well for that. For this sort of thing, I'd think a Cherry black switch keyboard would work best, barring that, Cherry brown.

[ch_123]

Cherry Browns sound like what's needed here. Linear switches like the Cherry Blacks are best for this sort of stuff. The Brown is technically non-linear, but the tactile bump is supposedly quite subtle so it shouldn't interfere with the keypress. Browns are also much lighter too (45g resistance vs 70-80g for the Black switches)

[alpslover]

i think any tactile click will do nothing but slow fast keypresses like that

where's that youtube clip of that kid playing some rhythm game with a blue cherry filco tenkeyless?  he didn't seem to have any problems at all.

i've seen no real evidence presented that click tactile switches are inherently 'slower' in the real world than non-click tactile switches.  sure, we can speculate about hysteresis and it might even be logical to automatically assume that, for example, the inherently more complex two-piece slider of blue mx's would naturally result in greater hysteresis and thus lower theoretical performance compared to a simpler mechanism like on the browns or blacks, but the question is - does real world testing reflect this?

how about trying a simple speed test?  grab a non-clicky keyboard, open up a text editor, and simply hit a key repeatedly as quickly as you can.  count how many characters you were able to type in a given time interval (say, 30 seconds).  do it a few times and record the results.  then do the same with a click tactile keyboard.  are you substantially slower with the clicky keyboard?  try a bunch of different click tactile keyboards, because not all click tactile switches are the same.

i'll try this later with brown and blue cherries.


the das iii probably would not be well suited for rhythm games.

[mp29k]

someone help me out... what are rhythm games?  Is that kinda like the 'Rhythm method"  ;-)

[AndrewZorn]

where's that youtube clip of that kid playing some rhythm game with a blue cherry filco tenkeyless?  he didn't seem to have any problems at all.

i've seen no real evidence presented that click tactile switches are inherently 'slower' in the real world than non-click tactile switches.  sure, we can speculate about hysteresis and it might even be logical to automatically assume that, for example, the inherently more complex two-piece slider of blue mx's would naturally result in greater hysteresis and thus lower theoretical performance compared to a simpler mechanism like on the browns or blacks, but the question is - does real world testing reflect this?

how about trying a simple speed test?  grab a non-clicky keyboard, open up a text editor, and simply hit a key repeatedly as quickly as you can.  count how many characters you were able to type in a given time interval (say, 30 seconds).  do it a few times and record the results.  then do the same with a click tactile keyboard.  are you substantially slower with the clicky keyboard?  try a bunch of different click tactile keyboards, because not all click tactile switches are the same.

i'll try this later with brown and blue cherries.


the das iii probably would not be well suited for rhythm games.

i wish i had a more scientific answer... i just know my topre feels a lot more natural than browns in games... maybe it is just a weird tactility preference for me, because i feel more clicks/bumps/bottoming than keypresses on browns.

[Bmxant]

@ mp29k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWyyRpNBGRw&feature=related
(Not me, but someone I know)


I think I'm going to give the brown switches a shot, not 100% sure yet.


Thanks again.

[alpslover]

i wish i had a more scientific answer... i just know my topre feels a lot more natural than browns in games... maybe it is just a weird tactility preference for me, because i feel more clicks/bumps/bottoming than keypresses on browns.

i don't play rhythm games, so being able to repeatedly hit keys as fast as humanly possible isn't of critical importance to me.  that said, i've never once felt that click tactile switches have ever been a hindrance to my performance.  with the sole exception of the model m which fatigues me substantially quicker than all other keyboards i've used.

my post wasn't directed specifically at you so much as at people in general who make the claim that click tactile switches are automatically inferior for gaming, without providing the evidence to back it up.

i will admit that even the simple test i proposed is not particularly scientifc, in the sense that it does not take the human factor out of the equation.  but it really does no good to take the human factor out of the equation, because keyboards are human interface devices.

so the test is subjective - i fully expect that if people were to try it, we'd find that some people would perform better on non-clicky keyboards, some people would perform not, and for the rest, it won't make a bit of difference what kind of switches the keyboards use.

[alpslover]

i wish i had a more scientific answer... i just know my topre feels a lot more natural than browns in games... maybe it is just a weird tactility preference for me, because i feel more clicks/bumps/bottoming than keypresses on browns.

i don't play rhythm games, so being able to repeatedly hit keys as fast as humanly possible isn't of critical importance to me.  that said, i've never once felt that click tactile switches have ever been a hindrance to my performance.  with the sole exception of the model m which fatigues me substantially quicker than all other keyboards i've used.

my post wasn't directed specifically at you so much as at people in general who make the claim that click tactile switches are automatically inferior for gaming, without providing the evidence to back it up.

i will admit that even the simple test i proposed is not particularly scientific, in the sense that it does not take the human factor out of the equation.  but it really does no good to take the human factor out of the equation, because keyboards are human interface devices.

so the test is subjective - i fully expect that if people were to try it, we'd find that some people would perform better on non-clicky keyboards, some people would not, and for the rest, it won't make a bit of difference what kind of switches the keyboards use.

[microsoft windows]

For hitting a key as fast as possible, I wouldn't recommend a Model M. Try something like a higher quality rubber dome like an ORIGINAL Dell Quietkey as their keys are smooth but require very little force.

[Bmxant]

For hitting a key as fast as possible, I wouldn't recommend a Model M. Try something like a higher quality rubber dome like an ORIGINAL Dell Quietkey as their keys are smooth but require very little force.

I'm more concerned about accuracy. Force matters too, but not as much. Every standard keyboard I've typed or gamed on has felt sloppy imo.

[microsoft windows]

They're very accurate. I've been using at least 1 keyboard of that type for over a decade and have gotten very good results from it.

[alpslover]

I'm more concerned about accuracy..

accuracy is generally a measure of the typist, not the keyboard.  of course, the exception is when the keyboard is flawed (like the das).

[ch_123]

i don't play rhythm games, so being able to repeatedly hit keys as fast as humanly possible isn't of critical importance to me.  that said, i've never once felt that click tactile switches have ever been a hindrance to my performance.  with the sole exception of the model m which fatigues me substantially quicker than all other keyboards i've used.

Have you ever used a Blue Cherry switch for gaming? There's an oft described issue around here where it doesn't 'unclick' until you release almost fully. This is a bit of an issue where you want to press a button twice in rapid succession and you don't know when you have released it.

I'm explaining it badly, but it's definitely noticeable. I had never heard of it before when I noticed it, so it wasn't as if I was expecting it. But when I looked into it, others had commented on it.

[microsoft windows]

I've also seen crummy rubber domes where each key requires a different amount of pressure due to poor construction. That can definitely affect accuracy.

[alpslover]

Have you ever used a Blue Cherry switch for gaming? There's an oft described issue around here where it doesn't 'unclick' until you release almost fully. This is a bit of an issue where you want to press a button twice in rapid succession and you don't know when you have released it.

yes, i've used cherry blues for gaming, and now that you mention it, i've heard people bring that up before, but i personally have never run into that issue.

could it be the way that you (and those who are experiencing the issue) are hitting the keys?  if you're trying to finesse the switch around its actuation point, then i can see where you'd be more likely to run into the problem.  when i want to hit a key repeatedly as quickly as possible, i fully depress and release it, i don't finesse it.

[PikachuDX]

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[alpslover]

I think I'm going to give the brown switches a shot, not 100% sure yet.

browns actuate very easily, so if you normally rest your fingers on the keys, you may find the keyboard registering keypresses you didn't intend.

ideally, give both the browns and the blues a try to see which works better for you.

[microsoft windows]

Except the grocery store.

[alpslover]

results of my testing here:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=7882

[PRISONER 24601]

I would assume that black cherries would be your best bet. Something with a high actuation force that springs up quickly

[PikachuDX]

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[microsoft windows]

What is DIY Dance Dance Revolution Mario?