Hey GH

[xtrafrood]

This is really awkward because I am actually typing with a cheap membrane keyboard.  I'm still working on my homework before I make a decision but I wanted to stop and say hi first.  Hi!

[deductivemonkee]

Homework done. Buy alps.

[fanpeople]

HHKB

[xtrafrood]

HAHA!  Thank you for the laughs!  I'm currently using an Adesso UKB-132UB.  I can pop the key-caps off and clean it but the mushiness is driving me (excuse the term) bananas.

[rowdy]

Welcome to Geekhack!

What direction are your researches leading you?

Hint: As much research as you can do, nothing beats actually typing on a keyboard to properly get the feel of the switches and the layout.  See if a store near you has tester keyboards that you can type on, or whether you have friends who will let you try their mechanical keyboards.  Or, if you can, attend a meetup (listed in various topics in off topic) as quite often people take keyboards along for others to try.

[xtrafrood]

Hello, and thank you!  My researches have led me as far as finding a decent digital hotair rework station.. uhh (yikes!) I have tried a few Cherry MX switches and may start with a QSR.  I'm a Cherry MX brown switch kind of person

[DALExSNAIL]

I would buy the cooler master tester so you can see if you
like topre as well.

[rowdy]

Hello, and thank you!  My researches have led me as far as finding a decent digital hotair rework station.. uhh (yikes!) I have tried a few Cherry MX switches and may start with a QSR.  I'm a Cherry MX brown switch kind of person

MX brown is a common place to start.  I nearly did, but was talked into MX blue instead.  Actually I switched in my first modern mech keyboard this morning - Ducky Shine 1 with the aforementioned MX blue and red LEDs, although I have the JTK debut set WoB) on it atm.  Still works like a charm!

[jerue]

Hi!

CM Storm stuff is pretty good from my experience...I should have given my stealth with MX Greens more love when I had it.

Welcome, now get clacking!

[xtrafrood]

Hi!

CM Storm stuff is pretty good from my experience...I should have given my stealth with MX Greens more love when I had it.

Welcome, now get clacking!

Hello, and thank you!  My researches have led me as far as finding a decent digital hotair rework station.. uhh (yikes!) I have tried a few Cherry MX switches and may start with a QSR.  I'm a Cherry MX brown switch kind of person

MX brown is a common place to start.  I nearly did, but was talked into MX blue instead.  Actually I switched in my first modern mech keyboard this morning - Ducky Shine 1 with the aforementioned MX blue and red LEDs, although I have the JTK debut set WoB) on it atm.  Still works like a charm!

I must confess I've had my eyes on Ducky's G2 PBT for a few months now!  Hehe clacking, thinking about the mechanical make-up of Topre switches makes my eye twitch.   

[rowdy]

Hi!

CM Storm stuff is pretty good from my experience...I should have given my stealth with MX Greens more love when I had it.

Welcome, now get clacking!

Hello, and thank you!  My researches have led me as far as finding a decent digital hotair rework station.. uhh (yikes!) I have tried a few Cherry MX switches and may start with a QSR.  I'm a Cherry MX brown switch kind of person

MX brown is a common place to start.  I nearly did, but was talked into MX blue instead.  Actually I switched in my first modern mech keyboard this morning - Ducky Shine 1 with the aforementioned MX blue and red LEDs, although I have the JTK debut set WoB) on it atm.  Still works like a charm!

I must confess I've had my eyes on Ducky's G2 PBT for a few months now!  Hehe clacking, thinking about the mechanical make-up of Topre switches makes my eye twitch.   

Just as long as you don't start contemplating those nice little buckling springs too

[jerue]

thinking about the mechanical make-up of Topre switches makes my eye twitch.   

you take that back you

[xtrafrood]

If I don't will you thock me? 

[jerue]

If I don't will you thock me? 

[xtrafrood]

Hahaha, omg that image  ) 

I may buy a CM switch tester just to be sure 

[jerue]

Hahaha, omg that image  ) 

I may buy a CM switch tester just to be sure

or just go for it, and save yourself $$$ in the future

[iLLucionist]

Browns are a safe way to start.

Might I suggest some topre-love? The HHKB Pro 2 and the Realforce 87U / 104U are awesome boards. Topre-switch is like in-between rubberdomes and mechanical keyboards. They use a spring as well as rubber. They feel very crisp and tactily and not mushy at all. And they make the very satisfying "thock"-sound when pressed. Mmm..

[xtrafrood]

Browns are a safe way to start.

Might I suggest some topre-love? The HHKB Pro 2 and the Realforce 87U / 104U are awesome boards. Topre-switch is like in-between rubberdomes and mechanical keyboards. They use a spring as well as rubber. They feel very crisp and tactily and not mushy at all. And they make the very satisfying "thock"-sound when pressed. Mmm..

I've had my eye on the NovaTouch TKL off and on throughout my searches. I need at least 87 keys and Cherry MX compatible stems. I'm just wondering how the rubber holds up to Florida heat/humidity.

[iLLucionist]

Browns are a safe way to start.

Might I suggest some topre-love? The HHKB Pro 2 and the Realforce 87U / 104U are awesome boards. Topre-switch is like in-between rubberdomes and mechanical keyboards. They use a spring as well as rubber. They feel very crisp and tactily and not mushy at all. And they make the very satisfying "thock"-sound when pressed. Mmm..

I've had my eye on the NovaTouch TKL off and on throughout my searches. I need at least 87 keys and Cherry MX compatible stems. I'm just wondering how the rubber holds up to Florida heat/humidity.

That's really good question. I've looked on the box of my HHKB Pro 2 and my Realforce 87U but I could not find the operating range. In the Netherlands (or EU), the 'operating range' (temperature and humidity rangers) must be specified by law, but they are nowhere to be found.

I do not know what kind of rubber they use for Topre switches, but I could imagine that the plasticizers evaporate more easily under higher heat and thus that the Topre becomes stiff more quickly than operating under lower temperatures.

As for humidity, I think the electronics can handle that. I live in an area where is really humid in the autumn (sometimes even 75% percent in my house, that's why I now have a dehumidifier in my home) and I never experienced any issues with my HHKB.

I'm not an expert on the physics, but I could reason that the springs - which are aluminum I guess - could rust more easily in very humid environments of MX switches (depending on what is used to make them 'stainless', if they are) but less so for Topre, because the springs are covered (basically isolated) from direct contact with the air by the rubber.

[xtrafrood]

Browns are a safe way to start.

Might I suggest some topre-love? The HHKB Pro 2 and the Realforce 87U / 104U are awesome boards. Topre-switch is like in-between rubberdomes and mechanical keyboards. They use a spring as well as rubber. They feel very crisp and tactily and not mushy at all. And they make the very satisfying "thock"-sound when pressed. Mmm..

I've had my eye on the NovaTouch TKL off and on throughout my searches. I need at least 87 keys and Cherry MX compatible stems. I'm just wondering how the rubber holds up to Florida heat/humidity.

That's really good question. I've looked on the box of my HHKB Pro 2 and my Realforce 87U but I could not find the operating range. In the Netherlands (or EU), the 'operating range' (temperature and humidity rangers) must be specified by law, but they are nowhere to be found.

I do not know what kind of rubber they use for Topre switches, but I could imagine that the plasticizers evaporate more easily under higher heat and thus that the Topre becomes stiff more quickly than operating under lower temperatures.

As for humidity, I think the electronics can handle that. I live in an area where is really humid in the autumn (sometimes even 75% percent in my house, that's why I now have a dehumidifier in my home) and I never experienced any issues with my HHKB.

I'm not an expert on the physics, but I could reason that the springs - which are aluminum I guess - could rust more easily in very humid environments of MX switches (depending on what is used to make them 'stainless', if they are) but less so for Topre, because the springs are covered (basically isolated) from direct contact with the air by the rubber.

I couldn't find any heat tolerance information either. I assume the membrane is silicon. Silicon temperature tolerance is -55 °C to +300 °C (wiki page). I see your point about the springs. However, I use and store my equipment in an air conditioned house. I also use damp rid in every room just to be extra safe. If silicon then I see no reason not to buy topre. I also see a 60 Million keystroke life cycle for NovaTouch. 10 Million more than Cherry? For Real?

[iLLucionist]

I couldn't find any heat tolerance information either. I assume the membrane is silicon. Silicon temperature tolerance is -55 °C to +300 °C (wiki page). I see your point about the springs. However, I use and store my equipment in an air conditioned house. I also use damp rid in every room just to be extra safe. If silicon then I see no reason not to buy topre. I also see a 60 Million keystroke life cycle for NovaTouch. 10 Million more than Cherry? For Real?

I wouldn't really take the keystrokes advertised as a quality indicator. Somebody here did some calculations and with most of those numbers it will last till you are 400 years old, as a figure of speech. And the weird thing is, sometimes manufacturers give different numbers for the same switch.. I've never understood that.

The nova touch isn't a bad board, but some people have mixed feelings toward it. If I remember correctly, it is compatible with MX cherry key caps, so you can fit any aftermarket key cap set, which is difficult to do with Topre as there are almost no key cap sets available and the company producing the Topre switch doesn't manufacture sets at the moment at least.

The best quality for a Topre is either RealForce or HHKB. But yeah, they are also relatively expensive. But they are really really good. You could also look at the Leopoldo F660C, which also features Topre switches with nice key caps.

[xtrafrood]

Oh I see, the 60 million life cycles of the switch will vary like anything else manufactured for that price range. I keep coming back to the NovaTouch because I need that 87 key layout (plus cherry mx compatibility). Call me a traditionalist if you want, although I'll probably try a ErgoDox or ErgoDox Infinity in the future. If you read this thread and know of a manufacturing defect of the NovaTouch or something like that I would love to hear it. Thank you all, lots of stuff to consider.

[rowdy]

Hahaha, omg that image  ) 

I may buy a CM switch tester just to be sure 

They are on Massdrop atm: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/cooler-master-switch-testerv2?mode=guest_open

[xtrafrood]

Hahaha, omg that image  ) 

I may buy a CM switch tester just to be sure 

They are on Massdrop atm: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/cooler-master-switch-testerv2?mode=guest_open

Thank you for letting me know. I think I'll wait and research my options more. Topre was off the table for me until recently. I know Cooler Master sells them directly from the site but I may wait longer and go for a Ducky Realforce 104UB. 

[livingspeedbump]

Homework done. Buy alps.

Buy Topre.

[xtrafrood]

Homework done. Buy alps.

Buy Topre.