Make a prototype for my next split keyboard

[Heliobb]

Hello

I want to start a new project. I've saw this three one, that I really like.

• Shergo v1.0
• atreux+dox
• SchmergoDox. Love specially this one

I would like to unsolder on the keyboard I've bought all the switches to start making my prototype with cardboard. Like Shergo v1.0.

Because I'm writing very often accent I need a caps with ` and ~ not mapped to the same one as Esc. I'm quite lost with the layers for the moment. I'm working all the day on vim for programming, so I need easy access to punctuation.

For the moment I have a G80-3000 with blacks. I would like to know if I can keep the usb part or if it's a pain and it's better to grab a teensy ? Any tips to know for unsoldering that switches? It seems that they have a small black plastic part to lock them to the pcb before soldering ? Maybe I'm wrong.

[Melvang]

About the only part of this I can answer to is the desoldering of the switches.  Those are PCB mount.  You can tell by the two plastic pins on either side of the center pin.  They don't lock, but are a tight fit.

Now for the actual desoldering, head over to www.geekhackers.org and get an Edsyn Soldapult.  Short of a good dedicated desoldering iron, these things are worth their weigh in gold.

Just heat the pad with your iron, suck the solder, and pull the switches.  Now keep in mind that you have to desolder all 4 pads, these have in switch diodes it looks like.  One other suggestion, go through each pad, and add leaded solder before you desolder.  For me, this makes a world of difference, but I have just gotten a decent temp controlled iron.  My previous iron was fixed temp, variable wattage.

For youtube videos, look up videos by WhiteFireDragon.

[suicidal_orange]

You could reuse the USB part (controller) but you'll have to map out which keys are connected to which other keys and then where on the white ribbon cables they connect to the controller.  Your custom board will have to be wired up in the same way as the original otherwise your keys will produce the wrong letters!

From looking at your pics it's a single sided board so quite easy to map out, but another thing to consider is that there don't appear to be any diodes on that board (I think they are in-switch jumper wires looking how some of them connect) so the controller is probably only good for two key roll over - not good if you're hoping to use it for gaming or properly fast typing as only two keys will register at once.

Overall I think you'd be better off with a Teensy unless I'm wrong and there are diodes, in which case take on the challenge and make it work

[Findecanor]

There are cheaper "solder suckers" available, but the Soldapult looks bigger and better than the cheap one I have been using.
If you do desolder a alot, do be prepared that you may ruin your G80-3000 PCB... The solder pads lift off easily.

For the moment I have a G80-3000 with blacks. I would like to know if I can keep the usb part or if it's a pain and it's better to grab a teensy ?

You mean the controller board? No, I would suggest leaving it. You can't program it in any way and you would be restricted to the matrix that the G80-3000 has. You could add diodes, but you would not get NKRO by doing it.
With the Teensy 2.0 which you load your own version of the firmware to, you could make a simple matrix that fits your layout better.

To make the keyboard truly split, there are three major options:

• Make each half its own keyboard, with a separate controller in each. This does work with most operating systems. You would need an additional USB cable to the host, of course. Other drawbacks are that you would have to program each controller individually and you can't use Fn layers that span both hands - you would need a Fn key on each half and that one would affect only that half.
• Let the matrix span both keyboards, with a thick/wide cable between them. If you choose this option then you would want to design the matrix so that each hand has its own sub-matrix that is as close as possible to a square - this minimizes the number of data lines you would need in the cable. The Goldtouch is designed this way.
• Use an I/O expander in one half. The controller in the other half talks to it over a serial line. This is what the ErgoDox has. If you use the same I/O expander as ErgoDox then you could use an ErgoDox firmware as a starting point.

• SchmergoDox. Love specially this one

Thanks! It is only an ErgoDox with custom plates and some mods.

[Heliobb]

Now for the actual desoldering, head over to www.geekhackers.org and get an Edsyn Soldapult.  Short of a good dedicated desoldering iron, these things are worth their weigh in gold.
(...)
For youtube videos, look up videos by WhiteFireDragon.

Thanks for the tips and the solder pump. Will take a look. Probably try to find something closer to me. I'm in France.

You could reuse the USB part (controller) but you'll have to map out which keys are connected to which other keys and then where on the white ribbon cables they connect to the controller.  Your custom board will have to be wired up in the same way as the original otherwise your keys will produce the wrong letters!

From looking at your pics it's a single sided board so quite easy to map out, but another thing to consider is that there don't appear to be any diodes on that board (I think they are in-switch jumper wires looking how some of them connect) so the controller is probably only good for two key roll over - not good if you're hoping to use it for gaming or properly fast typing as only two keys will register at once.

Overall I think you'd be better off with a Teensy unless I'm wrong and there are diodes, in which case take on the challenge and make it work

You right. I will probably use a teensy.

There are cheaper "solder suckers" available, but the Soldapult looks bigger and better than the cheap one I have been using.
If you do desolder a alot, do be prepared that you may ruin your G80-3000 PCB... The solder pads lift off easily.

That's ok for that

To make the keyboard truly split, there are three major options:

• Make each half its own keyboard, with a separate controller in each. This does work with most operating systems. You would need an additional USB cable to the host, of course. Other drawbacks are that you would have to program each controller individually and you can't use Fn layers that span both hands - you would need a Fn key on each half and that one would affect only that half.
• Let the matrix span both keyboards, with a thick/wide cable between them. If you choose this option then you would want to design the matrix so that each hand has its own sub-matrix that is as close as possible to a square - this minimizes the number of data lines you would need in the cable. The Goldtouch is designed this way.
• Use an I/O expander in one half. The controller in the other half talks to it over a serial line. This is what the ErgoDox has. If you use the same I/O expander as ErgoDox then you could use an ErgoDox firmware as a starting point.

Don't know which one is the best. I'm working essentially on osx and linux. Want to make something simple... Will think about it.

Will order the solder pump to start.

[Oobly]

If you don't need to unplug the cable, you can use a ribbon cable between the halves and then you don't have to fiddle with IO expanders and I2C code. This is the easiest option and what I'd recommend for a prototype.

I used a 10-wire cable to connect the halves of my ergonomic board, but added some "header pin" connectors and they turned out to be a problem, since they don't "latch" in, they work loose a little too easily.

If you do try to use an IO expander to reduce the number of wires between the halves, I recommend using RJ11 / RJ12 connectors and cables, since it's very robust, hard-wearing, clips into place solidly and is easy to find. If you go this route you can use a Teensy 2.0, MCP23018 and the ErgoDox firmware as a starting point.

With the Teensy you have a lot of options regarding firmware, the TMK firmware is probably the best if you're not using an IO expander. It can be adapted easily for your own custom layout.

[Heliobb]

Any idea for a good solder pump I can buy in Europe. I see sooo many cheap one from china sold from UK or Germany. But they are ****. Geekhacker shop is quite far for a solder pump...

[suicidal_orange]

Not lubed like the GH version but I bet it's still better than a cheap one - try replacing the uk with your country code as Farnell are international

http://uk.farnell.com/edsyn/ds017/desoldering-gun-standard/dp/871345

[Heliobb]

Thanks. Looks perfect.

[Heliobb]

So I unsoldered everything I need.



Try to make few layout based on atreus and ergox but I'm completely lost with the punctuations and thumb keys. I'm developer and vim user. I need to have access to the `~ key and also escape key.



I read ideas from others [1] [2] [3] but I'm still stuck.

I will make keyboard layouts with different versions to get feedbacks.

[Heliobb]

Here is the first test for the layout.



Really interested about your feedbacks.

[profet]

As a developer... not having easy access to the '=' key on the default layer would make the keyboard annoying.

As a normal human being... not having access to the space bar would make the keyboard useless.

[Heliobb]

Ahah thanks profet.

New layout : http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/9029664582e7a8b2abec



What's your recommendation for the thumb keys?

[jeffgran]

As a developer... not having easy access to the '=' key on the default layer would make the keyboard annoying.

I disagree -- I think having the '=' key way up in the top right of the keyboard is annoying. I'd rather have it right on the home row on another layer, assuming the layer shift key is easy to reach somewhere. To each his own of course, just voicing a dissent.

[jeffgran]

What's your recommendation for the thumb keys?

If you're a vim user, I'd recommend putting the ESC key on one of the thumbs. For me, one of the main reasons I went with emacs over vim when I was a fledgling developer was the thought of "you mean I have to reach up to that tiny (on my MBP at least) escape key way up in the top left corner every 2 seconds? you gotta be kidding me". My thought on thumb keys is that they should be one of two things:

* something you slam down on all the time, like space bar, enter, tab, or in this case escape. "Enter" especially, for programmers, is very satisfying to bang on with your thumb to execute a command.
* something you hold down all the time, like ctrl/layer/shift/alt

[kurplop]

What's your recommendation for the thumb keys?

 My thought on thumb keys is that they should be one of two things:

* something you slam down on all the time, like space bar, enter, tab, or in this case escape. "Enter" especially, for programmers, is very satisfying to bang on with your thumb to execute a command.
* something you hold down all the time, like ctrl/layer/shift/alt

I'm kurplop, and I approve of this message.

[Heliobb]

Thanks for the feedbacks. Here is a new layout. Not sure at all

Escape key... lost on the desktop.

I've added to a layer an easy access to the equal (under 'b'). For the escape key in vim : In insert mode I have a shortcut "jj" to exit insert mode, or "jk" to leave insert mode and save. So I'm not using very often the escape key except in visual mode. I should do a vim crocket to see what I'm using.
I don't know where to put the escape key. Maybe I have to stop trying to put some angle on my thumb keys to better organise them

[profet]

Probably not a big deal to very many people...

but as a user of Visual Studio and Resharper, Ctrl+Space and Alt+Enter are very common key combos (I use them on almost every line of new code). So would need to swap Ctrl and Alt on your layout.

[Heliobb]

I also forget the meta/win/cmd key. For cmd+tab.



A new version

Thumb keys still looks strange for me.

[jeffgran]

Thumb keys still looks strange for me.

They will be hard to press too. It's not a natural motion for your thumb to reach over one key and press down on another, like it is for your fingers, because the thumb bends in a different direction (sideways/inwards, instead of downwards).

If you want 3-4 thumb keys you probably want the arc arrangement like the keyboardio (http://shop.keyboard.io/) or bison board (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54998.0). If you want more than 4 per thumb, you're probably going to have to make the thumb cluster angled, which will complicate the design a lot.

[Heliobb]

Thanks again Jeff for the help.

I just see this Ergodox layout

Maybe to gain more access to function keys I will have to forget about having punctuation on my keyboard and put it on an other layout like on this ergodox layout. But before I will make a prototype with my layout on a cardboard to see how it is. If it's fail I will try with less keys an more layout.

Here is the new layout:

[Heliobb]

I spent some times this morning to put this layer on a cardboard. Not a success but it's good I found few mistakes.

Here is some pictures



I didn't set the 6 keys on the right hands. Not enough room on the card board. Also I forget keycaps that `~ and |\ they probably go on the left hand over shift and tab.

It seems it's a big layout but no keys seems to be unreachable. I think on the right hand backspace and space are not well placed. I will probably do too much mistakes when typing. I need to find an other way of put this key on the layout.

Left hand :



Right hand



On both hand the thumb cluster is probably to high. Don't know.. :/

Any feedbacks ? Big mistakes you see ?

Next step will be to fix this layout and do a laser cut on a wood plate (or by hand with a dremel) and try the layout with all the switches at the right place.

[kurplop]

I like where you're going with your layout. You will know better than anyone where to put the key designations based on your specific usage and comfort. I don't like using my outside fingers any more than necessary and found eliminating the outside columns works well for me.  I would add a bottom row, continuing the arc, and embed the arrows in IJKL on layer1 to make up for the lost spaces. You will want L1 and L2 higher than other thumb caps if you're using your thumbs to strike them.

If you intend on tenting the halves, you might do your placement tests tented as well. Tenting and toe in angles can affect the feel of the overall layout.

It's important to get the thumb arc right, both the radius and the placement. The thumb keys are probably the least forgiving. They look pretty good to me but it depends on hand size, flexibility, how bend you keep your fingers, etc.

Keep up the good work.

[Heliobb]

Thanks for the feedbacks.

What do you mean when you say

If you intend on tenting the halves, you might do your placement tests tented as well. Tenting and toe in angles can affect the feel of the overall layout.

[kurplop]

Thanks for the feedbacks.

What do you mean when you say

If you intend on tenting the halves, you might do your placement tests tented as well. Tenting and toe in angles can affect the feel of the overall layout.

I can think of 3 advantages by using a 2 part keyboard; the flexibility of separating them to a more comfortable width, tenting the inside edges up to reduce wrist pronation and skewing the columns to reduce lunar deviation.  If you intend to implement any of those features, you won't get an accurate assessment of the proper positioning of the keys. Test tenting set up can be as simple as placing an object under your mockup keyboard center to get a feel at different typing angles.

The funny thing about keyboard ergonomics is that most people may not even benefit by the different placements and angles ("what's the big deal").   For those of us who do, the improvements can make a critical difference in the amount of time we can comfortably work. All I'm suggesting is that if you're going to all this trouble making a custom split keyboard, you owe it to yourself to consider every option.

[Heliobb]

Never thought about angles. Will give a shot.

[Heliobb]

I'm trying a new layout. I didn't move the arrow keys on a new layout. I'm using a lot them on vim (buffer next, previous, list, close).

The layout is now not balanced. Don't know if it's problem. Will probably know when I will try it.




I will soon be able to user a laser cut machine and will love to cut a test plate. I went to http://builder.swillkb.com/ with my rawjson but it returns me this.



Any ideas ?

Is it enough for the laser cut? I din't make the outline of each part of the keyboard.

[Input Nirvana]

Nice.


Feel free to document your own questions to yourself in this thread. It can bring people out of the woodwork with ideas and processes.

[Heliobb]

Thanks Input Nirvana.

I love this community. On the post above I had some issues with swillkb builder. But swill fixed it !. So I was able to put my layout into dxf file. Fantastic !

I then jump to FreeCad then LibreCad. Was quite painfull the first minutes but I've try to cut a little bit of each part of the case. If you have any good resources, threads about making this share them. I would like to lasercut it. But....

..the result is ugly.

DFX file : SVG file



I didn't spent a lot of time working on it but I should copy other keyboard case design. I hate mine for the moment. I should make one and then do a horizontal symmetric copy.

I was wondering if I can do only for beginning only one layer like on this on the top for the Atreus ? I also love the design.



Then but some long screws to raise it from the table.



So next step with your advices is to finish the case, finish the layout also. I would like then make probably a second prototype on a cardboard or directly lasercut on thin wood plate.

[Heliobb]

I should probably work on the layout first on keyboard-layout. Like for those layouts

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/samples/pkb.json

or



this one by rsac