Finally got my 1390131 Model M

[GenEric35]

Woot, it finally got here, yesterday, and it works, 1986 Model M 1390131, here's a picture of it

It is very heavy compared to my Unicomp Customizer, and the keys sit in place tighter. The keys surface might be a bit smaller, dosen't realy show but it's the impression it gives when typing on them.

One thing that i really didn't expect is the tension in the springs feel much lighter than the Customizer, the sound of the key is very different from the Customizer as well.
The Customizer makes a lound 'toc!' when the spring buckles, and almost no spring noise when the key is released, and the sound is almost the same for all keys.
The 1390131 has a much lighter 'tic' when the spring buckles, but, the sound of the spring when releasing the key is omnipresent and louder than the Customizer.

Because of the Customizer, I'm use to the keys buckling exactly midway through the keypress, but on this 1390131, all keys are different and feel much lighter, almost mushy.
Currently i'm making alot more typos than usualy because of this.
Because right now I think i might have to stick to the Customizer for daily typing, or when doing things that can't have keys fail to register.
Here is a better description of what i think is happening, some of the keys buckle only at the very last minute just before the key bottoms out.
The problematic keys are all on the bottom row, the letters x c v b and especially the comma key

Would this be related to the springs just having had alot of use, and should I consider carefully swapping springs with the ones from the numpad?

I think this board is telling me it would prefer to be used only once in a while rather than a 'daily typer'.

I sure could use some opinions since many people here have used alot of keyboards like this one.

thanks in advance

EDIT: It turns out the board was missing too much rivets which caused the spongy and uneven keys, i've followed mods from this site(detailed progress in this thread). Now that it's done, I would say that the board is, perfect





replaced rivets








EDIT: It turns out the board was missing too much rivets which caused the spongy and uneven keys, i've followed mods from this site(detailed progress in this thread). Now that it's done, I would say that the board is, perfect

[GenEric35]

First thing to do is get a nutdriver and open her up (see the mods section, in the Ultimate M Opener I posted lots of links where to get them).  Look for broken rivets.

Could be mushy springs.  It happens.

thanks Ripster, yea missing rivets could actually explain it. I already have a few rachet 7/32 box but they all too wide to fit in the case, looks like i'l need to by an actual nutdriver tomorrow

[GenEric35]

looks like 7/32 isn't the most common size

I went to Canadian Tire and couldn't find anything under 1/4, was looking for a clerk and couldn't find one, so I served myself to their computer terminal they had setup in one of the iles. It turns out it used a IBM terminal keyboardboard, buckling spring, an old silver badge as well, so I had some fun with that for a little while hoping a clerk would show, my goal was to search the terminal for 7/32 but the old scrolling menu interface was not exactly as simple as google

after 5 minutes of computer beeping, a clerk finally show up, "Excuse me? can I help You?"  :smokin:

I told him, I was looking for either a 7/32 nutdriver or something i can fit on my 1/4 rachet, and showed him the back of his own keyboard as example  :laugh:

the problem is the casing of the 7/32 thing cannot be too wide, fits on his because there is no 'well', but not on a regular size model M, and turns out they didn't that model of 7/32, the keys on his keyboard felt like i would have expected, I wouldn't be surprise mine has missing rivets, will stop by Sears tonight see if that something 7/32, or more IMB terminals I can attempt to hack into

[ch_123]

Officially it's a 5.5mm driver, the 7/32 is just a close approximation. You can get 5.5mm drivers off eBay quite cheaply - there's a thread in the eBay section for it.

Definitely sounds like you have a worn out Model M on your hands. I can remember whether Unicomp sell replacement springs or not, might be worth looking into.

[GenEric35]

thanks for the feedback so far

I've got the 7/32 driver and opened the keyboard, at first glance, it shines, it's very clean, but indeed, rivets missing.

I counted 60 potenttial rivets, does that make sense? out of of those 60 'holes', there are 21 rivets left, most of them being close to the sides or under the F1-F12 keys, every other rivet looks like it broke off.

How much missing rivets is too much? and do i have any choice but to do the mod replacing it with screws suggested here ? http://sandy55.fc2web.com/keyboard/repair_model_m.html

Is refurbishing an old board a bad thing? Should I keep it 'authentic'? I have a few other keyboards and mostly bought this one as an 'artifact' to add to my collection? would replacing the plastic rivets with screws change the board?

I also took the reseated the problematic keys but they still require alot of persuasion to buckle when typing, they buckle at the very end, just when the key hits the bottom, should I consider getting a set of new springs like this http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11298/subcatid/0/id/112467 will they fit, and again, will this change the board in a bad way?

What would you do?

Thanks for the advice

-GenEric35

[microsoft windows]

It'll still work fine without all the rivets.

[GenEric35]

Here's the American version of Sandy's Mod.  Go through it and you should have a lot of your questions answered.

But yah, only 21 rivets left is NOT good.  Sometimes a lowly Lexmark is a better deal than a vintage 1390131.

I think it will turn out better than a blue label after all this looks like normal wear, thanks for the detailed guides and tips, makes this a fun project

EDIT: I actually pulled out my lowly Lexmark blue label from the basement, typing on it for now until I'm done restoring that vintage one

[ch_123]

It'll still work fine without all the rivets.

Why do you bother posting stuff that completely ignores the point?

A 'cheat' would be to buy a Lexmark board of reasonably good condition, and swap the internals.

[keyb_gr]

Why do you bother posting stuff that completely ignores the point?

Umm... look up 'troll'?

[ch_123]

I know, but either way it's such a pointless expenditure of effort on his behalf.

[GenEric35]

Why do you bother posting stuff that completely ignores the point?

A 'cheat' would be to buy a Lexmark board of reasonably good condition, and swap the internals.

Yes, I have contacted a few people and swapping the plate with one from the same generation 86-88 is also part of the options, fixing the backplate is also part of the options, note that I didn't pay the max price for this one, and seller offered to refund me 20, which should cover repair costs.

The golden backplate, yellow wiring, small key tops, square badge, black rugged cable, adapter, it's all super clean.

It's a secondary keyboard(actually 5th), and I bought for what it is, an artifact.

[ch_123]

Well, if you get a 1391401, you can throw in the controller, LED board and keyboard assembly into the 1390131 case. You don't need to worry about preserving yellow wires or whatnot. In fact, you could just open up your Lexmark and use that.

[GenEric35]

Well, if you get a 1391401, you can throw in the controller, LED board and keyboard assembly into the 1390131 case. You don't need to worry about preserving yellow wires or whatnot. In fact, you could just open up your Lexmark and use that.

haha, 1390141 maybe depending on the year, thanks for the suggestion, but putting my Lexmark(rubber dome) in the 1390131 would probably be the worst abomination ever. That model of lexmark is nice and quiet, it's got it's uses

Nah, there is a lot of good resources here, swapping would have been easiest and fastest, but I have tools and time, everything is possible

I'll get some live pictures as it goes, might learn a thing or two from it.

cheers

[ch_123]

All the 1391401s are pretty much the same (which in turn are the same as the 1390131s, just with the different labeling). The 'Blue label' thing is completely over-exaggerated. In fact, if I was you, I'd get a 1993 or 1994 1391401, take the top cover off and replace it with that of the 1390131. Then reapply the sticker from the 1390131 over the 1391401's. Bare in mind that Lexmark did in fact make a few 1390131s with drainage channels, so this would be 'historically correct'. You'd also get a better keyboard out of it.

[GenEric35]

so I have started the restoration of this board,

I turned out it had only 10 good rivets left from 60...

looking at the design, 50 missing rivets is enough to make the keypress sluggish

for now I am keeping the springs, and replacing the rivets with a mix of both methods above, nots and bolts for the 3 middle row, and tapped threads for the other rows

i though it was only the rivets, but found out my poor keyboard has a broken leg, the black plastic plate(actuator panel?) , was actually cracked from left to right, all along the home key row, when i say cracked, i mean split, it's almost cracked in half all the way but the part under the numpad has not gave up yet and is still holding the actuator plate together

similarly between each row the plastic is cracked, it has not opened yet can clearly see that it was going to break a part too

I am still using this platic plate for the restoration
*talks to the keyboard "stay with me, don't fall asleep"
after all, 60 bolts could be exactly what it needs, and if i need to replace it, bolts are easy to undo

It should be done early this afternoon and ready for a first test run

if it turns out i have to replace the actuator panel, i might look for another identical used one, or use the one from my blue label, it would suck to break the blue label because it still has all it's rivets, and then will arrise the question about drainage holes, do i cut them off from the actuator plate, or to arrange the back of the 1390131(cut 4 square holes) to make use of the drainage holes, hmm

[ch_123]

Or just use the underside of your Blue label board?

[GenEric35]

Or just use the underside of your Blue label board?

aside from the sticker, and drainage holes, they look identical indeed, but I would have to swap labels :/ i can cut custom screws and tap threads but pulling off stickers, what if it shreds appart in the process

[ch_123]

Yeah, that is a problem alright, but I guess if you do it slowly it will be fine. The old IBM labels look pretty resilient...

[GenEric35]

I think i know how the cracking might have happend, as you're saying, age and brittleness of the plastic plays it's part
 
it could be by typing with missing rivets, i assume when some rivets start falling, it can loosen it and make other rivets likely to pop out when typing

the other possibility is cleaning, i think someone tried to clean between the wells with a finger and towel and forced the wells a part forcing the actuator plate

[Mercen_505]

The 1390131 I used as my daily driver since 1993 or so definitely has lighter springs than my other Ms. I attribute that to the many millions of keystrokes I've subjected it to. It has two broken rivets on the backplate, but I can't tell where they are from pressing the keys.

[GenEric35]

The 1390131 I used as my daily driver since 1993 or so definitely has lighter springs than my other Ms. I attribute that to the many millions of keystrokes I've subjected it to. It has two broken rivets on the backplate, but I can't tell where they are from pressing the keys.

it's good to hear from someone who used the same model for some time

I am keeping the current springs, now i know to expect them to be lighter, thanks the info

I'm almost done tapping the last few holes

@ripster: was there a post where you mentionned that there was some flex as to how much to tighten the bolts?

[microsoft windows]

I had to break some rivets on my Model M to service it, and a few keys make a different sound. But it works and feels fine.

[ch_123]

I am keeping the current springs, now i know to expect them to be lighter, thanks the info

Well, they would have been just as stiff as a regular Model M when they are new. Spring wear has a much more pronounced effect than broken rivets...

[ch_123]

I used a Model M that felt very inconsistent and worn out... popped it open and there wasn't a single absent rivet to be found.

[GenEric35]

I used a Model M that felt very inconsistent and worn out... popped it open and there wasn't a single absent rivet to be found.

 i thought i had 20 left, but ten of them were cracked and had not fell off by themselves(the melted plastic was keeping the head of the rivet glued to the plate as they are not exactly rivets, but more like plastic studs sticking out and melted in place and act as a rivet), i realized this when was using the chisel to remove them, which left me with 8 good ones in the end, 4 of which were next to the + and enter of the numpad

[GenEric35]

I'm impressed it worked at ALL with 8 rivets left.

me too, the bottom row was barely actuating, and when i split the actator panel from the black membrane, i even the bottom part one of the spring 'hammers' that had was sitting outside of the plastic housing, there was wide enough of a gap for it to slip out, got 15 studs in place, i'm about to put the spring assemblies back in

[msiegel]

yikes!

excellent

[GenEric35]

I was worried it would not work,
but in fact, everything works, and works great
the keys that were hesitating now work normally and the key tension even across the board
what a journey it was...
thanks to for the step by step guides
I'll post some new pictures this week!

[GenEric35]

I was worried it would not work,
but in fact, everything works, and works great
the keys that were hesitating now work normally and the key tension even across the board
what a journey it was...
thanks to for the step by step guides
I'll post some new pictures this week!

[msiegel]

yay, well done!
first-time buckling spring surgery is nerve wracking

[ch_123]

Are the springs any stiffer now that you replaced the rivets?

[GenEric35]

Are the springs any stiffer now that you replaced the rivets?

I wouldn't say the springs are stiffer, but they all buckle very early now

it might be stiffer, hard to tell, but it feels tighter because it's now more accurate

so it fixed the buckling problems(back then lots of keys were buckling at the last millimeter before bottoming). Now all the keys register at the exact time of the click, so it's more accurate too.

I think someone in this thread that had his since 1995 says they definitely are lighter than other model M

the click itself is a lot quieter than my customizer, it's like comparing a "tock" to a "tick" which can give the impression that it's lighter, i would have to do a real test with that ripometer

the 'mini gong' on each key is still there, some keys don't have it but id say 8 out of 10 do, i think someone mentioned it was like that by design and Dependant on rivet placement, which seems to be the case, as far as resonance in the plate itself i hear none

[ch_123]

The guy in question said they were lighter because his is well worn. Some people who have had new or mint condition examples claim that they are no different to the later models, except with perhaps slightly better build quality.

[GenEric35]

The guy in question said they were lighter because his is well worn. Some people who have had new or mint condition examples claim that they are no different to the later models, except with perhaps slightly better build quality.

i'll put it to the ripometer test by curiosity, thanks for the info

[ch_123]

I bet the lightness is not consistent... So that rarely used keys like pause/break are noticably stiffer than something like A or E...

[GenEric35]

60-65g

[GenEric35]

nope

[microsoft windows]

I bet the lightness is not consistent... So that rarely used keys like pause/break are noticably stiffer than something like A or E...

I haven't really noticed that on my Model M and it's had over 15 years of very heavy use.

[GenEric35]

hi, just as a follow up, as the final touch, I even the sound with a very thin coat of transparent synthetic grease on one of the sidewall of the key stem, the sidewall that the spring seemed to rub on

the quantity of grease for each key was much less than the 'half grain of rice', no grease can be seen on any of the springs, and the thin coat of grease inside the key stem sidewall is so thin is invisible unless looking very closely with a flashlight, this grease is almost magic, takes nearly nothing to change the sound, and there is no impact on keystroke

this removed the spring ping, mini-gong, and srping rattle sound that some of the keys had, now the sound is even across the board and so is the tension(60-65g)

one tool that i found very useful since starting to work on this keyboard is a headlamp, just a cheap one with white leds and 3 AAA batteries did the job

[ch_123]

I haven't really noticed that on my Model M and it's had over 15 years of very heavy use.

Didn't you say you found it in a skip or something? If so, how do you that it's been heavily used?

[microsoft windows]

I used it before it was thrown out. It was filthy and definitely heavily used. There were others who used it as well.

[GenEric35]

I updated the first post with some pictures of the results of the rivet mod