n-key rollover numpad ?

[gohu]

Hi,

I'm interested in buying a filco tenkeyless. It's not that I really care for the total footprint of the keyboard, but I think that if the home row was closer to my mouse, it would be much more comfortable and quick to alternate between the two.

I still use the numpad occasionally though. So, a tenkeyless with a separate numpad, which I would place on the left, seems ideal to me.
But, not only do I use the numpad for typing numbers, I mostly use it to game. So n-key rollover is very important. Or at least something better than standard 2-key rollover. (4 would be sufficient).

Does something like that exists ?

I did some searches on the forum but didn't find any relevant info on that matter.

Thanks.

[AndrewZorn]

this is pretty much exactly what i was going to do

[Rajagra]

The Realforce 23U, being capacitive in nature, probably supports NKRO, but it is very, very expensive.

My Cherry numpads have pretty bad rollover limits - 3 keys can confuse it.

[Viett]

Another alternative to a separate numpad would be to remap the numpad to left handed lettered keys (WER, SDF, XCV with a modifier, say Caps Lock). I've been doing this with games for a while now, because I've been forced to with a tenkeyless, and I now actually prefer it.

[lowpoly]

The Cherry MX 5700 has full NKRO. However it looks like it needs the G80-5000 to work. It would do nothing when connected directly to a ps/2 port. I didn't try to boot the machine but usually this is not necessary.

[maxlugar]

The Realforce 23U, being capacitive in nature, probably supports NKRO, but it is very, very expensive.

My Cherry numpads have pretty bad rollover limits - 3 keys can confuse it.

I have both the Realforce 23UB and Filco FKB22MB.  They are both USB number pads so they probably don't support NKRO. However, I will test them later this afternoon and let you know.

I also have the USB to ps/2 adapter that came with one of my Filcos.  I'll see if that makes a difference.

[maxlugar]

I have both the Realforce 23UB and Filco FKB22MB.  They are both USB number pads so they probably don't support NKRO. However, I will test them later this afternoon and let you know.

I also have the USB to ps/2 adapter that came with one of my Filcos.  I'll see if that makes a difference.

OK, the Realforce 23UB is 6-key NKRO using the USB interface.  I tried various combinations and 6 numbers consistently registered.

The Filco FKB22MB is 3-key NKRO using the USB interface.  Pressing any more than 3 keys simultaneously will sometimes result in just one character.

I have to shut down and re-boot to test with the ps/2 adapter so I probably won't get to that until this evening.

[gohu]

Thank you all for your answers.

The realforce is too expensive for me.

OK, the Realforce 23UB is 6-key NKRO using the USB interface.  I tried various combinations and 6 numbers consistently registered.

The Filco FKB22MB is 3-key NKRO using the USB interface.  Pressing any more than 3 keys simultaneously will sometimes result in just one character.

I have to shut down and re-boot to test with the ps/2 adapter so I probably won't get to that until this evening.

Thanks a lot for testing !
I think if it is really 3-key RO, it would be enough for me.
Could you test these sets, to be sure (these are probably the only sets of 3 keys that I press simultaneously while gaming) :
56.
54.
560
540
56 Enter
54 Enter
586
584

[maxlugar]

Thank you all for your answers.

The realforce is too expensive for me.



Thanks a lot for testing !
I think if it is really 3-key RO, it would be enough for me.
Could you test these sets, to be sure (these are probably the only sets of 3 keys that I press simultaneously while gaming) :
56.
54.
560
540
56 Enter
54 Enter
586
584

The Filco with Brown Cherries failed on many of those particular combinations using the USB interface.  Here are the results:

56. = 56
54. = 5.4
560 = 06
540 = 54
56 Enter = 56 OK (entered return simultaneously)
54 Enter = 54 OK (entered return simultaneously)
586 = 58
584  = 548

I had slightly better luck with the Realforce 23UB, but not always in the correct order.

Hope that helps.

[maxlugar]

The Filco results don't surprise me but the Realforce keypad couldn't recognize all the 6-key combinations?  That's interesting.  Just because it's a capacitive circuit that other parts of the design may foul up 6-key capability.  ENTER is probably a special case though.

It only has a problem with particular 6-key combinations.

Now, I more curious than ever to try both  the Filco and Realforce using the USB to ps/2 adapter to see if that makes a difference.

[rdjack21]

But just to be precise if it has ANY problems then it is not 6-key.  N-key is the MINIMUM number of keys recognized, not the MAXIMUM.

Not terribly important feature in a numpad but some people here postulated capacitive circuits are inherently nkey.

The issue is the order that they are posted not that they don't post. On Topre boards I have seen where if you use a something flat to test 6 key roll over you will not get the same order every time but all keys will always register.

[maxlugar]

But just to be precise if it has ANY problems then it is not 6-key.  N-key is the MINIMUM number of keys recognized, not the MAXIMUM.

Not terribly important feature in a numpad but some people here postulated capacitive circuits are inherently nkey.

Based on rip's definition of 6-key NKRO, the Topre Realforce 23UB does not qualify as NKRO (nor does the Filco FKB22MB)

I tried connecting the 23UB to the ps/2 port on my docking station using the USB to ps/2 adapter than came with one of my Filco keyboards but the PC did not recognize the keypad.

So maybe you're SOOL

[AndrewZorn]

yeah, but that's just ripster's definition.  it's probably NKRO, or 6 over USB... can't let one bad opinion spoil a product's image.

[AndrewZorn]

my n-level trolling is very high, because the maximum amount i am able to troll is very high

[gohu]

OK, so as there happens to be no perfect solution, I just bought a 104-key filco (from elitekeyboards).
It would have killed me to have a tenkeyless with NKRO where I don't really need it and a numpad without NKRO where I would.
When I have my 104, I'll try to game on standard WASD though. I've always played with the numpad so I really don't like WASD but maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it. I mean, most people use it, can't be that bad.

Thank you all for your very useful answers.

[Rajagra]

I'm not convinced about this.

If the 23U recognises any combinations of 6 keys, then it has NKRO internally.
It seems to be USB only, so it is limited to 6 keys (no modifiers on a numpad!)

I don't think speed is a factor in determining NKRO. Any board can be fooled if you press keys simultaneously. If you press and hold down 6 keys slowly and they appear in the correct order that is a successful test (of NKRO).

[AndrewZorn]

lest youre trolling me, nkey refers to the maximum, just like math.  otherwise, logitech keyboards have 6key rollover, even though you cant do some common combinations.

it is more about preparing for the unexpected, not explicitly being able to do QWYGN+PrintScrn...

[Rajagra]

lest youre trolling me, nkey refers to the maximum, just like math.  otherwise, logitech keyboards have 6key rollover, even though you cant do some common combinations.

it is more about preparing for the unexpected, not explicitly being able to do QWYGN+PrintScrn...

Spot on.

As someone with a degree in maths, the precise meaning of "n-key rollover" seems perfectly clear: able to cope with n keys being held down at once for all values of n.
I.e. not limited at all in how many keys can be held down at once.

But n-key rollover can be absent at any stage. Internally to the keyboard; at the interface protocol; within the application, etc. From the above info it seems the 23U has internal NKRO, making it prepared for the unexpected. Like gaming.