A question to those of you who game on FullSize Keyboards?

[LiquidEvilGaming]

How on earth do your arms and shoulders not hurt using a fullsize board with a mouse?  It's simply the most non ergonomic alien feeling position on earth..

I understand obviously some jobs near require (Well even then i'd rather a TKL/60% with a separate numpad) a full size board....But for gaming...why on earth?  For office tasks i get it since you don't often need to use the mouse and keyboard at the exact same time....But gaming...

How do you even remotely make it comfortable?

[Numpy]

I think it depends on body shape.

I used to game with a full sized keyboard with pretty low sensitivity on an FPS. I never really had any troubles but now that I use a 60% it does feel much more comfortable/natural.

I think it's really whatever you get used to and I can imagine someone who is small or has a short arm span may find it uncomfortable.

Hope this provides some insight

[Bucake]

probably has a lot to what you're used to. i can't remember it being an issue when i was younger, but ever since i switched to 60%, it's impossible for me to game with TKL, let alone full-sized.
some play games while their full-sized keyboard is on their lap, which seems to work out great for them :-)

[Keycap]

I never do gaming with a full-sized board, although I can. I mainly use a QuickFire TK with MX Blues when I'm gaming, but I can recall using a 122-key model M and it wasn't THAT bad. Just not nearly as ergonomic as the TK.

[FoxWolf1]

Depends on body shape and mouse grip.

Personally, even before switching to a trackball, I had no shoulder or arm problems gaming on a full-size keyboard-- but then, I have broad shoulders and use a mouse grip where my arm rarely moves at all. Of course, the tradeoff of that grip is that it's not exactly easy on the wrists, but then, it's also the only grip that feels at all natural to me, so it's what I'd be using regardless of keyboard size.

[kawasaki161]

How do you even remotely make it comfortable?

Plz enjoy game.

I don't know, been using a fullsize for like forever until I recently switched to a Quickfire TK. I can still use the fullsize without it feeling weird.
Maybe because I can't align the left side of my mousepad with the middle of the monitor, because that would make it impossible to use the entire mousepad (big mousepad, CS:GO player here) without having my whole arm laying on it which gets uncomfortable very quickly. Oh yeah, I'm resting my whole arm on my table, not like some peolpe who only have their wrist at the edge of the table.
I also am used to having my arms angled because I've been riding motocross for the majority of my life now, maybe thats another factor.

But, in the end it's all preference blah blub whatever, just go with what you feel comfortable with and what works the best for you. That way you can never go wrong.

[Touch_It]

I've never used anything  besides a full size.  Cant say ive ever had any pain attributed to it.  Maybe because I have wide shoulders?  Might also help that I have a rounded desk so my mouse is actually a little close to me than my keyboard.

[klennkellon]

I didn't have a problem with it until I switched to TKL.

I have a beautiful Model M but I can't stand to game on it, but it's better to type on than lifeless MX Reds.

[chyros]

Fullsize is the only layout that matters IMO . Anything else is just worse.

Sure I could probably do without the numpad if I only ever played games on my computer, but does anyone ever actually ONLY game on their computer?

I use WASD plus a mouse without the slightest discomfort. ****, I played shooters on a ****ing IBM F122 with a mouse and it was still great! If I'd go to a LAN party I'd probably pack the Battleship with me (would also make a great weapon if necessary).

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Fullsize is the only layout that matters IMO . Anything else is just worse.

Sure I could probably do without the numpad if I only ever played games on my computer, but does anyone ever actually ONLY game on their computer?

I use WASD plus a mouse without the slightest discomfort. ****, I played shooters on a ****ing IBM F122 with a mouse and it was still great! If I'd go to a LAN party I'd probably pack the Battleship with me (would also make a great weapon if necessary).

The only time i find myself using a numpad at all is for work when placing large orders....and that dreaded time in April for taxes.   Otherwise i get along perfectly fine with the numberow for my own purposes.  However for people whose jobs more heavily rely on a numpad i totally understand the need and requirement.  That said if i used a Fullsize board for most things when it comes to gaming using the KB and mouse at the same time i have a fairly large shoulder width and i'm not a small guy but using a full size with a mouse literally causes pain.  TKL's are definitely doable but ultimately i prefer 60% boards for such things.

I do however keep a separate numpad handy and attached for the occasions i need it.

[Bucake]

does anyone ever actually ONLY game on their computer?

of course not :-) but i don't really see the use for the numpad, unless you need to input a ton of numbers for work or something.
to me the numpad is just a useless part of a keyboard, really.. because a full-sized keyboard already has arrow keys, and above it the navigation keys. and of course the number row.
personally i quite like how it's done on the IBM F XT, to me it makes a lot of sense to have all navigation keys (including arrow keys) clustered together, and all right next to the enter key (rather than being seperated by some empty space).
not saying i think the F XT is an ideal layout, but i like that part about it. i also happen to like how the F-keys are a cluster on the left side, rather than a long row above the number keys.

edit: i guess what i'm saying is imo TK > TKL > full-sized

[ANightOnCloudNine]

How on earth do your arms and shoulders not hurt using a fullsize board with a mouse?  It's simply the most non ergonomic alien feeling position on earth..

I understand obviously some jobs near require (Well even then i'd rather a TKL/60% with a separate numpad) a full size board....But for gaming...why on earth?  For office tasks i get it since you don't often need to use the mouse and keyboard at the exact same time....But gaming...

How do you even remotely make it comfortable?

i got used to it, now that i have a tenkeyless ill prob have more accurate mouse movement due to less offput of angle for my armswing

[klennkellon]

Fullsize is the only layout that matters IMO . Anything else is just worse.

Sure I could probably do without the numpad if I only ever played games on my computer, but does anyone ever actually ONLY game on their computer?

I use WASD plus a mouse without the slightest discomfort. ****, I played shooters on a ****ing IBM F122 with a mouse and it was still great! If I'd go to a LAN party I'd probably pack the Battleship with me (would also make a great weapon if necessary).

the battleship would probably tear through your bag.

As imposing as the Battleship is, I always thought the Model M looked more elegant.

[user 18]

I end up angling my fullsize board when I use it, and bring the mouse in front of the board. That way I get everything at an appropriate width, but I still have access to the numpad if necessary.

[chyros]

Fullsize is the only layout that matters IMO . Anything else is just worse.

Sure I could probably do without the numpad if I only ever played games on my computer, but does anyone ever actually ONLY game on their computer?

I use WASD plus a mouse without the slightest discomfort. ****, I played shooters on a ****ing IBM F122 with a mouse and it was still great! If I'd go to a LAN party I'd probably pack the Battleship with me (would also make a great weapon if necessary).

the battleship would probably tear through your bag.

As imposing as the Battleship is, I always thought the Model M looked more elegant.

Oh the M is definitely more elegant, that's for sure. And the layout is almost certainly more efficient, especially because I think people are a lot more accustomed to a T nav than a cross nav.

does anyone ever actually ONLY game on their computer?

of course not :-) but i don't really see the use for the numpad, unless you need to input a ton of numbers for work or something.
to me the numpad is just a useless part of a keyboard, really.. because a full-sized keyboard already has arrow keys, and above it the navigation keys. and of course the number row.
personally i quite like how it's done on the IBM F XT, to me it makes a lot of sense to have all navigation keys (including arrow keys) clustered together, and all right next to the enter key (rather than being seperated by some empty space).
not saying i think the F XT is an ideal layout, but i like that part about it. i also happen to like how the F-keys are a cluster on the left side, rather than a long row above the number keys.

edit: i guess what i'm saying is imo TK > TKL > full-sized

Well the F XT doesn't actually have arrow keys as it's a navless layout. I don't mind navless, it's arguably better for me than TKL, but again you have to use a cross nav. Overall I still prefer a fullsize as juggling with num lock is still not as efficient as having the numpad and nav separate in their own dedicated clusters, and a T nav just feels so much more natural to me.

If only Microsoft had stuck arrow down on the 5 key rather than 2 xD .

[Olumin]

Fullsize is the only layout that matters IMO . Anything else is just worse.

Sure I could probably do without the numpad if I only ever played games on my computer, but does anyone ever actually ONLY game on their computer?

I use WASD plus a mouse without the slightest discomfort. ****, I played shooters on a ****ing IBM F122 with a mouse and it was still great! If I'd go to a LAN party I'd probably pack the Battleship with me (would also make a great weapon if necessary).

Everyone who uses a emoji, automatically loses their credibility... OH NO, I did it too!

[y11971alex]

How on earth do your arms and shoulders not hurt using a fullsize board with a mouse?  It's simply the most non ergonomic alien feeling position on earth..

I understand obviously some jobs near require (Well even then i'd rather a TKL/60% with a separate numpad) a full size board....But for gaming...why on earth?  For office tasks i get it since you don't often need to use the mouse and keyboard at the exact same time....But gaming...

How do you even remotely make it comfortable?

It depends on what you play.  I generally don't use my mouse at all for gaming, since it's much quicker for me to pan camera using keyboard shortcuts.  I control movement by the numpad (I am on a Model F) and control camera with QE (pan left and right), RF (pan up and down), and TG (zoom in and out).  WSDX are for attacking.  A for dodge/strafe.  Z for sit down.

TL;DR — both hands on keyboard.

[rowdy]

I used to game exclusively on fullsize keyboards, before I rediscovered mechanical keyboards, and for a little while afterwards.

I had all sorts of shoulder problems.

Now I mostly use TKL or 60% and my shoulders are much happier.

[Nai_Calus]

I game on my F107. The main issue is that Bertha is so wide I had to extend my keyboard tray.

Otherwise, meh. No issues. It'd actually me more comfortable for me if I could move the mouse *further out*. But I have wide shoulders. XD

[trace.]

FeelsBadMan

[chyros]

Yeah, I should add that I've got broad shoulders too.

[carmenohio]

i've gotten used to gaming on a full-sized keyboard, no issues with it.  maybe I just have super long monkey arms.

[Seriously]

Like user 18, some people angle the board. You can see this if you watch some CSGO tournament videos, since they use the numpad for buy binds.

[rurushu]

I game on fullsize, until I got a TKL.

When I game, I would slant the keyboard with the numpad area towards my chest, and use the mouse, but then my keyboard is rarely at the same position, mainly due to prolonged gaming sessions which causes wrist pain or finger strain.

Also, I think it is not that uncommon for people to game on fullsizes, you can see quite alot of Dota2 players or other ESport competitive gamers such as StartCraft II using fullsizes...

[Bucake]

i think CSGO would be better to pick because there'll be a lot more people with low sensitivity who need to do bigger swipes.
but even there i think there are still a lot of full-sized keyboards used. i assume many of them use buy-scripts bound to their numpad-keys.

but clearly everyone has his own style/posture.
if you'd look at videos or images from tournaments or something, you'll see everyone holding their mice differently, their keyboard will be closer or further away from their mouse, some angle their keyboard, some slouch, some sit up straight, etc.

classic image:

[rurushu]

i think CSGO would be better to pick because there'll be a lot more people with low sensitivity who need to do bigger swipes.
but even there i think there are still a lot of full-sized keyboards used. i assume many of them use buy-scripts bound to their numpad-keys.

but clearly everyone has his own style/posture.
if you'd look at videos or images from tournaments or something, you'll see everyone holding their mice differently, their keyboard will be closer or further away from their mouse, some angle their keyboard, some slouch, some sit up straight, etc.

classic image:

Show Image

LOL... that Glaring style... how can he see if there is an enemy outside of his field of view??

[Data]

I dunno, it could be my broad, manly shoulders.   

[ADFX_Pixy]

I actually like gaming with a fullsize keyboard. I prefer having my arms apart when gaming because for me it prevents my shoulders from slouching. I also use my number pad for buy binds in CS:GO. Although my monitor isn't this close, Device from Astralis has a similar setup/posture to me.

[zslane]

I have been using full-sized keyboards with mice since the late 80s. My body is used to it. I've never encountered discomfort due to computer use, which is why I find all the ergonomic claims of smaller layouts specious at best.

Then again, I don't routinely spend 8 hours at a time playing video games either, so who knows what kinds of repetitive stress issues hardcore gamers subject themselves to.

[ThoughtArtist]

I have been using full-sized keyboards with mice since the late 80s. My body is used to it. I've never encountered discomfort due to computer use, which is why I find all the ergonomic claims of smaller layouts specious at best.

Then again, I don't routinely spend 8 hours at a time playing video games either, so who knows what kinds of repetitive stress issues hardcore gamers subject themselves to.

I work on a computer all day and the full-size KB slowly became an issue when alternating between typing and mousing. I would go down to a 60%, but I don't want to lose they keys and I have to do enough KB commands already. There's less angled arm movement and chair adjustment (to center myself in front of board for typing) and it's much healthier for me.

It wasn't until a got a bit older that I started noticing RSI problems with fullsize. If you're still in your 20's then you might not care like how I didn't, or if you don't actually do a lot of mousing then it may not be an issue either.

[zslane]

Maybe I'm a freak of nature, then. I'm going to be 51 in about a month, and I've spent 35 of those years in front of a computer, and most of that time was spent using full sized keyboards and mice. No hint of RSI here.

I'm sure it is an issue for some folks, and for them smaller keyboards may be the best solution. But I don't think that getting older automatically means having to give up using full sized keyboards and mice.

[Tangtawan]

Full Size never bothers me until i started using TKL. Since then, placebo shoulder pain hits me everytime I had to use a full size board.

[rowdy]

Maybe I'm a freak of nature, then. I'm going to be 51 in about a month, and I've spent 35 of those years in front of a computer, and most of that time was spent using full sized keyboards and mice. No hint of RSI here.

I'm sure it is an issue for some folks, and for them smaller keyboards may be the best solution. But I don't think that getting older automatically means having to give up using full sized keyboards and mice.

Not everyone is physically the same.

But I suspect many of those 35 years were spent without a mouse, or maybe using keyboard shortcuts to do mousy things where possible.

[mrbishop]

Fullsize is the only layout that matters IMO . Anything else is just worse.

Sure I could probably do without the numpad if I only ever played games on my computer, but does anyone ever actually ONLY game on their computer?

I use WASD plus a mouse without the slightest discomfort. ****, I played shooters on a ****ing IBM F122 with a mouse and it was still great! If I'd go to a LAN party I'd probably pack the Battleship with me (would also make a great weapon if necessary).

PC Master Race checking in

and yes i only game on my PC. hell i dont even game on my smartphone ..... well i have like 2 times but i hated it like grumpy cat. so yeah pc only, usually full sized keyboard, my wrists are fine. i angle the keyboard about 5-10 degrees. First person shooters mostly.

[chyros]

That's because PCs are the best at everything ^^ .

[mrbishop]

That's because PCs are the best at everything ^^ .

i approve this message

[zslane]

Maybe I'm a freak of nature, then. I'm going to be 51 in about a month, and I've spent 35 of those years in front of a computer, and most of that time was spent using full sized keyboards and mice. No hint of RSI here.

I'm sure it is an issue for some folks, and for them smaller keyboards may be the best solution. But I don't think that getting older automatically means having to give up using full sized keyboards and mice.

Not everyone is physically the same.

But I suspect many of those 35 years were spent without a mouse, or maybe using keyboard shortcuts to do mousy things where possible.

I've been using a mouse with a full-sized keyboard since late 1989 when I began using a Mac IIci and an AEK. I doubt very many RSI sufferers have been using the mouse+full-kbd longer than that, and if they have, it hasn't been for much longer because that combination simply hasn't been around much longer than that.

[dante]

I go back and forth between 60%-75%-100% .......

Sometimes the 100% hurts ... sometimes I'm gaming on 60% and my mouse is exactly where it would be on 100% <-- WTF

[Waateva]

Never gamed on anything but a full size keyboard for all but the last ~4 months, never had any issues before nor do I have any with the 60% I use now. 

[1swt2gs]

I play games that require F1-F12 a lot, so TKL is the smallest I can go.

I definitely prefer TKL/60% at work over full sized board though