My Bear Paws Prefer To Bottom Out - Picking a Cherry MX Switch

[heavyfingers]

Hey guys,

I've been lurking around here for a while because I've wanted to upgrade my keyboard. I finally pulled the trigger on a Vortex Pok3r with Cherry MX Blue switches. After a couple weeks with this thing, I think I need to send it back and change my switches. I'm hoping someone can give me some advice on what Cherry MX switches might be best for me.

First, I really like the Pok3r so I'd like to stick with Cherry MX switches on a 60% board. (I had a HHKB Lite2 before this and I couldn't stand the non-standard keyboard configuration so something like the HHKB Pro2 / Topre is out for me.)

I spend 60% of my time typing long paragraphs, 40% of my time coding, and 0% of my time playing games. I anticipate this mix to stay consistent.

I got the Cherry MX Blue switches because many people said they're great for typing. Even though I am able to make all the noise I want, I've discovered I find the clicky actuation annoying (no offense on anyone who likes it). So I'd like a quiet switch.

Now here's where I have my dilemma. I find that I prefer to bottom out every key as I type. I don't rest my wrists -- they just sort of float in front of the keyboard. I've spent many hours trying to not bottom out and I find that I don't enjoy typing that way. I can do it, but it makes me slow and it makes my hands hurt. I'm a big, strong guy with big bear paws and it's hard for me to be "gentle" on a keyboard. I type about 110wpm (quite fast) if that matters.

Right now I'm flirting with the idea of Cherry MX reds with some good (0.4mm maybe? o-rings). I was going to go with browns but if I'm going to bottom out anyway, I don't see the point of having an actuation feeling.

I know there are other keys that require more force, but I've read they will tire out your hands with a lot of typing and I do a ton of typing.

Anyone have any tips or advice based on what I've described above. Maybe some of you have been in a similar situation and found a great switch. Please give you your best advice!

Thanks!

[HeeCh2ei]

Why you should avoid bottoming out?
MX clears is hard to bottom out due to their different spring.

[klennkellon]

I recommend ALPS if you're going to go for linear switches and don't care too much about cusotm keycaps. Much smoother and better weighted than Cherries.

[Tactile]

If, as you say, you enjoy & would like to stick with the Pok3r, I think Cherry Blacks would be the way to go. They're a little heavier than the Blues you've tried, and linear - no noise or tactile feedback.

I don't understand the effort trying to not bottom out but, if you're worried about damage or premature wear of the keyboard or switches, don't.

[FrostyToast]

Tactility for many isn't about letting them know if they've actuated the key; there are many here who can generally tell where the actuation point is.
Tactility is a matter of feeling more than anything and makes the typing experience more satisfying.

If you want, check out the fc660c as it's a 65% topre keyboard with a layout you might find acceptable. It's also the most well built stock keyboard I have tried.
Like what was said before, green alps are good but it's a little bit difficult to procure the switches and find a keyboard to install then in.
Reds might be good though some people find them light, and more importantly, scratchy. Reds are probably the lowest quality switch Cherry has to offer.
Blacks have decent quality stems but the springs may be a tad heavy.
Though there are boards coming out with Gateron Cherry clone switches that are of much higher quality than Cherry and have mostly any weight you want.

[heavyfingers]

Why you should avoid bottoming out?

Tactility for many isn't about letting them know if they've actuated the key; there are many here who can generally tell where the actuation point is.

Great question / point. I don't know exactly why I made a big effort not to bottom out. I guess I just misunderstood that bottoming out is something to be avoided lol. <-- Newbie issues

If, as you say, you enjoy & would like to stick with the Pok3r, I think Cherry Blacks would be the way to go. They're a little heavier than the Blues you've tried, and linear - no noise or tactile feedback.

Blacks have decent quality stems but the springs may be a tad heavy.

I got the impression from reading some threads and articles that a switch like blacks would wear out my hands after a lot of typing. But logically it seems a heavier switch would be better for me.

[heavyfingers]

The more I think about it, I actually like the tactile feel of my blue switches. I just don't like the clicky-ness. Nor do I like the clack at the bottom.

So I think maybe I should choose between browns and clears. And some o-rings to soften the clack.

[FrostyToast]

The more I think about it, I actually like the tactile feel of my blue switches. I just don't like the clicky-ness. Nor do I like the clack at the bottom.

So I think maybe I should choose between browns and clears. And some o-rings to soften the clack.

I would recommend a board with zeal switches as they have a good weight in between browns and clears which is non fatiguing but just enough to have a good spring to it.
Stock clears might also be good enough for you.

[xtrafrood]

Try some Gateron Clears, there's no way you won't bottom out on those switches

[SpAmRaY]

Try some Gateron Clears, there's no way you won't bottom out on those switches

Stock gateron clears are hardly usable they are way too light.

[FrostyToast]

Try some Gateron Clears, there's no way you won't bottom out on those switches

By that logic you might as well use projector keyboards. Key travel distance of 0 and 0g force.

[xtrafrood]

He or she doesn't rest their hands while typing and wanted a switch that they can bottom out on. Gateron Clears could work for someone with a light touch. /shrug

[1swt2gs]

If you like how the blues feel but just think they are a little light and bottom out all the time, go with Mx greens (heavier version of blues).

[rowdy]

MX greens are like blues, but heavier springs.

MX blacks are the same weight as greens, but linear.

MX clears are tactile, and a little heavier than greens or blacks.  Clears are the only switch I don't bottom out on all the time (only about 95% of the time).

[heavyfingers]

All right I think I'm going to go with clears. I like the idea of having some more resistance, less click, and keeping a tactile bump. I'll look into some of the non-Cherry switches in the future; for now I just want to settle on a good-for-me Cherry switch so I can keep enjoying mechanical typing in the near-term as I figure this all out. Thank you everyone for your input.

[xtrafrood]

All right I think I'm going to go with clears. I like the idea of having some more resistance, less click, and keeping a tactile bump. I'll look into some of the non-Cherry switches in the future; for now I just want to settle on a good-for-me Cherry switch so I can keep enjoying mechanical typing in the near-term as I figure this all out. Thank you everyone for your input.

I re-read your op; you might want to stay away from Gateron Clears like SpamRay and a few others mentioned. They're nearly half the resistance of Cherry MX clears to actuate.

[heavyfingers]

I re-read your op; you might want to stay away from Gateron Clears like SpamRay and a few others mentioned. They're nearly half the resistance of Cherry MX clears to actuate.

Yea, I'm going with the Cherry MX clears and sticking with the Pok3r which I really like. The Cherry MX blues feels incredibly soft so I think adding some resistance will be good.

[daerid]

MX Clears are the way to go (I'm in the same boat: giant hands and can't avoid bottoming out)

*segue*: I think I just realized that having such long fingers has helped me avoid RSI over the years. I've been typing every day for over 20 years (since high school), and the only time my hands have hurt is when I went to the ErgoDox (oh the irony). Having such long fingers helps me reach the keys without moving my wrists/hands/arms. But it does make it damn near impossible to avoid bottoming out.

[eksuen]

I re-read your op; you might want to stay away from Gateron Clears like SpamRay and a few others mentioned. They're nearly half the resistance of Cherry MX clears to actuate.

Yea, I'm going with the Cherry MX clears and sticking with the Pok3r which I really like. The Cherry MX blues feels incredibly soft so I think adding some resistance will be good.

Are you located in CONUS? I have a defunct KBP V60 PCB/plate with MX Clears still in it. I can send it to you if you want a subpar method of taking Clears for a test drive. If you don't have keycaps on hand, I can throw some cheap ones on it.

[heavyfingers]

I re-read your op; you might want to stay away from Gateron Clears like SpamRay and a few others mentioned. They're nearly half the resistance of Cherry MX clears to actuate.

Yea, I'm going with the Cherry MX clears and sticking with the Pok3r which I really like. The Cherry MX blues feels incredibly soft so I think adding some resistance will be good.

Are you located in CONUS? I have a defunct KBP V60 PCB/plate with MX Clears still in it. I can send it to you if you want a subpar method of taking Clears for a test drive. If you don't have keycaps on hand, I can throw some cheap ones on it.

Thanks, that's very nice of you . And, yes, I'm in Chicago. But the Pok3r with clears is on a UPS truck and should be at my door within the next few hours.

[eksuen]

I re-read your op; you might want to stay away from Gateron Clears like SpamRay and a few others mentioned. They're nearly half the resistance of Cherry MX clears to actuate.

Yea, I'm going with the Cherry MX clears and sticking with the Pok3r which I really like. The Cherry MX blues feels incredibly soft so I think adding some resistance will be good.

Are you located in CONUS? I have a defunct KBP V60 PCB/plate with MX Clears still in it. I can send it to you if you want a subpar method of taking Clears for a test drive. If you don't have keycaps on hand, I can throw some cheap ones on it.

Thanks, that's very nice of you . And, yes, I'm in Chicago. But the Pok3r with clears is on a UPS truck and should be at my door within the next few hours.

Ah, okay. No problem. Hope you like them Clears. I thought they were a bit heavy at first, but found them enjoyable to type on after getting use to them.

[heavyfingers]

Got the Pok3r with Cherry MX Clears!

After an hour of heavy typing here's what I can say about clears vs blues:

• Wow that's a lot more resistance than Cherry MX Blue! It's feels pretty good for me however, I can definitely understand why some people might get tired on these switches.
• I don't bottom out on these switches often unless I really make a point to slam a key. There's enough resistance that I naturally stop somewhere after actuation but before the bottom. I don't think I'll need any o-rings on this board at all (at least not for sound).
• The actuation feels nice. I noticed a few missed keys immediately. I really like how the required force is stiffer at first, then falls (seemingly to make sure you don't miss the operating point), and then gets stiff (to slop bottoming out). The feel definitely matches this profile I found online:
  
  
• It's much quieter than blues. I was able to turn my music down haha.

We'll see how my hands feel after a full day on these switches, but so far so good!

Thanks everyone who responded and helped me figure this out. You guys are awesome!