Author Topic: Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS  (Read 10340 times)

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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 17:09:37 »
I am guessing that this isn't the first thread regarding this topic, but considering I have been looking for an ALPS board ever since I got my buckling spring, I would like to bring this up again.  What is the difference between genuine complicated white ALPS and genuine complicated blue ALPS?
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Offline ch_123

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 17:37:29 »
Sixty is sending a Blue Alps board my way, I was sold on the description that it's as light as a Blue Cherry. I suspect the springs might different.

Damn, it's always those springs, innit? =P

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 17:40:08 »
So a white ALPS board would be springier than a blue ALPS board?
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Offline ch_123

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 17:42:22 »
Depends on what you mean by springy - do you mean it in terms of resistance, or do you mean it in terms of bouncy-ness?

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 17:45:07 »
Bouncy-ness, which is bouncy-er?
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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 17:55:41 »
Do you have to get the thread off-topic this soon?  I really want to find out the difference between blue and white alps here...
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Offline ch_123

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 18:17:36 »
Unfortunately as I haven't used either yet, I couldn't tell you. Hopefully someone else will come along soon and answer your question.

I'm also quite curious about this question myself, as they sound like very different switches, yet there's very little on why this is the case.

Offline sixty

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 19:10:13 »
Okay, my experience so far:

the old blue alps (without the logo on the top) feel exactly the same as the very first generation white alps (without a logo on top too).

However, then there is the newer types of white ALPS that is also used in late Focus 2001 boards that do not feel nearly as smooth. I think this is what Sandy meant when he said "once you use original complicated ALPS you will know".

I dunno what else to write here. As with every aLpS related topic there is not really one solution to it. ch_123 should be receiving the blue switch board I sent him sometime this week and hopefully will like them as much as I did.

One thing is for sure: blue alps are good stuff.

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 19:22:48 »
I have a very good sense of humor, I just wanted to know if blue alps are any good.  You can look at my sense of humor by looking at all the crappy computers I have.  I don't have them because they are good, I have them because they are funny looking.  Also, I may be the only person in the world to wire up his computer lab to Ethernet using a remote controlled car.

In other words, I appreciate your humor.  Keep right on humoring.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 December 2009, 19:27:19 by Computer-Lab in Basement »
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Offline ricercar

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 19:38:33 »
That's cold.
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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 19:51:15 »
I didn't mean to offend anyone.  Are my posts that annoying sometimes?
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Offline PRISONER 24601

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 07 December 2009, 23:03:14 »
i don't know about the dutch, but i love those butter cookies. or is that the danish? are dutch danish? denmark isn't amsterdam, is it? but that's in holland. wait.

europe is complicated
like white alps!
which are in switzerland right?
dammit.
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Offline chimera15

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 00:14:28 »
Quote from: sixty;139967
Okay, my experience so far:

the old blue alps (without the logo on the top) feel exactly the same as the very first generation white alps (without a logo on top too).

However, then there is the newer types of white ALPS that is also used in late Focus 2001 boards that do not feel nearly as smooth. I think this is what Sandy meant when he said "once you use original complicated ALPS you will know".

I dunno what else to write here. As with every aLpS related topic there is not really one solution to it. ch_123 should be receiving the blue switch board I sent him sometime this week and hopefully will like them as much as I did.

One thing is for sure: blue alps are good stuff.


Yes, as I have both these switches.  The blue with no logo, and the focus white complicated with alps logos on top, not to be confused with even later focus boards that used simplified switches where there's a huge difference.  I can tell there is a difference, between real blue and real white, but it's very very subtle.  The blue alps switches seem to be a little stiffer in general imo.  But this can also be effected by the caps.  If there is a difference it's far less than what type of cap the switch has, or how the switch is mounted, that's for sure, and nowhere near the difference between fake and real.

Typically the original blue alps switches come with a cap that has a more rubbery stem and underside than later complicated alps switches which may be constructed entirely different, usually with harder plastic, which may account for a large difference in impression between one or the other.

It would be interesting to run a force test like they have on that one Japanese page with force graphs, on the blue and white real's and see what the exact microscopic difference is.
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 December 2009, 00:23:06 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 00:59:09 »
Quote from: ripster;140028
This still sounds fuzzy to me.  So there may be a difference or may not depending on what keys are mounted on the switch?

Hasn't anyone just taken the switch apart and just looked?  Usually you  can eyeball springs and see different windings and thicknesses.

You know, like this:
Show Image


Alright.  I'll do it.  Even if the springs are the same size though, one of the things that might be effecting it is the quality and properties of the material used, different alloy in the spring, different friction coeficient of the blue vrs white plastic, ect.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 01:14:25 »





No physical difference between them, except the color of the plastics used that I can see.

Just pressing the switch however, the white's click is much louder.  This could be an artifact of the particular switch though.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline msiegel

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 01:23:32 »
hmm, the whites' springs have more windings at their ends.

do the leafs have any circular dimples in them?

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Offline chimera15

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 01:30:05 »
Quote from: msiegel;140034
hmm, the whites' springs have more windings at their ends.

do the leafs have any circular dimples in them?

Hmm, didn't notice that..... that could be true.  I suppose I should take better pictures of them side by side to see with my lightbox and everything.

I didn't notice any dimples.  Where would they be? The tactile springs are the ones with the dimples...

Oh alright. They have dimples at the top, on the neck of the leaf.
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 December 2009, 01:50:39 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 10:09:55 »
I am going to go with a blue ALPS board i think, I found one for pretty cheap.  It is genuine I think.
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Offline chimera15

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 10:24:15 »
Quote from: Computer-Lab in Basement;140098
I am going to go with a blue ALPS board i think, I found one for pretty cheap.  It is genuine I think.

Most blue alps are xt, because the cut off was about the same date they came out with AT computers, I think Northgates were one of the few that had them still, and those go for a mint so good luck with that.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline ch_123

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 10:42:36 »
Sounds like I got myself a bargain!

Offline microsoft windows

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 16:52:20 »
Does anyone here have a detailed close-up of an original white ALPS keyswitch?
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Offline chimera15

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 20:33:43 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;140239
Does anyone here have a detailed close-up of an original white ALPS keyswitch?


Mine weren't good enough? What part do you want?
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline msiegel

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 08 December 2009, 20:45:18 »
Quote from: chimera15;140324
Mine weren't good enough? What part do you want?


here are some clear shots of various switch parts:

http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tech.htm
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/switch.htm


btw, if anyone has CAD files of the Model F barrel & hammer, i'd love copies ;D

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Model F Mod Log * Open Source Generic keyboard controller

Offline chimera15

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 09 December 2009, 01:51:09 »
Quote from: ripster;140333
That 2nd link is a new one to me.

Still couldn't figure out what they are saying about the Blue vs White.  If anybody reads Japanese be sure to chime in.
Here's a translated version.

P.S.  I just got a mint Complicated White ALPS - sure beats the XM simplifieds and Complicated Blacks.
Show Image


They're saying that the holder for the contacts is gray, instead of white with whites...that's the only real difference that page has listed. Also there's no logo on top, that's about it.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline microsoft windows

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 09 December 2009, 08:22:54 »
Thanks for the photos! I can now officially conclude that my Focus FK-9000 has the complicated ALPS. The switches are the exact same except they say "4" on them instead of "0" and "2".

Another funny thing I noticed on my Focus is the fact that all the key switches on the top row (PF11, PF12, Esc, F1-12, Print Screen, etc.) are upside down. I wonder why.

I also found the switches on the lock keys to be very interesting. They are yellow ALPS switches with LEDS. It appears that the LED's are deep down inside the switch but are visible through a red piece of plastic. None of the keys on those switches are double-shot either: they are printed instead. Maybe it's because of the clean plastic part for the indicator light.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 December 2009, 08:38:18 by microsoft windows »
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Offline ch_123

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Blue ALPS vs. White ALPS
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 06 January 2010, 07:15:11 »
Got a White Alps (Original, Genuine Complicated etc) switch which I put into my SGI for the Esc key. Comparing the two, they feel very similar except that the White Alps has a higher resistance for actuation and thus feel more clunky. I'd have to give it to the Blue Alps purely on the basis that it's a lighter switch, but still has enough 'clunk' to make them enjoyable to type on.