Clickless model M spacesaver options

[Fuzzcraft]

New here. A little history. Learned to touch type on a VIC20 / C64, then moved to a 1995 Cherry G81-3000LBU (linear MY), used it for 13 years, worn it out. Now using a good looking but crappy performance Enermax Aurora scissor-type board.

Want:

- tactile, non-click, ergo cherry brown switches
- no numeric pad so I can have kb, mouse and screen lined up
- US layout with classic cursor keyblock, wide shift keys and wide spacebar
- lifetime well over 13 years
- black. Beige keyboards are gross.
- price up to $150

Essentially a clickless IBM model M spacesaver

Sofar my -quite exhaustive- list is as follows:

- Filco FKBN87M/EB Majestouch, Tenkeyless, Tactile Action, US layout

Am I missing something? There's only 1 (as in ONE) manufacturer on the globe offering a keyboard that is to my liking? Am I making too big a deal over the numpad? I'm always bumping my mouse against the 'board, yet I always feel like shifting the 'board an inch to the right. I can't imagine no one has the exact same problem, yet 9 out of 10 'boards sold are 104/105 key. But who am I?

[microsoft windows]

Just as a word of caution about brown Cherry switches' tactility--They have very little and feel more like linear switches. They're still lighter switches and rival any good-quality rubber dome slider.

[elbowglue]

I just modded my g86-62410EUASGSA (again).  Cherry brown switches, compact format, tenkeyless.  I use autohotkey to map the arrow keys correctly.  Types like a champ, great feel to the board.  Only downside is the barekeycaps, which looks a little ugly.  But for the price I paid ($10 plus shipping) it's still hawt.  By the way, I highly recommend cherry brown switch keyboards mounted on PCB, cause it gives you a much better soft landing when bottoming out in comparison to filcos.  Compaq MX 11800 comes to mind, as does the G86-62410EUASGSA, or the G80-3000 from datacal.  Of course the g80-3000 is not tenkeyless.  Oh on the picture below I haven't gotten around to removing the + and Enter on the numpad cause I don't wanna discard the stabilizers yet.

Oh yeah - you can get this keyboard new from dell small business here:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Retail_POS_Keyboards/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=A0471542
Or occasionally on ebay for a better price.

Redkeycap and White keycaps did not come with this keyboard, they were from other keyboards previously.






Here is a pic of my Compaq MX 11800- I swapped the keycaps to black (using the MX8100 as a donor board) because the black keycaps are significantly thicker, resulting in a much better click when typing.  Unfortunatly I couldn't find appropriate sized spacebar and CTRL and ALT keys so it's still partially original. Types awesome too.  I find the trackball and keypad to be annoying in location but it's much less wide than a typical 104 keyboard (about the width of a tenkeyeless)

[itlnstln]

By the way, I highly recommend cherry brown switch keyboards mounted on PCB, cause it gives you a much better soft landing when bottoming out in comparison to filcos.

A man after my own heart.
 
*Sheds tear*

[elbowglue]

A man after my own heart.
 
*Sheds tear*

What can I say I'm a itlnstln fanboy!

[Mental Hobbit]

Essentially a clickless IBM model M spacesaver

Sofar my -quite exhaustive- list is as follows:

- Filco FKBN87M/EB Majestouch, Tenkeyless, Tactile Action, US layout

I think you're getting something wrong here. Key feel of a Model M and Cherry browns is as different as it gets. Buckling springs are about the heaviest switches, browns among the lightest. BS have the strongest tactility of any switch, the tactility of browns is so subtle most people barely feel it. So if you like the feel of a Model M, a board with Cherry browns is the last thing you want.

If you were happy with a G81 for 13 years, you should try some decent rubber domes too. This will give you a much wider range of options, save you a lot of money - and you might actually  like it better than a Filco with browns.

[Fuzzcraft]

Thanks for your comments, everyone.

@elbowglue: I like the idea, but those are huge compared to the Filco. I should have mentioned I prefer it to be compact.

@Mental Hobbit: Very true, and on par with my own experience. My remark about the model M was more about the spacesaver layout than the feel of the keys. I have spent enough time on a BS 'board to know I dislike the tactility and especially the sound. I have always liked the MY weight, but would like the subtle tactility of my current scissor-board. That's how I arrived at the brown cherries.

[elbowglue]

Thanks for your comments, everyone.

@elbowglue: I like the idea, but those are huge compared to the Filco. I should have mentioned I prefer it to be compact.

Took out the tape measure:
Filco tenkeyless: 14inch x 5.5inch
Compaq Mx11800: 16.25inch x 7.5inch
Cherry G86: 14inch x 7.75inch
Filco 104: 17.5inch x 5.5 inch
Topre Realforce 86u 14.25inch x 6.5inch

To get a good mouse position near midline you want a small width (1st number).  
If your depth is too long you'll bump the monitor with the top of Keyboard... I have yet to find any keyboard that are too deep for me.

[HaaTa]

If you were happy with a G81 for 13 years, you should try some decent rubber domes too. This will give you a much wider range of options, save you a lot of money - and you might actually  like it better than a Filco with browns.

Hmm, I like typing on MYs but I absolutely hate typing on rubber domes (even Keytronics bug me).

Topres are good, but wont exactly save you money...

Overall I think MX Browns are a good choice for what you want.

[Fuzzcraft]

I have very little doubt about the brown cherries.

Back to my original question: Is Filco the only manufacturer offering this layout with these switches?

[itlnstln]

I have very little doubt about the brown cherries.
 
Back to my original question: Is Filco the only manufacturer offering this layout with these switches?

Pretty much. The only other option is the Cherry G80-1800, which is not available in the US. It, basically, looks like the MX 11800 in the post above without the trackball. In other words, it's not exactly tenkeyless, but it's a much thinner layout that's close to the same size. Search either GeekHack or Google for the G80-1800HUMUS; you will fall in love, but you need to figure out a way to get it.

[Fuzzcraft]

@elbowglue: I stand corrected. Upon closer inspection, the G86-62410 only seems to be large, but that's probably because its just an ocean of keys, but once customized it could be the ticket, and it would give me quite a few programmable hotkeys that don't get in the way.

BTW, I'm in the Netherlands, I guess I better look for a POS in Germany.

[Half-Saint]

OT: what exactly does tenkeyless mean?

Cheers

[Mental Hobbit]

Tenkeyless = without numeric keypad.

[Fuzzcraft]

Looking around right now for a Cherry G86-61400EU or G86-61410EU. Not much, except full EU retail prices of Eur 150 and up, or German layouts.

I checked that link to Dell.com, but they don't ship to the EU.

[elbowglue]

By the way - you better be careful, I am not sure that just any of the g86 series uses cherry browns.  I know for sure that the g86-62410EUAGSA uses cherry brown switches, but the G86-61400 or the G86-61410 may not.

Where in the EU are you located?  I wonder how much it is to ship from the states to the EU.  I just got a topre realfoce so I may end up selling my g86-62410EUAGSA..

Whats your postal code so I can do estimation of shipping cost?

[itlnstln]

Generally, the G86 series does not use MX switches.  This US-made 'board seems to buck the trend, but the article number is still G80-blah, blah, blah; so take that for what it's worth.

[Fuzzcraft]

I'm located in the Netherlands, postal code 4879 AX.

Early this morning someone on this board offered me an NIB G86-61410, and he made it clear it has "MX brown" switches. Still working out the details. The price is a steal.

The G86 appears to be a series of all kinds of specialty keyboards, but I get the distinct impression that the POS keyboards all have cherry switches.

[elbowglue]

Hm I think shipping from California to you would be $24 for first class mail, $34 for priority for a 3 lb box.  (all in USD).  may take a while too.

[Fuzzcraft]

Thanks for looking it up, but I've already accepted the other gentleman's offer.

[Fuzzcraft]

I just received the Cherry G86-62410, and I'm using it right now, as you could've guessed. It's a big adjustment (not really), but I'll get by ;-) The key feel is great, the action is slightly less tactile than I thought it would be, and very much comparable to my old Cherry G81, so that's not really a bad thing. The keys are indeed brown cherries. The cursor keys will be remapped, as well as the whole right hand part, like elbowglue did.

It strikes me it doens't have physical markers at the F and J keys. I might have to add those somehow. Any ideas for that?

I've yet to try out the software, I can't do that at my workplace.

[HaaTa]

It strikes me it doens't have physical markers at the F and J keys. I might have to add those somehow. Any ideas for that?

As in no indication at all (ie. Model F)?

Or.

Slightly more cupped like my G81-1800?

[itlnstln]

They're more cupped on that 'board.  That's the one thing I don't like on Cherry-made 'boards.  I wish they used the "dots" like they did on the older MX11800s.  I find those with no problem.

[itlnstln]

True.  Personally, I don't like sticking anything to my keyboards or any other electronics, for that matter.

[Fuzzcraft]

They are indeed ever-so-slightly cupped. Undetectable under my bass guitar players' fingertips. Those silicone nubbins must feel awful. I was thinking of actually replacing the keycaps. The "5" key on the numpad has a nub.

Interesting detail: the serial# for this board is 000096... Me is speshul ;-)