Numeric Keypad Recommendations?

[bionicroach]

I'm considering replacing my Das III with either a Filco tenkeyless (if I opt to stick with the tried and true Cherry blues) or possibly a Realforce 87U if I decide to try something different (also depending on whether my current eBay auctions raise enough cash to stave off a serious beat down from the wife unit in the event she notices the Topre price tag).

The main two reasons I want to retire the Das III are (1) that it has developed a highly annoying intermittent problem where the left shift key "forgets" that it's being held down when doing things like selecting multiple lines of text with the arrow keys or page up / down, and (2) I need to do something to change up my mousing position because I'm starting to get occasional pain and stiffness in my right wrist, and I'm hoping centering the keyboard and moving the mouse closer might help.

Unfortunately, as an IT Monkey at a grocery store chain, I do actually use the number pad fairly often for looking up UPC numbers, etc, so I'll most likely have to add on a separate keypad off to the side if I find the number row on the tenkeyless to be too hard to adapt to.

So...my question is, are there any keypads out there that meet the following requirements?

1) $45 USD or less

2) Double-wide ZERO key (I never use the 00 key that the Filco model appears to have in the photos I've seen)

3) "Independent" NumLock operation.  By this, I mean that pressing the NumLock key on the keypad should *NOT* toggle the NumLock status of the main QWERTY keyboard.  So for instance, you should be able to plug the keypad into a laptop and type numbers in *without* turning on the embedded number pad function on the laptop's keyboard.  The last keypad I had (I forget the brand, but I think it was a ThinkPad one) would only type numbers if you turned on NumLock on the laptop, which meant that you then had to turn NumLock OFF again if you wanted to type letters.  This made it almost pointless IMHO, because in that case, you may as well just use the embedded number pad function on the laptop.  I'm hoping this was a quirk and that most keypads *DON'T* work that way.

[bionicroach]

Ah, the Cyberguys!  I'd forgotten about them somehow.

This Kinesis looks like a contender -- Thanks!  I like the fact it has a pretty long cord as well.  I remember looking at a different Kinesis pad a long time ago that was actually macro programmable which was kinda cool, but it was an ergonomic disaster because it was basically just a square grid of keys, more like one of those generic point-of-sale keyboards.

[bionicroach]

:noidea:

Maybe they are for entering a secret code, padlock-style, which if cracked plays back an ASCII movie to a command prompt...?

[trievalot]

i love the 00 key, i just used it then :-)

helps with putting my salary into my tax return (i dont get paid cents )

its actually a very usable keypad......i have a trackball between the 'board and 'pad.

(written on my Filco 87 and keypad.)

[elbowglue]

Hey I think I found the ultimate keypad companion for the HHKB:
http://www.amazon.com/Scorpius-32-mechanical-keyswitch-keypad/dp/B000UKYSFI



"High Quality Mechanical key switch with tactile click sound and touch feeling"
Sounds like a cherry blue or imitation thereof.

Heres the scorpius 22, blue cherry numpad:

http://www.buy.com/prod/ione-qtronix-scorpius-22-mechanical-switch-usb-keypad/q/listingid/18341556/loc/101/205713553.html

Uglier, but cheaper.

[bionicroach]

The 00 isn't nearly as much of a deal-breaker for me as the NumLock behavior.  Can you confirm whether the Filco NumLock operates independently of the main keyboard / laptop?

[Rajagra]

Cherry G84-4700 PS/2 version. It can be switched into a mode where it doesn't emulate the numpad keys. Instead it emulates the numbers above the letter area. Or if you press its own numlock key it will then work as the inverted T arrows and the 6 keys above it. So it totally ignores the PC's numlock status in this mode.

Only the PS/2 version can do this, the USB version just works as a normal numpad. Unless you install the Cherry Tools software and program in software macros.

Programming details here.

[EverythingIBM]

Get one of these (IBM-XT on the go!):

ebay link

But I think I'd prefer a classic rubber dome IBM-branded but-not-made-by-IBM pad:

ebay link

[hyperlinked]

(2) I need to do something to change up my mousing position because I'm starting to get occasional pain and stiffness in my right wrist, and I'm hoping centering the keyboard and moving the mouse closer might help.

Have you given thought to trying a trackball? Moving your mouse closer will help with some things, but not necessarily with others and if you need the numpad often enough that you want an external one, that suggests you may end up just developing other bad habits to replace the one you're trying to eliminate.

Another inexpensive trick you can try to see if a trackball might help is by turning on the option to make your left mouse button sticky click. While that's highly annoying for many things, it does make the job of clicking and dragging a lot easier which is a very tough action for your wrists to carry out; at the same time you have to put downward pressure, tighten your grip on the mouse, and move it with precision to where you want the pointer to go.

You can also try a mousing platform that brings the mouse backwards closer to your body if you want to move the mouse closer.

[trievalot]

The 00 isn't nearly as much of a deal-breaker for me as the NumLock behavior.  Can you confirm whether the Filco NumLock operates independently of the main keyboard / laptop?

Have in front of me a Cherry G80-3600 and filco numpad

4444444

yep.....2 independently behaving numlocks.....

[MsKeyboard]

Bionicroach,
This keypad does not fit your budget request, but it would give you everything else you want, plus programmability.

I use one for both the tenkey functions, as well as all the other commands I use constantly.  Once you get used to the idea of being able to save signatures or code you kind of go nuts figuring out just what to NOT put in it.

Anyway, just thought I would give you other options..........Later...

[Rotsiser Mho]

Bionicroach,
This keypad does not fit your budget request, but it would give you everything else you want, plus programmability.

I use one for both the tenkey functions, as well as all the other commands I use constantly.  Once you get used to the idea of being able to save signatures or code you kind of go nuts figuring out just what to NOT put in it.

Anyway, just thought I would give you other options..........Later...

What kind of switches are in there?

[MsKeyboard]

Cherry MX (black)

[ch_123]

Hey I think I found the ultimate keypad companion for the HHKB:

Epson made a numpad like that except it used Topre switches. Price? $600. No, that's not a typo... that is six followed by two zeroes.

[itlnstln]

At least the Realforce one is only $122.  That one's a bargain AND it has DIP switches.  I'll tell you what they do next week some time.

[ch_123]

I dunno. Paying $122 for 10% of a Realforce 103U when I could buy a NIB Model M Space Saver seems like a bad deal. I guess if you really really need a numpad it could be a consideration.

[MsKeyboard]

when I could buy a NIB Model M Space Saver

Where did you find that? And how many more are there?

[Mental Hobbit]

I dunno. Paying $122 for 10% of a Realforce 103U

Twisted logic.
Realforce 104 key = $230
Realforce 87 key  = $270
So the keypad should be way over $500. $122 is an incredible bargain!

[ch_123]

Where did you find that? And how many more are there?

There's that guy who's been churning them out sans cesse for well over a year (maybe two?) If you're lucky enough you can get them for between $100-150.

Twisted logic.
Realforce 104 key = $230
Realforce 87 key  = $270
So the keypad should be way over $500. $122 is an incredible bargain!

Oh, I know it's twisted logic. But I'm sure you can where I'm coming from - 99% of people don't do 'typing' on a numpad. So paying almost three times the price of a Filco one, or almost four times the price of a cheaper mechanical one is something that only makes sense if you use your numpad more than the rest of your keyboard.

[didjamatic]

Tekgadget KP-701 w/Blue Cherry MX Switches

[itlnstln]

Two things:
 
1) I use my numpad probably more than a lot of members here even type on their regular keyboard
 
B) It matches my HHKB.  Yes, I'm that shallow.
 
It also has some functionality that I find pretty useful, so that adds to the appeal, too.

[MsKeyboard]

I'm still amazed you went tenkeyless.

itlnstln, How have you setup your desk top (layout), and how are the knuckles doing?

[itlnstln]

It's the same as it has been; I'll post some new pics, soon (it's basically like this, just switch the Filco for the HHKB, and you'll get the idea).  I fingered out that my knuckles were stiff due to playing disc golf.

[MsKeyboard]

Don't ya just hate play getting in the way of work!

Glad it wasn't the other way around...........Later...

[didjamatic]

I have the Tekgadget next to a Realforce 87u at work and found that I mostly use the numbers on the 87u.  But if I'm doing a lot, the numpad is absolutely essential.  If you have to enter a ton of IP addresses or do any accounting work, not having a numpad slows you down considerably.  I've never cared to bother with the one built into my tenkeyless boards.

[hyperlinked]

It also has some functionality that I find pretty useful, so that adds to the appeal, too.

Wow, so you bought the model that comes with the wild berries fragrance!

[itlnstln]

Well, lemon fresh, but yeah.

[ricercar]

For consideration: Goldtouch

• Brown Cherries
• $47
• Independent Numlock
• single-wide 0
• single-wide 00
• Additional FN level of functionality
• USB hub (2 ports)

So...my question is, are there any keypads out there that meet the following requirements?

1) $45 USD or less

2) Double-wide ZERO key (I never use the 00 key that the Filco model appears to have in the photos I've seen)

3) "Independent" NumLock operation.

[TexasFlood]

Well, lemon fresh, but yeah.

Lenovo has a USB Thinkpad USB numeric keypad.  I don't have one or have even tried one but was thinking about trying it.  Gets pretty decent reviews on Amazon.  Think I can pick it up for $14-15 new and if so might go for it.  Anybody ever use one?

[TexasFlood]

Regarding the Lenovo I thought this review was interesting.  A driver for a numpad?

Good point, hmm.  Might have to reconsider.  I mean I know it's going to be cheap but I don't need one much so would just be for occasional use.  All the more reason to look at the driver question though.  I don't want to pull it out in a couple of months and waste time ****ing around with a driver.

[Rajagra]

I'm going to be awkward and say this is a fault of the embedded numpads, not of any external numpads. NumLock was never intended for enabling such things, it has a well-defined real purpose. Using it in this alternative way is a clumsy workaround that predictably leads to this problem.

Typematrix does the job properly. Their keyboards have a NumLock that works normally PLUS a "Num" toggle that enables the embedded numpad. Other manufacturers please take note.

[ricercar]

Kinesis Contour/Avantage keyboards also have their own mechanism for an embedded numeric pad. The only thing the normal numlock does is toggle a LED.

[TexasFlood]

Regarding the Lenovo I thought this review was interesting.  A driver for a numpad?

Good point, hmm.  Might have to reconsider.  I mean I know it's going to be cheap but I don't need one much so would just be for occasional use.  All the more reason to look at the driver question though.  I don't want to pull it out in a couple of months and waste time ****ing around with a driver.

Actually after reading some of the reviews, seems like it works without the driver, just the num locks on the keyboard and numeric keyboard can't work independently without the driver.  Maybe you knew that, just saying I'm not sure this is a big deal for me.  Driver version 6.0.0.1 supports Windows XP, Windows Vista and Windows 7.

[itlnstln]

So I got the Realforce numpad in, and I really like it. It has all-45g. switches and feels completely different than the 45g. switches in the HHKB. I can see why people say that the Topre switches feel similar to Cherry Browns. They RF switches are very light and smooth with a slight tactile bump similar to the browns, while the HHKB switches feel heavier and much more tactile (I almost wonder if the HHKB has the 55g switches). I'm kinda jealous of the feel of the switches in the Realforce now; not enough to get a Realforce, but I can see the appeal of the Topres, now. I think if there were an all-45g. RF, it would be tough to say no.
 
Anywho... enough about the key switches, let's talk DIP switches. Here is what they do:
 
DIP1: Off (Default, normal operation); On - Tab = Cut, BS = Copy, Shift = Paste, "=" = BS
 
DIP2: Off (Default, normal operation); On - "00" = "000"
 
DIP3: ? (Something about numlock, but I can't read it)
 
DIP4: ? (I don't know, and I'm not messing with it.)

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I'll get a pic/scan up on Monday. I have a ton of meetings/**** to do*, so I won't be able to get to it today, and I'll be at the beach tomorrow. I don't have buyer's remorse, but I do wish the switches were a little lighter in the HHKB. What it did bring to light was the difference between your experience in the RF and my expericence with the HHKB and why the two didn't seem to even be close.
 
*Yet, I still have time to post here.

[itlnstln]

I will say this, if there is any numpad worth $125, it's this one. I haven't had enough time with it yet to see if it really is worth that much, but the construction and features are certainly put it well above other numpads.  It's got a USB cable you use to power a Weed Eater, it's quite a bit thicker than the one on my HHKB.

[didjamatic]

Here's one

Not sure what swtiches it has but could be ALPS... or not.  My favorite ALPS keyboard is an Ortek (but branded Mandax)