Model M mini numlock

[FourOhFour]

Does anyone know how the numlock key on the model m mini is supposed to work? Once when I tried to activate the built in keypad, it sent the numlock keystroke to the computer... since I'm on a Mac, this acts as clear and cleared the field I was in.

So, when does shift-ScrLk toggle the embedded numpad and when does it send the numlock keystroke?

On an unrelated note... either this keyboard is dropping keystrokes or my PS/2 adapter is.

[ch_123]

I think both issues could be down to a crappy USB adapter.

[FourOhFour]

I don't have a Mac so I don't know whats going on but as far as I know no numlock signal is sent.

And just get a Blue Cube.  Life's too short to worry about $8 dongles.  My dongle is priceless.

Mine is a blue cube. Could be defective... or maybe I screwed something up when replacing the rivets with nuts and bolts... though I'd expect something caused by that would be more consistent.

Hmm... or maybe it's the unpowered hub I'm connected through. Can't connect it directly since it'd block the other USB port which I need for my mouse.

Anyway, wrt numlock... ignore me, false alarm. I just connected the SMK-88 and tried the clear key on it (fn-6) and it didn't clear the field I was in... I don't know what's going on, but it isn't numlock... but the keys are labeled with both the numbers and the arrows and page keys... so it seems to me there would be some way to choose which to use.

[Mnemonix]

Does anyone know how the numlock key on the model m mini is supposed to work?

My Mini sends Numlock when attached directly via PS/2 (no adapter, PC, Linux). This is what I get from xev when pressing Shift+ScrollLock:

Code: [Select]


KeyPress event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2000001,
    root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 59046576, (9,158), root:(1167,460),
    state 0x0, keycode 50 (keysym 0xffe1, Shift_L), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyPress event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2000001,
    root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 59047114, (9,158), root:(1167,460),
    state 0x1, keycode 77 (keysym 0xff7f, Num_Lock), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2000001,
    root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 59047195, (9,158), root:(1167,460),
    state 0x11, keycode 77 (keysym 0xff7f, Num_Lock), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False

KeyRelease event, serial 34, synthetic NO, window 0x2000001,
    root 0x1a7, subw 0x0, time 59047929, (9,158), root:(1167,460),
    state 0x11, keycode 50 (keysym 0xffe1, Shift_L), same_screen YES,
    XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
    XFilterEvent returns: False


Apparently, code 77 is Numlock. Is there anything like xmodmap on OS X that allows you to remap the keys? You could then map key 77 to something else.

[FourOhFour]

OK, now I doubt it's the adapter.

When you do the nut/bolt mod you have to be careful to not tighten the bolts down too hard or you can jam the keys a bit.  You really should never have dropped keystrokes so I would debug that first.  Maybe a loose membrane connection?

I found one of those 6 inch USB extensions, so I have the adapter plugged directly into the computer now, via that. The problem persists.

I'm wondering if it is the keyboard. I noticed that I was dropping the w often in "know", so I tried typing w while holding o and the w isn't detected. If I hit w while holding, say, k the w is detected.

I don't think the keys are jammed... they feel fine, just that sometimes the keystroke doesn't register. W isn't the only key I've noticed it on, just the only time I've been able to reproduce it... but I can't reproduce it reliably except for that w while holding o quirk. Am I just running into the limitations of the matrix layout?

I really don't want it to be the membrane connection. I am not looking forward to undoing all those damned nuts.Plus I already bent one spring, I'd hate to lose another. (Anyone have a spare handy? I'll pay a buck plus shipping. If I'm gonna open it up anyway, might as well fix my F1 key.)

That missing space between nuts and Plus above is another dropped key... and I had paused before typing it...

[FourOhFour]

The membrane connection is easy to get to but it sounds like you have a stuck hammer or something.  Maybe just try loosening a few bolts.

Also, I can't emphasize this enough, you HAVE to clean the drill holes flat or you may be able to tighten that area down enough to get the key to register.

Assuming there's a missing "not" in there... that might be the problem. I also should have bought bigger nuts ()... the ones I have are small enough they can get hung up on the edge of the hole.

hmm. I can type a u by just barely touching the key. No more than a mm worth of travel, probably less. Looks like I'll be removing a whole bunch of nuts.Damn.

[FourOhFour]

I'm back!

This time I backed out the screws that were crooked (my drilling *sucked*), assembled everything and put the nuts on the remaining screws, then tightened down the screws I backed out and put the nuts on those.

Damn it. Just had a missed space in that paragraph. The u key now requires more force than my iPhone keyboard, so that's good.

I suspect my problem is that the nuts are too small. Missed another space. Anyway... I probably should get some larger nuts or add some washers. Another space.

If my only problem key now is the space bar, that would imply that the problem nuts are the ones in that vicinity, right? Maybe I'll try to pick up a few washers or larger nuts at the hardware store tomorrow.

[FourOhFour]

Unfortunately washers in that particularly area are just enough to make it hard to slide the bottom grooves in.  I think you need the 4-40 nuts and 4x8mm bolts to really make this work exactly.  Or try a file and flattening the bolts a bit.  Does sound like you are getting closer though.

If all else fails, I can always add another drainage hole where the case conflicts with the nut ;-)

EDIT: I added the nuts to the two screws at the very bottom of the keyboard that I omitted because, well, because I was in a hurry to test it and thought how important can they be? Well... rather important. Just those two reduced my missing spaces greatly. Which surprises me, I would have thought the screw would have grabbed the plastic well enough without the nut.


---


Now, to drag this thread back on topic... the topic was numlock, for those of you who have forgotten...

If the keyboard sends the numlock key every time shift-scrlock is pressed, that still doesn't offer a way to toggle between the numbers and the arrows on the numpad. Unless it only happens every other time shift-scrlock is pressed? (Not that I can use those arrows on a Mac anyway, which doesn't use numlock)

[FourOhFour]

Bah. I get the dropped w every time I type power unless I slow down. I don't think this is an issue with the screw mod.

At my family's vacation place in VT I have a computer with a PS/2 port. It's sitting in a closet running the weather station, but I should be able to attach this keyboard to it and give it a shot there... see if it is the adapter.

[FourOhFour]

I'm a little confused here.  I hit SHF-Numlock.  Then I have the "Virtual Numpad" feature of the IBM Mini on (I=5 IIRC).  Go accountant happy.  Then I hit SHF-Numlock.  Everything is back to normal keyboard layout.

We are talking the IBM Space Saving Keyboard here?

Doesn't yours work that way?

Yes it does. But it *also* seems to send the numlock key to the computer. Now, if it does this every time it's pressed, it'd turn numlock on (so the embedded numpad generates numbers) when you turned the numpad on, and turn numlock back off when you turned the numpad off... which means there'd be no way to access the arrows which are also printed on the keys for the embedded numpad. Which just seems strange to me.

But, as a Mac user... I don't much care since Mac OS doesn't use numlock. It works as "clear" which 90% of the time does nothing.

[rdh]

6nce 4p6n a t50e, rdh absent-05nded3y f6rg6t t6 t4rn 6ff the e0bedded n40ber pad 6n h5s 2eyb6ard...

[Rajagra]

Use shift?

Also, if you plug in a second keyboard and toggle NumLock with that, does it also affect whether the M Mini works in numpad mode?

[FourOhFour]

Could be a bum  spring.  Was this a really used keyboard?  Try pulling a spring from the Scroll Lock key and putting it into the W.  There are instructions in the Mods section of the forum for how to do this WITHOUT opening up the case again.

I kinda doubt it is the adapter but that would be a good test.

When I had it open I had all the springs out. While possible, it is highly unlikely that the same spring ended up in the w spot again.

[ch_123]

If there's a problem with the spring - you'll feel it.

[FourOhFour]

Ok, having looked at the selection of little screws at my local hardware store, I think M2.5 would have been a better choice than M2. But that's done now, and they don't have enough of them to do it over anyway.

I managed to scrape up a computer with a PS/2 port... problem still persists, so it isn't the adapter.

I got a few washers, I'm gonna try that now on the nuts that are slipping into the holes in the metal plate... Even if the keyboard won't fit correctly in the case after that, if the problem goes away it means I should consider finding some nuts larger than 4mm or switching out the screws for something with a larger nut.

[Mnemonix]

On the Numlock thing I plugged in my full size Model M.  I didn't know this since I use it so rarely but there are no special characters sent for the non-numlock keypresses.  In other words, it's always scancodes for KP. to KP9 being sent.  So  the BIOS/OS relies on Numlock being sent to know what state the key is in.

This makes sense. Modifiers (Shift et al.) and regular keys are sent on two different "channels", too, and the OS needs to map Shift+Somekey to some character, depending on locale settings.
The same thing happens for the numpad keys; here, the modifier is Num, and it is locked/unlocked by pressing NumLock (just like it is done for CapsLock).

[FourOhFour]

On the Numlock thing I plugged in my full size Model M.  I didn't know this since I use it so rarely but there are no special characters sent for the non-numlock keypresses.  In other words, it's always scancodes for KP. to KP9 being sent.  So  the BIOS/OS relies on Numlock being sent to know what state the key is in.

If you can, try hooking up both the spacesaver and another keyboard.

At least hooked up to an old PC laptop, the laptop's internal keyboard's numlock key would turn off the embedded numpad on the spacesaver... so the model M must watch the status of the numlock light (even though it doesn't have one)... but Mac OS doesn't light the numlock light ever*... yet the embedded numpad on the keyboard works fine.

Confused yet?


Oh, and I think I might have found the problem with mine... the damned screws near the w key are spinning freely when I try to tighten them. Joy. A third hand would make this so much easier...

[FourOhFour]

Sounds like you're getting closer on the misfiring keys though.

No I'm not. Seems the spacebar issue is gone, but I can't type "power" unless I slow down.

I really wish I waited to replace the rivets until I had the PS/2 adapter and could test the keyboard. For all I know, this issue was pre-existing.

I'm giving up for now.

[FourOhFour]

GO||T I|T

er. Ok. maybe not. Where the **** did those pipes come from? Damn it.

Anyway... fixed the w in power... I noticed when I plugged it in to my computer, the computer beeped a ton... went to plug it into the PC again, and got 75 Microsoft Help windows. Apparently F1 was stuck down. (this is the one with the bent spring)

Removed the key cap, jiggled the spring, replaced the keycap, and now I can type power. Next time I open it up, I'll leave that spring out.

I still don't know where those pipes came from in GOT IT... Grr.

I think this keyboard is haunted. That's the problem.

[ricercar]

I already bent one spring, I'd hate to lose another. (Anyone have a spare handy? I'll pay a buck plus shipping. If I'm gonna open it up anyway, might as well fix my F1 key.)

Do you still need a Model M spring/hammer? Send me PM if you do still need one.