Author Topic: [IC] Austin - Compact Full Size Keyboard (Rollout Update!)  (Read 30395 times)

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Offline Gondolindrim

  • Posts: 249
    • My GitHub
Re: [IC] Austin - Compact Full Size Keyboard 1800/CP (formerly DB01)
« Reply #50 on: Sun, 09 June 2019, 23:26:13 »
Quick update, in order to accomplish the dual bottom layout of 1.5/1.5/7/1.5/1.5 and 1.25/1.25/1.25/6.25/1.5/1.5, we are going to change the switches to be North facing for the tsangan layout 1.25/1.25/1.25/6.25/1.5/1.5. This allows people to use either layout without needing to pick a particular file to flash. If there is any objection, please let us know here or in the discord.

Thanks!

We figured it out guys, all LEDs will be south facing
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline steazy

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] Austin - Compact Full Size Keyboard 1800/CP (formerly DB01)
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 10 June 2019, 03:06:27 »
I am in love with this board!

Re: [IC] Austin - Compact Full Size Keyboard 1800/CP (formerly DB01)
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 10 June 2019, 10:29:37 »
Is raw, uncoated, non-anodized aluminum a viable case color option?  Aluminum naturally forms a protective oxide and a muted patina over time which might be interesting - has anyone tried this?

Superb layout and design - I'm very interested in this GB.

Offline WithoutWeakness

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] Austin - Compact Full Size Keyboard 1800/CP (formerly DB01)
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 10 June 2019, 14:46:15 »
Is raw, uncoated, non-anodized aluminum a viable case color option?  Aluminum naturally forms a protective oxide and a muted patina over time which might be interesting - has anyone tried this?

Superb layout and design - I'm very interested in this GB.
I don't think it would be as interesting as you might imagine. The aluminum oxide patina is basically a thin dull-grey outer coating. Given that the casing of a keyboard isn't usually handled directly in any manner I don't think you would really get any notable results other than a dull grey case for your keyboard. Maybe a wrist rest or integrated palm rests on something like a full-hand ErgoDox would be better but at best it would be somewhat shiny where your wrists sit/rub and dull grey everywhere else.

Offline driftingbunnies

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 194
Re: [IC] Austin - Compact Full Size Keyboard 1800/CP (formerly DB01)
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 10 June 2019, 14:50:18 »
Is raw, uncoated, non-anodized aluminum a viable case color option?  Aluminum naturally forms a protective oxide and a muted patina over time which might be interesting - has anyone tried this?

Superb layout and design - I'm very interested in this GB.

Unfortunately, you might be the only person who would be interested in a raw aluminum case. Also, we will probably only offer 3 colors since additional colors will add more to the cost. Be sure to fill out the IC form so I can tabulate which colors are more popular! Thanks.  :)

Offline aslejoh

  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Norway
Love this!  :eek:
NO!

Offline driftingbunnies

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 194
Updates posted to OP

Offline reidd

  • Posts: 72
Is raw, uncoated, non-anodized aluminum a viable case color option?  Aluminum naturally forms a protective oxide and a muted patina over time which might be interesting - has anyone tried this?

Superb layout and design - I'm very interested in this GB.

Unfortunately, you might be the only person who would be interested in a raw aluminum case. Also, we will probably only offer 3 colors since additional colors will add more to the cost. Be sure to fill out the IC form so I can tabulate which colors are more popular! Thanks.  :)

If there is a RAW option I will probably join hahah

Offline cyyz

  • Posts: 36
I was hoping silver would be offered, but in for one regardless.

Offline driftingbunnies

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 194
I was hoping silver would be offered, but in for one regardless.

Depending on the price for a 4th color, silver might be added.

Offline hottrout

  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Northern Ireland
I would jump in if ISO becomes an option.  It is a very clean design, like a lot.

Do you think ISO will be available?
I started with a Sinclair human flesh keyboard in 1980 and it has never stopped.

Rig1 |i9-7940x@4.8ghz|32GB(3600)|RTX 2080Ti|Bespoke Water, 360m Rad|X299 Prime Deluxe|EK x299 Monoblock|Optane 900p|2x1TB 960 Pro|2x10TB Helium|Dell U3415W + Dell UP2116Q
Rig2 |i9-9900k@5GHz|16GB(3200)|STRIX1080Ti|EK Closed Water Loop|Z390-F|1TB 960 Pro|Dell AW3418DW
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Offline driftingbunnies

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 194
I would jump in if ISO becomes an option.  It is a very clean design, like a lot.

Do you think ISO will be available?

Thanks! We were hoping it would be a clean "endgame" workboard.

Unfortunately we're probably a little too late in the game to be implementing ISO. Hopefully you'll still consider joining.

Offline Kokaloo

  • Posts: 221
  • Location: Las Vegas
  • 🤘( ω )🤙
That blue is unnffff, very nice!

Offline sadmachine

  • Posts: 14
Will this be VIA-compatible?

Offline Gondolindrim

  • Posts: 249
    • My GitHub
Will this be VIA-compatible?

Unfortunately no. VIA is not accepting anymore boards for now
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline objex

  • Posts: 9
  • Location: Asteroid belt
I've been looking for a layout like this! And with qmk too? I am definitely in.

Offline RivieraS

  • Posts: 69
Cant wait
CheShiRex#2354

Offline hottrout

  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Northern Ireland
I would jump in if ISO becomes an option.  It is a very clean design, like a lot.

Do you think ISO will be available?

Thanks! We were hoping it would be a clean "endgame" workboard.

Unfortunately we're probably a little too late in the game to be implementing ISO. Hopefully you'll still consider joining.


This makes me very sad.  Why is ISO not considered a standard requirement.  There is a world outside of the US.  This keeb is beautiful but without ISO support it can't be my daily driver, which is exactly why I want it.
I started with a Sinclair human flesh keyboard in 1980 and it has never stopped.

Rig1 |i9-7940x@4.8ghz|32GB(3600)|RTX 2080Ti|Bespoke Water, 360m Rad|X299 Prime Deluxe|EK x299 Monoblock|Optane 900p|2x1TB 960 Pro|2x10TB Helium|Dell U3415W + Dell UP2116Q
Rig2 |i9-9900k@5GHz|16GB(3200)|STRIX1080Ti|EK Closed Water Loop|Z390-F|1TB 960 Pro|Dell AW3418DW
Rig3 |i5-7500|16GB(2400)|H110 Pro BTC+|8x1080Ti|2x1200Watt PSU

Offline Anakey

  • Posts: 85
Unfortunately the market is big enough in the US and also China that they can fill the maximum order quantity as ansi alone and so they just decide to ignore ISO because it is not worth the effort to cater for a few that would want ISO when those spots will be filled by ansi anyway as well as the useless reasons of pcb compatibility and plates with bigger cutouts.

Offline hottrout

  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Northern Ireland
Unfortunately the market is big enough in the US and also China that they can fill the maximum order quantity as ansi alone and so they just decide to ignore ISO because it is not worth the effort to cater for a few that would want ISO when those spots will be filled by ansi anyway as well as the useless reasons of pcb compatibility and plates with bigger cutouts.

I get it but .... this hobby is nothing if not niche.  If the whole things starts to turn into a sales driven business, we all may as well just buy a decent Filco and get on with it.  ISO requirements is not even niche to start with.  Europe + UK + Ireland + many others.

I started with a Sinclair human flesh keyboard in 1980 and it has never stopped.

Rig1 |i9-7940x@4.8ghz|32GB(3600)|RTX 2080Ti|Bespoke Water, 360m Rad|X299 Prime Deluxe|EK x299 Monoblock|Optane 900p|2x1TB 960 Pro|2x10TB Helium|Dell U3415W + Dell UP2116Q
Rig2 |i9-9900k@5GHz|16GB(3200)|STRIX1080Ti|EK Closed Water Loop|Z390-F|1TB 960 Pro|Dell AW3418DW
Rig3 |i5-7500|16GB(2400)|H110 Pro BTC+|8x1080Ti|2x1200Watt PSU

Offline Poesjuh

  • Posts: 501
  • Location: Netherlands - N-H
I'd say that once more the most easy solution would be to include iso compatibility in the PCB (few extra holes and that's it) and to release the plates files (after the gb) so potential ISO buyers can get their own plate cut. Plus, ansi buyer might want a different material plat so they can get that as well :)

Offline hottrout

  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Northern Ireland
I'd say that once more the most easy solution would be to include iso compatibility in the PCB (few extra holes and that's it) and to release the plates files (after the gb) so potential ISO buyers can get their own plate cut. Plus, ansi buyer might want a different material plat so they can get that as well :)

That would be a good start.
I started with a Sinclair human flesh keyboard in 1980 and it has never stopped.

Rig1 |i9-7940x@4.8ghz|32GB(3600)|RTX 2080Ti|Bespoke Water, 360m Rad|X299 Prime Deluxe|EK x299 Monoblock|Optane 900p|2x1TB 960 Pro|2x10TB Helium|Dell U3415W + Dell UP2116Q
Rig2 |i9-9900k@5GHz|16GB(3200)|STRIX1080Ti|EK Closed Water Loop|Z390-F|1TB 960 Pro|Dell AW3418DW
Rig3 |i5-7500|16GB(2400)|H110 Pro BTC+|8x1080Ti|2x1200Watt PSU

Offline driftingbunnies

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 194
I would jump in if ISO becomes an option.  It is a very clean design, like a lot.

Do you think ISO will be available?

Thanks! We were hoping it would be a clean "endgame" workboard.

Unfortunately we're probably a little too late in the game to be implementing ISO. Hopefully you'll still consider joining.


This makes me very sad.  Why is ISO not considered a standard requirement.  There is a world outside of the US.  This keeb is beautiful but without ISO support it can't be my daily driver, which is exactly why I want it.

I will ask my team to see what they think and maybe we can come up with a solution. I do understand that there are a few out there that would like this board if it had ISO but here are some of the reasons why I decided not to include compatibility.

  • ISO enter compromises the integrity of the Enter area on the PCB. My goal was to have a fairly fixed PCB layout and reduce any swiss cheese.
  • I personally wanted to reduce the risk of shipping too many boards outside of the U.S. While it shouldn't be an issue, there is always risk when having to declare and ship to other countries. This is my own personal preference. I understand there are people who ship overseas all the time but I still believe there is risk there.
  • Since I am in the U.S. and I am an ANSI user, I think it makes sense to offer ANSI. Similarly, if I was interested in a board that was being made from someone in the UK and all they offered was ISO, I would understand that. If someone in Japan offered only JIS, I wouldn't be upset because they decided not to include ANSI.


Hopefully we can come up with a solution for those who are interested in Austin but also want ISO. TBH, I think there is less than a handful but please let me know in Discord that you are interested so I can keep in mind how many are interested.

Offline hottrout

  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Northern Ireland
I would jump in if ISO becomes an option.  It is a very clean design, like a lot.

Do you think ISO will be available?

Thanks! We were hoping it would be a clean "endgame" workboard.

Unfortunately we're probably a little too late in the game to be implementing ISO. Hopefully you'll still consider joining.


This makes me very sad.  Why is ISO not considered a standard requirement.  There is a world outside of the US.  This keeb is beautiful but without ISO support it can't be my daily driver, which is exactly why I want it.

I will ask my team to see what they think and maybe we can come up with a solution. I do understand that there are a few out there that would like this board if it had ISO but here are some of the reasons why I decided not to include compatibility.

  • ISO enter compromises the integrity of the Enter area on the PCB. My goal was to have a fairly fixed PCB layout and reduce any swiss cheese.
  • I personally wanted to reduce the risk of shipping too many boards outside of the U.S. While it shouldn't be an issue, there is always risk when having to declare and ship to other countries. This is my own personal preference. I understand there are people who ship overseas all the time but I still believe there is risk there.
  • Since I am in the U.S. and I am an ANSI user, I think it makes sense to offer ANSI. Similarly, if I was interested in a board that was being made from someone in the UK and all they offered was ISO, I would understand that. If someone in Japan offered only JIS, I wouldn't be upset because they decided not to include ANSI.


Hopefully we can come up with a solution for those who are interested in Austin but also want ISO. TBH, I think there is less than a handful but please let me know in Discord that you are interested so I can keep in mind how many are interested.

I do understand and am not actually mad at your decision.   It makes sense in every way.  I just hate missing out on keyboards as good as this one.  I know you understand where I am coming from.
I started with a Sinclair human flesh keyboard in 1980 and it has never stopped.

Rig1 |i9-7940x@4.8ghz|32GB(3600)|RTX 2080Ti|Bespoke Water, 360m Rad|X299 Prime Deluxe|EK x299 Monoblock|Optane 900p|2x1TB 960 Pro|2x10TB Helium|Dell U3415W + Dell UP2116Q
Rig2 |i9-9900k@5GHz|16GB(3200)|STRIX1080Ti|EK Closed Water Loop|Z390-F|1TB 960 Pro|Dell AW3418DW
Rig3 |i5-7500|16GB(2400)|H110 Pro BTC+|8x1080Ti|2x1200Watt PSU

Offline Gondolindrim

  • Posts: 249
    • My GitHub
I'd say that once more the most easy solution would be to include iso compatibility in the PCB (few extra holes and that's it) and to release the plates files (after the gb) so potential ISO buyers can get their own plate cut. Plus, ansi buyer might want a different material plat so they can get that as well :)

That would be a good start.

PCB-wise, ISO implementation is not a problem at all. What really is at stake here is the philosophy of this board - a clean "endgame" type board, and ISO support does compromise both PCB and plate integrity.

Talking to bunnies we came up with an idea. The PCB will be released under the Acheron project, and as such will be published under Open-Source Hardwarw guidelines, meaning anyone will be able to order extra PCBs. Mind you this was agreed from the start. The files will be completely published in their KiCad form once the GB is over. We could take advantage of this and implement ISO compatibility in a posterior version after the GB, so you ISO guys can run an after groupbuy among you. If bunnies agrees I could also make plate files so you can easily and cheaply order them made from FR4, in the same package as the PCB.

I could also customize the PCB to your liking, adding or removing key support, even making an "iso only" version. I am willing to do this redesign free of charge so we can expand the lifetime and support of the board for the users.

Then again, this is an idea we are discussing. The problem with it is that by knowing you would order an extra PCB after, you would not want to buy the original GB version, and we are not splitting kits.

We could also offer the ISO PCB and ISO FR4 plate as an extra kit, but that should be discussed more because it would take a lot more logistics and possibly more prototyping. This brings a big issue: let's face it, only a handful of the GB participants would buy this kit and the PCBA factory MOQ is 5 PCBs. So we already have an MOQ. Not only that, at the small quantity of five PCBs, the unitary prices of manufacturing and assembling skyrocket to possibly 80 bucks a PCB, meaning that the supposed add-on kit could easily cross 100 dollars price.

A third idea would be as you said -- make the original PCB ISO compatible. Honestly I think we'll avoid that since it goes against the board philosophy of being simple and clean.

We'd love to hear you guys on these ideas. We really want to accommodate as much people as we can but, then again, this is a very limited run and our priority is to deliver a clean, high-end keeb.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 July 2019, 01:05:11 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline Anakey

  • Posts: 85
I'd say that once more the most easy solution would be to include iso compatibility in the PCB (few extra holes and that's it) and to release the plates files (after the gb) so potential ISO buyers can get their own plate cut. Plus, ansi buyer might want a different material plat so they can get that as well :)

That would be a good start.

PCB-wise, ISO implementation is not a problem at all. What really is at stake here is the philosophy of this board - a clean "endgame" type board, and ISO support does compromise both PCB and plate integrity.

Talking to bunnies we came up with an idea. The PCB will be released under the Acheron project, and as such will be published under Open-Source Hardwarw guidelines, meaning anyone will be able to order extra PCBs. Mind you this was agreed from the start. The files will be completely published in their KiCad form once the GB is over. We could take advantage of this and implement ISO compatibility in a posterior version after the GB, so you ISO guys can run an after groupbuy among you. If bunnies agrees I could also make plate files so you can easily and cheaply order them made from FR4, in the same package as the PCB.

I could also customize the PCB to your liking, adding or removing key support, even making an "iso only" version. I am willing to do this redesign free of charge so we can expand the lifetime and support of the board for the users.

Then again, this is an idea we are discussing. The problem with it is that by knowing you would order an extra PCB after, you would not want to buy the original GB version, and we are not splitting kits.

We could also offer the ISO PCB and ISO FR4 plate as an extra kit, but that should be discussed more because it would take a lot more logistics and possibly more prototyping. This brings a big issue: let's face it, only a handful of the GB participants would buy this kit and the PCBA factory MOQ is 5 PCBs. So we already have an MOQ. Not only that, at the small quantity of five PCBs, the unitary prices of manufacturing and assembling skyrocket to possibly 80 bucks a PCB, meaning that the supposed add-on kit could easily cross 100 dollars price.

A third idea would be as you said -- make the original PCB ISO compatible. Honestly I think we'll avoid that since it goes against the board philosophy of being simple and clean.

We'd love to hear you guys on these ideas. We really want to accommodate as much people as we can but, then again, this is a very limited run and our priority is to deliver a clean, high-end keeb.

Why does it matter about having a clean pcb that is not seen when in the case? Plate I can fully understand so long as a plate file can be released then one can get one cut locally in the material of their choosing so you can keep the clean plate. This above post is just basically trying to politely ask those that want ISO not to bother.
Nevertheless it is your board and you are free to do as you please with it, I am sure there will be other 'High End' boards that would not be so entrenched in their ways and would be more accommodating to those outside ansi.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 July 2019, 03:14:25 by Anakey »

Offline finalarcadia

  • Posts: 214
Just say no to ISO :D

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Offline Gondolindrim

  • Posts: 249
    • My GitHub
I'd say that once more the most easy solution would be to include iso compatibility in the PCB (few extra holes and that's it) and to release the plates files (after the gb) so potential ISO buyers can get their own plate cut. Plus, ansi buyer might want a different material plat so they can get that as well :)

That would be a good start.

PCB-wise, ISO implementation is not a problem at all. What really is at stake here is the philosophy of this board - a clean "endgame" type board, and ISO support does compromise both PCB and plate integrity.

Talking to bunnies we came up with an idea. The PCB will be released under the Acheron project, and as such will be published under Open-Source Hardwarw guidelines, meaning anyone will be able to order extra PCBs. Mind you this was agreed from the start. The files will be completely published in their KiCad form once the GB is over. We could take advantage of this and implement ISO compatibility in a posterior version after the GB, so you ISO guys can run an after groupbuy among you. If bunnies agrees I could also make plate files so you can easily and cheaply order them made from FR4, in the same package as the PCB.

I could also customize the PCB to your liking, adding or removing key support, even making an "iso only" version. I am willing to do this redesign free of charge so we can expand the lifetime and support of the board for the users.

Then again, this is an idea we are discussing. The problem with it is that by knowing you would order an extra PCB after, you would not want to buy the original GB version, and we are not splitting kits.

We could also offer the ISO PCB and ISO FR4 plate as an extra kit, but that should be discussed more because it would take a lot more logistics and possibly more prototyping. This brings a big issue: let's face it, only a handful of the GB participants would buy this kit and the PCBA factory MOQ is 5 PCBs. So we already have an MOQ. Not only that, at the small quantity of five PCBs, the unitary prices of manufacturing and assembling skyrocket to possibly 80 bucks a PCB, meaning that the supposed add-on kit could easily cross 100 dollars price.

A third idea would be as you said -- make the original PCB ISO compatible. Honestly I think we'll avoid that since it goes against the board philosophy of being simple and clean.

We'd love to hear you guys on these ideas. We really want to accommodate as much people as we can but, then again, this is a very limited run and our priority is to deliver a clean, high-end keeb.

Why does it matter about having a clean pcb that is not seen when in the case? Plate I can fully understand so long as a plate file can be released then one can get one cut locally in the material of their choosing so you can keep the clean plate. This above post is just basically trying to politely ask those that want ISO not to bother.
Nevertheless it is your board and you are free to do as you please with it, I am sure there will be other 'High End' boards that would not be so entrenched in their ways and would be more accommodating to those outside ansi.

In all honesty, I'm sorry if I came as arrogant. I was just presenting ideas, really. And I didn't want to "politely dismiss" anyone who wants ISO support. The main issue here, as you said, is the plate. The PCB can receive ISO support no problem.

Also you gave us a really good idea, which is do ISO compatible PCB and release plate files after the GB so that you guys can cut the plate. We are discussing this and honestly I think it's a good solution. Thank you for the help.

Again, ideas are welcome and we are here for feedback.
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 July 2019, 12:08:20 by Gondolindrim »
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline hottrout

  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Northern Ireland
A clean PCB does not come high on my priority, even when spending large sums on a keyboard.  ISO support is not just the UK, it is required for a large proportion of Europe as well, not to mention those that simply prefer its layout.

I appreciate more than most the complications of trying to make most of the people happy most of the time, having said that, if and when there is a simple inclusion that can be made at the start of a project like this, it should be made.  This hobby is very very niche.  It should always be about providing for the few that support it.

Either way I appreciate your hard work and fully understand the complications of trying to put something like this together.  You have my support and my respect for doing when others talk, I just might not be able to use this keyboard for my daily driver, which is exactly how I saw it.  There is no higher praise for any bespoke keeb than becoming the daily driver.  Most of our 'interest' boards don't get used that often.  The 'daily driver' becomes your friend.

I started with a Sinclair human flesh keyboard in 1980 and it has never stopped.

Rig1 |i9-7940x@4.8ghz|32GB(3600)|RTX 2080Ti|Bespoke Water, 360m Rad|X299 Prime Deluxe|EK x299 Monoblock|Optane 900p|2x1TB 960 Pro|2x10TB Helium|Dell U3415W + Dell UP2116Q
Rig2 |i9-9900k@5GHz|16GB(3200)|STRIX1080Ti|EK Closed Water Loop|Z390-F|1TB 960 Pro|Dell AW3418DW
Rig3 |i5-7500|16GB(2400)|H110 Pro BTC+|8x1080Ti|2x1200Watt PSU

Offline driftingbunnies

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 194
I'd say that once more the most easy solution would be to include iso compatibility in the PCB (few extra holes and that's it) and to release the plates files (after the gb) so potential ISO buyers can get their own plate cut. Plus, ansi buyer might want a different material plat so they can get that as well :)

That would be a good start.

PCB-wise, ISO implementation is not a problem at all. What really is at stake here is the philosophy of this board - a clean "endgame" type board, and ISO support does compromise both PCB and plate integrity.

Talking to bunnies we came up with an idea. The PCB will be released under the Acheron project, and as such will be published under Open-Source Hardwarw guidelines, meaning anyone will be able to order extra PCBs. Mind you this was agreed from the start. The files will be completely published in their KiCad form once the GB is over. We could take advantage of this and implement ISO compatibility in a posterior version after the GB, so you ISO guys can run an after groupbuy among you. If bunnies agrees I could also make plate files so you can easily and cheaply order them made from FR4, in the same package as the PCB.

I could also customize the PCB to your liking, adding or removing key support, even making an "iso only" version. I am willing to do this redesign free of charge so we can expand the lifetime and support of the board for the users.

Then again, this is an idea we are discussing. The problem with it is that by knowing you would order an extra PCB after, you would not want to buy the original GB version, and we are not splitting kits.

We could also offer the ISO PCB and ISO FR4 plate as an extra kit, but that should be discussed more because it would take a lot more logistics and possibly more prototyping. This brings a big issue: let's face it, only a handful of the GB participants would buy this kit and the PCBA factory MOQ is 5 PCBs. So we already have an MOQ. Not only that, at the small quantity of five PCBs, the unitary prices of manufacturing and assembling skyrocket to possibly 80 bucks a PCB, meaning that the supposed add-on kit could easily cross 100 dollars price.

A third idea would be as you said -- make the original PCB ISO compatible. Honestly I think we'll avoid that since it goes against the board philosophy of being simple and clean.

We'd love to hear you guys on these ideas. We really want to accommodate as much people as we can but, then again, this is a very limited run and our priority is to deliver a clean, high-end keeb.

Why does it matter about having a clean pcb that is not seen when in the case? Plate I can fully understand so long as a plate file can be released then one can get one cut locally in the material of their choosing so you can keep the clean plate. This above post is just basically trying to politely ask those that want ISO not to bother.
Nevertheless it is your board and you are free to do as you please with it, I am sure there will be other 'High End' boards that would not be so entrenched in their ways and would be more accommodating to those outside ansi.

Thanks for your feedback. I hope you can appreciate the fact that this started out much smaller than what it is turning out to be. There are reasons boards like Maarten's PlainC and Upas' AN-C exists. The purpose of those boards are to reduce the number of layouts so that there is less swiss cheese making it easier for the user to build their board.

We would be moving from something like this:
222601-0

To this:


No matter how you look at it, the board is less complicated and easier to build. We're not trying to actively not include ISO users but given that this started as a very small project (20-30) units, including ISO was not one of our top priorities. I for one care about having a clean PCB when building even if I don't see it. Why do people buy multicolor switches if you don't see them? Why do weights have designs if you won't see them when you're using it? Since the hobby is still relatively new and growing, I think there is room to try different things even if it might seem "unaccomodating" or "entrenched in their ways".

Anyways, now that we are adding ISO compatibility, I hope to see your name on the GB list  :thumb:

A clean PCB does not come high on my priority, even when spending large sums on a keyboard.  ISO support is not just the UK, it is required for a large proportion of Europe as well, not to mention those that simply prefer its layout.

I appreciate more than most the complications of trying to make most of the people happy most of the time, having said that, if and when there is a simple inclusion that can be made at the start of a project like this, it should be made.  This hobby is very very niche.  It should always be about providing for the few that support it.

Either way I appreciate your hard work and fully understand the complications of trying to put something like this together.  You have my support and my respect for doing when others talk, I just might not be able to use this keyboard for my daily driver, which is exactly how I saw it.  There is no higher praise for any bespoke keeb than becoming the daily driver.  Most of our 'interest' boards don't get used that often.  The 'daily driver' becomes your friend.


Thank you for your support! It is very difficult to appease most parties. Since everything in this hobby is a preference, it's impossible have every option available to make everyone happy. Mentioned above, this projected started out small and got bigger as time went on which is why we did not consider including ISO. We are hoping to make these daily drivers for those who use a numpad often. I know I will be using it as one.

We will consider implementing the ISO compat but will think about how to add plates later. If we're unable to provide it in the GB, we will release an ISO only plate file for those who need it made.



I'd like to thank everyone for their feedback. Please feel free to join our discord server if you have any additional feedback. While it's fun to create a board that I know I will enjoy, I hope others will be able to enjoy it as well! It's much easier to make changes earlier in the process rather than later.

P.S. Please excuse Gondo's essay. He was high on medicinal drugs and is currently in the hospital working on the PCB. None of this would be possible without him.
« Last Edit: Sun, 21 July 2019, 23:09:25 by driftingbunnies »

Offline Datastream

  • Posts: 44
This looks really cool! What would the projected cost be? Shipping to EU is going to be super expensive right?

Offline driftingbunnies

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 194
Currently the cost is $475 for a base kit before fees and shipping. I don't have shipping cost estimates at the moment but I hopefully will have a better idea once the GB starts.

Offline andrethreeclacks

  • Posts: 2
I think it is really nice that Driftingbunnies decided to add ISO support to the PCB. However, I must say all of the guilt tripping in this thread from some of the ISO group has left a bad taste in mouth. I don't remember people trying to make Yutski feel ashamed for not including ISO on their Alice PCB. I also don't understand the argument that because the hobby is niche that everyone should have their layout considered. Looking at the PCB now in the before and after pictures I can understand why a newer builder might feel more confident using the first option. There is wiggle room where the ANSI enter is placed thus requiring the person to pay more attention when trying to accomplish a perfectly aligned switch. If someone wants a clean PCB, that is their choice. In the same way that one buys colored switches that are never seen with caps, they making an individualized board for them. It will not change anything but what the person knows about how the board is built.

I just hope this line of complaining does not become commonplace because much of this thread felt like the antithesis of a supporting community. The most that should have been said "Ah man I love this board but since there is no ISO I will not be joining" and leave it at that. Jaekeebs does not go in guilt-tripping others into changing designs but does give praise to those that support the layout, I respect that of him and I believe that is the way it should be.

End of Rant

Offline hottrout

  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Northern Ireland
Not once did I complain. I have no right to as I am not doing the hard work of pulling this together. I just saw the perfect daily driver and wished to have it in ISO layout.

That is all.

If ISO is provided for in PCB and case I will be very happy and I am sure a lot of others will be as well. If not then that's also ok as this is only a hobby and people have lives and plenty of other stuff to worry about.


I started with a Sinclair human flesh keyboard in 1980 and it has never stopped.

Rig1 |i9-7940x@4.8ghz|32GB(3600)|RTX 2080Ti|Bespoke Water, 360m Rad|X299 Prime Deluxe|EK x299 Monoblock|Optane 900p|2x1TB 960 Pro|2x10TB Helium|Dell U3415W + Dell UP2116Q
Rig2 |i9-9900k@5GHz|16GB(3200)|STRIX1080Ti|EK Closed Water Loop|Z390-F|1TB 960 Pro|Dell AW3418DW
Rig3 |i5-7500|16GB(2400)|H110 Pro BTC+|8x1080Ti|2x1200Watt PSU

Offline andrethreeclacks

  • Posts: 2
"Why is ISO not considered a standard requirement. There is a world outside of the US. "

- if this is not a complaint then I guess its just an impassioned statement

Quote from: Anakey on July 11, 2019, 04:34:17 am
Unfortunately the market is big enough in the US and also China that they can fill the maximum order quantity as ansi alone and so they just decide to ignore ISO because it is not worth the effort to cater for a few that would want ISO when those spots will be filled by ansi anyway as well as the useless reasons of pcb compatibility and plates with bigger cutouts.

"I get it but .... this hobby is nothing if not niche.  If the whole things starts to turn into a sales driven business, we all may as well just buy a decent Filco and get on with it. ISO requirements is not even niche to start with.  Europe + UK + Ireland + many others."

-hyperbolic "the end of customs is neigh" because of one designer's choice

I respectfully disagree with your claim of not complaining once.

Anyway GLWB

Offline badboy731

  • Posts: 54
Oh wow. Very nice! Im on board!
E7-V1 | TGR Jane v2 CE | HBCP | GSKT-00 | Raine |

Offline hottrout

  • Posts: 383
  • Location: Northern Ireland
Are you complaining about my lack of acceptance of my own complaining? 
I started with a Sinclair human flesh keyboard in 1980 and it has never stopped.

Rig1 |i9-7940x@4.8ghz|32GB(3600)|RTX 2080Ti|Bespoke Water, 360m Rad|X299 Prime Deluxe|EK x299 Monoblock|Optane 900p|2x1TB 960 Pro|2x10TB Helium|Dell U3415W + Dell UP2116Q
Rig2 |i9-9900k@5GHz|16GB(3200)|STRIX1080Ti|EK Closed Water Loop|Z390-F|1TB 960 Pro|Dell AW3418DW
Rig3 |i5-7500|16GB(2400)|H110 Pro BTC+|8x1080Ti|2x1200Watt PSU

Offline GoofyBeanie

  • Posts: 2
Super in for this one~

Offline tonsoffun49

  • Posts: 4
  • Location: Ohio
May I ask why it is limited to only 40 boards? Is there a ballpark ETA on when the GB will start? (sorry if I missed it in an earlier post).

Offline driftingbunnies

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 194
May I ask why it is limited to only 40 boards? Is there a ballpark ETA on when the GB will start? (sorry if I missed it in an earlier post).

40 was just the number I was comfortable with managing so I can deliver a quality product while having extras in case things go wrong. GB timeline is still waiting on firmware to be tested. Unfortunately our team is in 3 different timezones but we're working as quickly as we can. Thanks for your patience.

Offline Datastream

  • Posts: 44
If there's more interest than spots available will it be first come first served or raffled entries?

Offline driftingbunnies

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 194
If there's more interest than spots available will it be first come first served or raffled entries?

Unfortunately it's really hard to gauge interest and how that translates into people actually buying during GB. Since we're not like Keycult or other recognized keyboard makers/designers, I can't assume that demand will severely outstrip supply.

Fortunately there will be extras/b stock after the GB concludes so hopefully if you can't join the GB, there is a chance to get one afterwards. If there is enough interest for a r2, that is also a possibility.

Offline badboy731

  • Posts: 54
Just take my monies man
E7-V1 | TGR Jane v2 CE | HBCP | GSKT-00 | Raine |

Offline VelourFog

  • Posts: 63
  • Location: NoVA
I really like this board, it makes me happy to see more than just 60% being made in this hobby.

Offline GraffitiDecos

  • Posts: 68
  • Location: Montreal, Qc
Great board! Full-size need some love!

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


Offline absit

  • Posts: 3
I somehow overlooked this project.  As someone who uses the tenkey daily, 2u 0 is a huge quality of life improvement over the 1u on other 1800/96 style boards and I'm surprised it isn't implemented more often.  The only aspect that isn't ideal for me personally is the angle, 5.5 degrees is a bit flatter than I typically enjoy.  Not a deal killer though, so depending on timing, I may be able to jump on this one.

Offline Gondolindrim

  • Posts: 249
    • My GitHub
I somehow overlooked this project.  As someone who uses the tenkey daily, 2u 0 is a huge quality of life improvement over the 1u on other 1800/96 style boards and I'm surprised it isn't implemented more often.  The only aspect that isn't ideal for me personally is the angle, 5.5 degrees is a bit flatter than I typically enjoy.  Not a deal killer though, so depending on timing, I may be able to jump on this one.

I get you. I use 2U 0 so much that the bottom part of my thumb is already callused and I cant use 1U anymore, I get all calculations wrong.
A pessimist will tell you the cup is half empty. An optimist will tell you the cup is half full. An engineer will tell you it's exactly twice the size it needs to be.

Offline pat.k.yan

  • Posts: 2
Wow, I've been in the market for an 1800 board for a while now - this one might be best layout I've seen!

Offline zantetsuken9000

  • Posts: 28
  • Location: Australia
On board with this!
Will be a perfect board for work.
KBD67 - Zealios 67g - GMK Bento

Offline Daggerfall

  • Posts: 31
  • Location: Copenhagen
I want in, my body and my workplace-Ducky Shine 3-waiting-desperately-to-be-replaced are ready.