Author Topic: [IC] KAT WoB  (Read 4682 times)

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Offline OneCreativeMind

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[IC] KAT WoB
« on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:26:47 »


Welcome all! OCM here :)

I'm very excited to finally show you something I have been working on in the shadows for a while.

It is all too difficult to get a classic WoB keyset these days, especially if you want good compatibility and/or higher profile.
Thus, the idea for KAT White on Black was born. It's like the little black dress of the keycap world.
White on Black, Icon mods, reverse dye-subbed PBT, in a profile that fits with everything.
What more could you want? Let me know what you think, excited to hear your thoughts!

__________________________________________

Kits

Imgur Gallery of all kits: https://imgur.com/a/VHdVtVq

Expand to view all of the kits! 
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__________________________________________

Board Renders

Imgur Gallery of all Board Renders: https://imgur.com/a/O26BDTi

S&R Iron165 
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TKC M011Y 
More





TKC SP111 
More




__________________________________________


Deskmat Mockups

Imgur Gallery of all Deskmat Mockups: https://imgur.com/a/PT7XKTg

Expand to view the deskmats 
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__________________________________________


Colors

Black: Pantone 426 C
White: Pantone Bright White

__________________________________________


Vendors and GB date

Date: TBD

US: TheKey.Company
EU: TBA
Asia: TBA
Australia: TBA

__________________________________________


What's Next?

- Waiting on samples and MOQ/Pricing from Keyreative (In Progress!)
- Secure proxies for EU, Asia, and Australia (In Progress!)
- Nail down a GB date (In Progress!)

__________________________________________


Special Thanks!

- The TX, 40%, TopClack and Archetype Discords for all of the crucial feedback
- Jason @ TheKey.Company for taking this set on
- MetallicCharles for the dope ass renders
- DixieMech for pushing me to try things I hadn't thought of initially.

__________________________________________

FEEDBACK FORM

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSebtWFGMDmgnnUFCpWZGDM8oZvNlR98v6aZes8Awf_jgfUFdQ/viewform?usp=sf_link

__________________________________________
« Last Edit: Fri, 04 October 2019, 21:56:49 by OneCreativeMind »

Offline OneCreativeMind

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:27:05 »
Reserved for updates.

Online bard

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:28:01 »
I'm in!  :cool:

Offline eskimojo

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:30:23 »
good lord that is clean

Online jrfhoutx

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:31:06 »
Thank you for putting all the renders in spoilers

Offline hughtrue

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:33:39 »
Hyped.

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Online nguyenhimself

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:33:53 »
I've never been a fan of plain WoB sets, but wow that Hiragana kit! And icon mods?
You've done a god job making this "simple" set really stand out. Well-done. I'm in!

Offline psxndc

  • Posts: 83
Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:34:39 »
Looks sweet. Definitely getting a weeb set, but gotta ask: Colevrak option?

Online nasp

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:35:17 »
If the price is as good as Milkshake, I'm def in.

Online BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:37:20 »
So beautiful, can't wait for this set.

Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:41:07 »
Instant cop

Offline KawabataLuis

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:42:16 »
Is it any possible to put hiragana sublegends on KAT?

Offline eskimojo

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:45:18 »
Is it any possible to put hiragana sublegends on KAT?

it's possible, but it's hard to pull off sublegends on a spherical profile.

Offline KawabataLuis

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:47:20 »
Is it any possible to put hiragana sublegends on KAT?

it's possible, but it's hard to pull off sublegends on a spherical profile.


Got it. I definitely in, regardless, sublegends would just make me love this even more :D

Offline dingusxmcgee

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:50:26 »
I like this. Following for sure!

Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:53:51 »
KAT, Clean, perfect set, I'll take it now please and thanks.

Offline mrkantz

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 12:57:42 »
Yes, finally a KAT set I want

Offline ja.ze

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:06:39 »
Apparently I'm going to get two WoB Hiragana kits this year...

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Offline IndyBuck

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:23:22 »
Id buy!


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Online Rensuya

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:25:20 »
Looks great man, I'll be in!

Online Popopro

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:26:30 »
Damn this look nice. Hiragana for me.

Offline bobdenard

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:27:55 »
Hi, Im in, looks so classy! Possibility of adding French kit like KAT Milkshake and KAT Atlantis?

Offline KingOfMemes

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:41:37 »
Looks sweet. Definitely getting a weeb set, but gotta ask: Colevrak option?
Asking as well. I'll default to the dirty weeb set, but I'd rather go alphas + colevrak
HHKB Colemak masterrace

Online fatboycarney

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:45:33 »
Fantastic looking set, any chance of a render on a white Chimera maybe  ;D) ?

Offline Minterly

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:48:53 »
yay give me

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 13:59:56 »
Very interesting.

A few random observations:

1) Are all KAT sets going to go with the "let's forget tertiary legends exist!" thing?. It's natural for US English, forgivable for UK English (omitting is a good thing to do, while omitting is not ideal but passable) but... more and more difficult to pull off nicely in every other main national layout (German, all Nordic layouts, French, Spanish (both), Portuguese (both), Iberoamerican, Italian, New Italian... not to say anything about Central and Eastern European layouts).

2a) Seems all KAT sets that choose icons are going with ⌦ for the Delete key (excellent), but that begs for the corresponding ⌫ sign for Backspace. Perhaps this should be an option, given the importance icons are given in this IC.

2b) IMNAAAHO, the icon for Insert (a down arrow) needs revising (looks like a misplace Caps Lock). Also, the icons for Print Screen and Pause seem to be swapped in the render. The Scroll Lock icon is unrecognizable (see below for more on this).

2c) I dig that the Alt icon has been mirrored over for the right side. However... since the 1U Alt key is very frequently placed on the right side, perhaps modifiers kit will need a 1U "mirrored icon" Alt key as well.

3a) Why copy the Cherry-style and  symbols on the numpad? Those keys produce * and / respectively, not the other symbols.

3b) I dig the Lock icon for Num Lock. But it begs the question... why three rather different "lock" symbols for Caps Lock, Num Lock and Scroll Lock? (the latter in need of a revision, as well) Could a common root icon be used for the three of them?

3c) R0 Esc in the numpad&1800 kit seems to be unnecessary (after all, it's already present in the TKL kit).

4) ISO support: UK English is correct (minus the tertiary legends, blah blah). Please consider adding an R3 \| key to complete support for US English over ISO and ANSISO. Also, I like the icon for AltGr.

X

Offline Vireca

  • Posts: 106
Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 14:14:49 »
Maybe its just the renders but dont looks like a real WoB like the GMK, black less black and white more near off white

Offline OneCreativeMind

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 14:16:10 »
Very interesting.

A few random observations:

1) Are all KAT sets going to go with the "let's forget tertiary legends exist!" thing?. It's natural for US English, forgivable for UK English (omitting is a good thing to do, while omitting is not ideal but passable) but... more and more difficult to pull off nicely in every other main national layout (German, all Nordic layouts, French, Spanish (both), Portuguese (both), Iberoamerican, Italian, New Italian... not to say anything about Central and Eastern European layouts).

2a) Seems all KAT sets that choose icons are going with ⌦ for the Delete key (excellent), but that begs for the corresponding ⌫ sign for Backspace. Perhaps this should be an option, given the importance icons are given in this IC.

2b) IMNAAAHO, the icon for Insert (a down arrow) needs revising (looks like a misplace Caps Lock). Also, the icons for Print Screen and Pause seem to be swapped in the render. The Scroll Lock icon is unrecognizable (see below for more on this).

2c) I dig that the Alt icon has been mirrored over for the right side. However... since the 1U Alt key is very frequently placed on the right side, perhaps modifiers kit will need a 1U "mirrored icon" Alt key as well.

3a) Why copy the Cherry-style and symbols on the numpad? Those keys produce * and / respectively, not the other symbols.

3b) I dig the Lock icon for Num Lock. But it begs the question... why three rather different "lock" symbols for Caps Lock, Num Lock and Scroll Lock? (the latter in need of a revision, as well) Could a common root icon be used for the three of them?

3c) R0 Esc in the numpad&1800 kit seems to be unnecessary (after all, it's already present in the TKL kit).

4) ISO support: UK English is correct (minus the tertiary legends, blah blah). Please consider adding an R3 \| key to complete support for US English over ISO and ANSISO. Also, I like the icon for AltGr.

Hey there!

1) I can explore tertiary legends for sure if the demand is there. KAT (and most spherical sets) make sublegends and tertiary legends pretty difficult, but I'm always willing to explore it if there is enough demand for something of that nature.

2a) Left-arrow style backspace and box-delete was the preferred icons by many. I have been IC'ing this privately on a handful of larger discords for a few months now and that is where it has netted out. I can explore other options if there is a demand for it though!

2b) I can explore the insert icon for sure. Pretty happy with the rest (Scroll lock) and the location of pause/scroll lock in the renders was a blunder on my part but doesn't really effect the kit breakdown since they are the same row.

2c) Flipped/Mirrored alt was actually a mistake and is currently being fixed by MetallicCharles!

3a) This was an aesthetic decision, I prefer the way they look and took a lot of inspiration from Cherry kits for my icons! I've gotten a good reception to these but if the majority prefers the older style, I can revert :)

3b) I wanted clearly differentiated icons, I can explore the insert icon further though. And will evaluate the others based on demand from the Geekhack community!

3c) For users with the full "calculator style numpads or numpads with additional rows! Just trying to cover all bases.

4) I can look into adding this key!


Now THIS is a way to present feedback. Clear, concise, with an opinion!

Offline OneCreativeMind

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 14:17:13 »
Maybe its just the renders but dont looks like a real WoB like the GMK, black less black and white more near off white

That is a by-product of the set being PBT and dyesub unfortunately! Going to get as close to a neutral black as physically possible (See: Kuro Shiro samples) but ABS will always have an edge when it comes to a "true" black.

Offline Adelscott

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 14:49:15 »
Nice set ! Could you add a ISO-FR kit please ?
(This seems like my daily routine for each new KAT set, I apologize for the repetitiveness)

Offline Banzai

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 15:00:26 »
Well done. I really wish I hadn't recently purchased GMK WoB and two child kits across three separate GBs now. This is everything I want in WoB in a profile I'm very interested in trying out. That said, I won't be partaking in this round, but you've put together a really great looking set and I think you've got a hit on your hands.

Now, if this is successful and you decide to follow up it with KAT BoW... well shut up and take my money.

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 15:04:58 »

Hey there!

1) I can explore tertiary legends for sure if the demand is there. KAT (and most spherical sets) make sublegends and tertiary legends pretty difficult, but I'm always willing to explore it if there is enough demand for something of that nature.

This was meant more as a general comment on KAT. KAT is new, and the stuff the first few successful sets do will surely set the stage for later sets... and if all those currently running go on the "non-tertiary whatsoever" route, it might become more difficult to alter it later, even if this does have the posterior implication of incomplete support for many national layouts.



2a) Left-arrow style backspace and box-delete was the preferred icons by many. I have been IC'ing this privately on a handful of larger discords for a few months now and that is where it has netted out. I can explore other options if there is a demand for it though!

I demand it! I demand it! :thumb:


2c) Flipped/Mirrored alt was actually a mistake and is currently being fixed by MetallicCharles!

:-(

Oh, well...


3a) This was an aesthetic decision, I prefer the way they look and took a lot of inspiration from Cherry kits for my icons! I've gotten a good reception to these but if the majority prefers the older style, I can revert :)

I am the supermajority. 'tis true. Ask around. :cool:


3c) For users with the full "calculator style numpads or numpads with additional rows! Just trying to cover all bases.

Didn't think of that! Keep it on, then.

X

Offline ddnomad

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 15:33:40 »
How different is KAT from SA?

As a fresh SA cult convert I do want more hipro sets and this one looks rad :)

Offline KingOfMemes

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 15:49:57 »
How different is KAT from SA?

As a fresh SA cult convert I do want more hipro sets and this one looks rad :)

HHKB Colemak masterrace

Offline ddnomad

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:02:24 »
How different is KAT from SA?

As a fresh SA cult convert I do want more hipro sets and this one looks rad :)

Show Image


Ahh, thats a handy pic. TYVM. So basically its a midpro SA?:D

Count me in on this one then!

Offline psxndc

  • Posts: 83
Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:07:14 »
Any chance we could get the length of the spacebars added to the renders? I'm old, so I can't tell what's a 1.75u and what's a 2u, etc. Thanks!

Offline Damage

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:07:37 »
The finish on the PBT is glossy/shiny, correct?

Offline harlekein

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:12:29 »
Please keep Hiragana monolegend. It's friendlier to other layouts and it looks cleaner imo. Definetely in.

Offline belgium_waffles

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:14:57 »
Looks great. Definitely in.

Offline OneCreativeMind

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:17:32 »
The finish on the PBT is glossy/shiny, correct?

KAT profile is super silky matte pbt

Offline carlouws

  • Posts: 7
Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 16:38:04 »
Would it be possible to add two 1.5 R4 Super keys in the TKL kit? These would allow a MacOS or a MacOS-like layout in 7u bottom-rows and in WKL when using alt and super in R4 and ctrl in R2.

Online architones

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 17:54:39 »
Interested! Has the KAT profile been tested with reverse dyesub (which is what I'm assuming will be the case here)?

Offline TheAutoManCan

  • Posts: 39
Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 17:58:32 »
Nice! I'm a huge fan of all-icon sets so this is a must buy. Just have a few things to say.

-The icon for Scroll Lock looks like it would be better suited for Insert. Maybe Scroll Lock could be up-and-down arrows with a bar through the middle or something like that?
-Caps Lock icon just looks upside down in my eyes. Caps Lock is based on the old Shift Lock so I think the open arrow pointed up with a bar underneath makes more sense.

Also, I might be wrong but aren't some of the rows mislabeled on the TKL kit? Based on the Alphas and the Numpad kits the (2u) Backspace row would be R1, the Tab row would be R2, and so on.

Offline Aerizu

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 18:09:55 »
I see 1.25u R2 Ctrl Key on 40s kit, I'm already in.  :))

Offline OneCreativeMind

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:12:03 »
Nice set ! Could you add a ISO-FR kit please ?
(This seems like my daily routine for each new KAT set, I apologize for the repetitiveness)

Heya! Definitely something I can consider! I've had a few requests for it.

Offline OneCreativeMind

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:13:12 »
Would it be possible to add two 1.5 R4 Super keys in the TKL kit? These would allow a MacOS or a MacOS-like layout in 7u bottom-rows and in WKL when using alt and super in R4 and ctrl in R2.

Hey there! What do you mean by "Super" keys for the 1.5u? Shouldn't the 1.5u alt keys work for that or am I over looking something?

Offline OneCreativeMind

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #46 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:13:46 »
Interested! Has the KAT profile been tested with reverse dyesub (which is what I'm assuming will be the case here)?

I've gotten photos of some samples, and am waiting on some for myself as well! :D

Offline OneCreativeMind

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:15:29 »
Nice! I'm a huge fan of all-icon sets so this is a must buy. Just have a few things to say.

-The icon for Scroll Lock looks like it would be better suited for Insert. Maybe Scroll Lock could be up-and-down arrows with a bar through the middle or something like that?
-Caps Lock icon just looks upside down in my eyes. Caps Lock is based on the old Shift Lock so I think the open arrow pointed up with a bar underneath makes more sense.

Also, I might be wrong but aren't some of the rows mislabeled on the TKL kit? Based on the Alphas and the Numpad kits the (2u) Backspace row would be R1, the Tab row would be R2, and so on.

I'll definitely consider changing those if the ask is there :) I put a lot of effort into the icons so I am glad you are liking them for the most part! Regarding the row profiles, they are correct. The extra R0 in the numpad kit is for users with 1800/compact 1800 style boards since they need an extra set of top-row caps for the numpad cluster.

Offline OneCreativeMind

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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:17:25 »
Any chance we could get the length of the spacebars added to the renders? I'm old, so I can't tell what's a 1.75u and what's a 2u, etc. Thanks!

I can definitely do that! in the meantime though they are 1u, 1.25u, 1.5u, 1.75u, 2u, 2.25u, 2.75u, 3u, and 6u :) basically wanted to cover all bases for non standard blank convex keys (besides the concave 1u, convex 1u looks odd)

Offline depletedvespene

  • Posts: 349
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Re: [IC] KAT WoB
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 03 October 2019, 19:37:58 »
Nice! I'm a huge fan of all-icon sets so this is a must buy. Just have a few things to say.

-The icon for Scroll Lock looks like it would be better suited for Insert. Maybe Scroll Lock could be up-and-down arrows with a bar through the middle or something like that?
-Caps Lock icon just looks upside down in my eyes. Caps Lock is based on the old Shift Lock so I think the open arrow pointed up with a bar underneath makes more sense.

Also, I might be wrong but aren't some of the rows mislabeled on the TKL kit? Based on the Alphas and the Numpad kits the (2u) Backspace row would be R1, the Tab row would be R2, and so on.

I'll definitely consider changing those if the ask is there :) I put a lot of effort into the icons so I am glad you are liking them for the most part! Regarding the row profiles, they are correct. The extra R0 in the numpad kit is for users with 1800/compact 1800 style boards since they need an extra set of top-row caps for the numpad cluster.

On Ellipse's F62 project, the artist in charge of drawing the icons has made icon legends with a common root for the three Lock keys. That may be an interesting possibility to consider.
X