about characters wearing off

[typo]

hi,

my first post here. i am very familiar with mechanical keyboards though.

characters wearing off really bothers me. which is why i just replaced my g80-3000.

i looked closely at the das. i noticed that the paint was not actually in the laser indents. they missed and applied a lot of the paint to the tops of the keys.

so i decided to buy the filco.

solely in regard to the longevity of the  characters, did i make the right choice? keeping in mind what i stated above regarding the das.

thank you

[EverythingIBM]

I believe the filcos have way better labels than "das keyboard"s.

But if the keys are black, you'll always get wear... unless you coat them. You need to get a vintage-sage colour.

[typo]

wear is fine with me. after some years the keys on the cherry completely rubbed off. blanks. it was a grey board.

i am happy to know i made the right choice. i thought i did

otherwise this board is really nice imo. the only minor issue is the enter is a little sticky. i'll probably grease it.

what can i coat the keys with? acryl?

thank you

[Nonmouse]

Double-shot keys FTW.

[In Stereo!]

Well you could have baught only the keycaps ... or checked this thread: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6924

But which G80 keycaps did you wear off?

[typo]

the a and s were completely gone. i still have it. i am guessing it's a better board than the filco. maybe i can get keys from cherry?

[typo]

i guess i can coat them with acryl(or should i use something else?). if there is any reason to do so. i don't mind shiny, just not missing letters. i am surprised that i was correct in thinking the pad printed filco would last longer than the das. since these are cherry mx i suppose there is no problem getting some keys when i need them? are they universal? double shot or dye sub would obviously be superior.

i did not care for the font on the das either. the filco printing looks a lot cleaner. especially since das mostly missed the etching with the paint/epoxy. pretty sloppy imo.

[typo]

i saw that before. i am glad i did not get the das. the filco looks much nicer. i do not know why my cherry keys wore off but that board has thousands of hours on it. i guess nothing lasts forever.

anyways, should i spend the time to coat the filco with acryl. or is iit a waste of my time?
all i want is for it to not rub off for a few years of 4 hours a day.

thanks

[spolia optima]

The keys get faded because you touch yourself.
Faded keys teach you to touch-type.
Also, faded keys are 1337.
You know what to do.

[typo]

i used the acryl. it dried clear as expected. i put it on sort of thick. if it makes a difference time will tell. i never thought rubbed off keys were l33t. i do not look while i am typing of course. it just bothers me. i am anal like that,sorry. if anyone else wants to do it, it does not change the board. other than make the keys feel smother, but they still have grip.

thanks for the information guys.

[ch_123]

I thought lasered keys were good? I suppose the coating that makes them white will fade away... but won't you have black-on-black lettering then?

[Mental Hobbit]

characters wearing off really bothers me. which is why i just replaced my g80-3000.

What's the full type number? Like g80-3000ABCDEF.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

Kinesis Lasered Key.  As you can see the lasering is quite shallow and the infill labels can come off quite easily.

If that's what your numlock looks like, did you have any other keys left? Except scroll lock and pause?

[kishy]

If I may make a suggestion...don't sandblast M13 keys. Do the Unicomp rubber dome if anything...same printing technique, but practically value-less keys.

[typo]

i didn't want to start another thread and bother you guys.

my enter key is sticky. just a little. is there a way i can fix it? i really don't want to send it back.

thank you.

[Nonmouse]

i didn't want to start another thread and bother you guys.

my enter key is sticky. just a little. is there a way i can fix it? i really don't want to send it back.

thank you.

Knowing what keyboard helps, but I'd say try blasting it with air first, then 90%+ isopropyl alcohol if that doesn't work.

[typo]

it is a filco cherry mx blue. your recommendations worked.

thank you

[typo]

i tired the das today. glad i got the filco. i also tried the adesso and it seems even nicer than the filco! maybe they worked their initial issues out? this one had a windows 7 sticker on it. it was the model 135 and only $69!

honestly though i am sorry i did not get another real cherry g80-3000. they are $65 and i bet they are higher quality than the filco?

oh well, i am happy with what i have. my enter key is fixed/ my "j" is a drop crooked(the key not the letter) but it is all good.

thanks for all the advice guys. i learned a whole lot reading this forum.

[typo]

really, it did not seem anywhere near as bad as the review here suggested. maybe it is a newer version? the action was good, the workmanship was probably as good as the filco. one thing i did notice is if you twisted it, it did not flex as much as the filco. still, the filco is better i'd assume. for less than 70 bucks  there was nothing to complain about imo. i would have looked at it if it were $100 as well!

i think i am going to get the cherry again though. it was better quality than any of these "clones". mine still works fine, some letters just rubbed off. mine has maybe thousands of hours on it.  i do have topre envy of course lol.

before we know it you guys will have me collecting keyboards too

[typo]

you must have misunderstood me,sorry. i had a 10+ year old cherry g80-3000 that the a and s wore completely off of. i never had a das! i mentioned that i chose the filco over the das simply because i could not locate a das(there was a display but they had to order one to sell). i was asking if i made a good choice in choosing the filco over the das. it seemed the posts above agreed i did indeed. today i found a store 70 miles from me that had a das and adesso model 135. i went there to purchase a color laser printer that was on sale. i tried both the das and the adesso. now owning the filco, i actually feel the adesso is probably the best out of all except the cherry! i am guessing the adesso that got the rotten review here was an early model. they must have had to work the bugs out, just like das had to.  i am pretty sure even though i guess the adesso is better, in reality my filco is probably better. the adesso was plenty good though. the das did not seem as good. however i must be honest, the stores display das was pretty beat up and the adesso was not. so factor that in.

i was originally wondering in this post if the das's lettering would last longer than the filco's(pad printed). according to the posts above the filco should probably last longer.
the cherry lasted a very long time. i plan to get another cherry asap as i mentioned above and put the filco on a different machine.

when i looked at the das the first time and today, it appeared that they "missed" the laser indents with the paint/epoxy. i don't know if that means anything or not. the adesso is also pad printed but it looks nicer than the filco(bigger brighter letters).

someone asked what model my g80-3000 was. the sticker has worn off the bottom so i cannot tell. i am sure it is a g80-3000 of some sort though. it still works fine it is just missing two letters which bothers me. since the g80-3000 is only $65 now i'll just get another. meanwhile i am trying to talk myself into a topre. i spend 8-10 hours a day coding c# so i can probably justify it.

[keyb_gr]

First time I've heard of worn-off lettering on a Cherry board that should have something durable (I guess lasered - is it already a uni-color design, or does the lettering on very rarely used keys feel kinda rough?). Then again, from what you write it must have been through an awful lot of use. The worst case I've seen so far was a sample that was about 7 years old when I got it - lots and lots of black dust, and the numpad Enter was so worn the lettering had become a little thin at the lower end, even though the board itself worked perfectly. I ultimately gave that one to a technician who was used to G81s and thus wouldn't mind MX blacks. I guess it'll work fine for years to come.

[phillip]

I wore one letter off my filco in only a couple weeks, but it was just that one letter...on every keyboard I've ever owned, the D key wears down first.

[Nonmouse]

I wore one letter off my filco in only a couple weeks, but it was just that one letter...on every keyboard I've ever owned, the D key wears down first.

Tend to turn to the right in FPS, huh?

[phillip]

more like strafe, i turn with the mouse

[ricercar]

Maybe he's used to leading with his long finger ...

[typo]

my cherry board had seen many,many hours of heavy use. i can't fault it. i have read the only keys that will probably never wear off are ds but laser will.

you can see the letters a little but they are very thinned out. well, i guess you can see the laser indent. the paint is gone. it was a grey board with sort of brown letters.

i am surprised some people mentioned the filco would outlast the das. then again i take it the das is just not as good as the filco overall from what i have read here.

i called testors today. they said the only way to remove acryl is by sanding with a low grit or mineral spirits. i doubt my fingers abrading the board will wear the letters off any time soon then. some of you might want to look into brushing clear mat acryl onto your keys if they are pad printed. it is slightly noticeable but nothing i mind. it is very clear but it left a little residue where i applied too much. just coat them lightly with a model brush.

i wish filco used laser or ds but i see that has been askewd of them many times here.

i'll let you guys know in a few months if there is any wear.

i think overall the filco is nicer than the das and i am happy with it. i was surprised though that the adesso semmed to me to be far from the junk that was suggested here.

[typo]

guys, i just had a question. i was thinking of a cherry g80-11900 i can get for $100. it would displace the filco to another machine i rarely use(server). are the keycaps on the cherry smaller than those on the filco? what about the switch feel? i am used to mx blue and model f and m's. is it good for typing or is it mainly a pos board? i would not be using the pad either.  to be honest the only reason i am intrested is the better keys.

thank you.

[Arc'xer]

i am surprised some people mentioned the filco would outlast the das. then again i take it the das is just not as good as the filco overall from what i have read here.

It's not so much that the filco outlasts the das. Both are made by costar, it's that diatec tends to take additional steps to remove problem keyboards. And EKB does their own additional testing to check for any problems.

Though, I'm sure a few slip by the radar every once in a while.

[typo]

i was talking about a couple of folks mentioned the lettering would last longer. i was surprised they felt the filco's pad print would outlast the das's lasered. maybe that i mentioned the das' epoxy was not completely in the indents. they missed a little. so i could see that wearing off. what i really want is ds keys for the filco. so does everyone else, i read here lol.

to me the case of the das did not seem to be as sturdy as the filco. then again the case on the adesso was like a tank imo. that must have weighed 5lbs. i still don't understand how it got such a poor review here. unless they have improved it.

please don't overlook my above post about the g80-11900. if it has smaller keycaps than the filco, it is not for me.  anyways, i am plenty happy with the filco. for all i know, having put acryl on the keys it may last 20 years. i told testors what i used it for and they said it will not come off in my lifetime! we shall see...

thanks

ps, about typos and no shift. i am trying to learn to type in a 100% dark room. so please bear with me. i figured getting the filco was a good time to learn.

[Rusty Rat]

guys, i just had a question. i was thinking of a cherry g80-11900 i can get for $100. it would displace the filco to another machine i rarely use(server). are the keycaps on the cherry smaller than those on the filco? what about the switch feel? i am used to mx blue and model f and m's. is it good for typing or is it mainly a pos board? i would not be using the pad either.  to be honest the only reason i am intrested is the better keys.

thank you.

I have a couple of them. Two hours typing on them is my tops, they are just linear - absolutely no feel. If you are coding for 8 hours a day they will drive you nuts.

I thought the key caps were interchangeable with the Filco, more knowledgeable people should know.

[typo]

thank you guys. if the keys are interchangeable, i will get a used cherry board and i am all set. actually that is sort of dumb really. i guess i should wait and see if the keys even wear off the filco. testors said with the apllication of the acryl it is doubtful they will ever wear off. plus i like the filco's font. maybe someone could try an abrasion test with acryl on the letters. that might be useful for a lot of people. i do not have the means to do it or i would do it for you guys.

i would not know what to say about the adesso. i used it 10 minutes. all i can say is it seemed at least as nice as the filco and nicer than the das.

i am glad i did not go get the 11900 then. thank you.

[ricercar]

a cherry g80-11900 i can get for $100.

Another note on the G80-11900. $100 is WAY too much, even for New In Box. I got more than one NIB 11900 for well under $50 including shipping.

[typo]

wow. my salesman wanted $152!  he offered me $100 since we buy in volume. geez, i guess i was getting ripped off after all. thank you for letting me know this!

meanwhile i really am happy with the filco. i know he won't go less than $50 so i'll just stick with the filco untill i get the topre.

[ricercar]

Well, I'm referring to eBay pricing, and he's probably got a retail price list.

[typo]

the keys are getting shiny already. i suppose that is the acryl getting polished and not the normal course of shiny keys. as long as the letters do not wear off i achieved what i wished with the acryl. i will be sure to let you guys know if they wear off at some point.

[washuai]

Aplogies if I missed it, but what does acryl fell like compared to original coating?  Smoother, more grip, or what?

[typo]

it is strange it feels smooth if you type but if you rub the key it has more grip. like 1000 grit sandpaper maybe. if you use it just dont use too much. brush on a light coat.

[typo]

the acryl wore down and i cannot even tell it is on there. except for a little more grip than the stock keys. i think this was a great idea. so long as the letters actually last longer.

[keyb_gr]

I guess they use something else than acryl for the "decal type" lettering then... PBT or PP maybe?

[typo]

they obviously do not use acryl. you can see on boards with keys that have only the legend coated and not the whole key what they use is much thicker. like on a microsoft or logitech. acryl is one of my secret weapons. you can apply it to fragile surfaces and they will not wear out for many years. i discovered it when i built models. it is a model building product to protect decals. when wet is is thinner than water. i applied mine a little too thick on some keys. the ones i just brushed over it is unnoticeable. when dry it is very hard to remove. except with strong solvents or heavy sandpaper.

[typo]

i just wanted to ask if i am doing something very wrong. even with acryl i wore some legends completely off the filco and adesso in less than 40 hours of use on both of them!
this does not make sense to me because acryl is very hard to remove, especially if only friction is used.

furthermore, one should not even have to go coat the keys on $100+ keyboards with acryl to begin with!

i have worn the legends off of every pad printed board and even lasered cherrys i have had in no time at all. someone mentioned body chemistry. all i can figure is that has to be the issue. i am very taken aback that i wore through acryl!

if it helps to figure this out, i have worn the finish off of logitech gaming mice. that took a lot longer though.

i am really sad about this.

i have no problem getting a topre but i prefer cherry mx blues.

so here is the bottom line: is there a way i can obtain double shot keys for these two boards that will not cost a lot of money? are cherry mx keys universal?

thank you

[typo]

thanks ripster. actually i would not be surprised if acryl is more chemical and abrasion resistant then whatever keyboard manufacturers use on the keys. it is some heavy duty stuff. still, i managed to wear through it. i put acryl over a paint chip on a tile floor 17 years ago and have cleaned it with solvents many times. it has yet to wear off.  it does not even seem to be worn off my keyboards. yet the letters vanished. very strange indeed. i don't think they use acryl because .5 ounce is $15. i guess i wasted my time using it anyways.

as i asked above, are cherry mx keys universal? i could grab a old cherry board and replace all the keys on the filco and adesso. or some other source for inexpensive double shot keys that will fit the filco and adesso? i have worn the paint out of lasered keys but that took a lot longer. like 4 years.
i might have to go with a cherry board even though i think they are poorly made compared to the adesso and especially the filco.

[Nonmouse]

At a guess, I'd say that the acryl softened the printed legend, and then wasn't thick enough/hadn't fully dried/both and wore through quickly, taking the legends with it.  I haven't heard anyone else complain about the legends on any boards wearing through that quickly.

As a solution, I'd probably sand off the rest of the legends, find decals of a font I linked, put them on and then coat them with several layers of acryl, thinned clear nail polish or lacquer, making sure to let them dry completely between coats.

Or, alternatively, dig up some double-shot or blank keys.

[Nonmouse]

as i asked above, are cherry mx keys universal? i could grab a old cherry board and replace all the keys on the filco and adesso. or some other source for inexpensive double shot keys that will fit the filco and adesso?

The mounting points are universal; the profiles and key shapes are not.  Filcos are slightly taller than Cherry keys- I'm not positive about Adesso, but I think they're the same height as Cherry. Cherry MY (G81-) keys are also essentially interchangeable with MX switches, though some people have complained of them fitting too tight or too loose on MX switches.

[typo]

thank you. if you are correct, i guess my great idea was a screwup. however, acryl is made to be applied over decals on models. i assume the legends are rubber squeezed through a die, aka pad printing. i guess it is possible acryl eats rubber. i could call testors and ask them.  acryl is an intresting product. it is water based while wet and dries to a laquer base.

i'll see if cherry keys fit the adesso. i have some old g80 and g81 boards.

the adesso wore quicker than the filco. like in a day. the legends on that board are junk. otherwise i found the board to be ok for the most part.

[typo]

thanks ripster. that seems like a big pain but i'll see what i can gather up.

[Morning Song]

Girls can wear down pad printed boards too! I have an "ergonomic" Belkin rubberdome special that started wearing down after a couple years. D, K and L are completely gone. S F G, J O and ; are all partially worn off.

[typo]

the pigmented india ink seems to have solved my problem. it came out great imo. of course time will tell. it is burnt into the plastic so i don't think it is going anywhere soon.

acryl was probably a bad idea in retrospect.

i think the adesso board is real nice now. they should make better keys from the factory and have better qc. then they could compete with das and filco i guess. i doubt they care. i called their us office and they blew me off. i just wanted to know how to use the media keys(i figured it out).

thank you for all the advice you guys offered me here.

[aegrotatio]

i just wanted to know how to use the media keys(i figured it out).

Oh, that's right, I don't remember if I ever used the media keys.  You hold down the Windows key or something?

[TexasFlood]

the pigmented india ink seems to have solved my problem. it came out great imo. of course time will tell. it is burnt into the plastic so i don't think it is going anywhere soon.

acryl was probably a bad idea in retrospect.

i think the adesso board is real nice now. they should make better keys from the factory and have better qc. then they could compete with das and filco i guess. i doubt they care. i called their us office and they blew me off. i just wanted to know how to use the media keys(i figured it out).

thank you for all the advice you guys offered me here.

Picture? :becky: