Author Topic: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations  (Read 8482 times)

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Offline macclack

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 15:28:10 »
Interested

Point of clarification:
Does Matias produce the switches themselves (vertical) or do they have a supplier? In the case that they source their switches from a factory maybe it would be possible to go factory-direct and see if the factory would be willing to attempt complicated Alps.

Offline hiddensong

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 18 January 2020, 20:07:57 »
Curious how the IC is going after 2-3 months. Hopefully a gazillion responses in the 500+ at $2 each pool so this gets done! Lolz. Seriously though....how’s it going?

Offline TheAutoManCan

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 18 January 2020, 23:38:16 »
Interested

Point of clarification:
Does Matias produce the switches themselves (vertical) or do they have a supplier? In the case that they source their switches from a factory maybe it would be possible to go factory-direct and see if the factory would be willing to attempt complicated Alps.
Gaote provides final assembly of Matias switches.

Offline TurboTombo

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 27 January 2020, 06:28:31 »
I would gladly get my hands on these!!

Offline Cods

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #54 on: Fri, 07 February 2020, 15:57:33 »
Interested! Filled out the form. Cheers.
Model M Industrial, SSK, Unicomp 104, Code TKL MX Green, FC660M MX Green + Clear + White + Grey, FC660C Topre 45g, MagicForce 68 USB and Bluetooth, Whitefox... wait, I think I need an intervention.
Too much SA is never enough.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 12:25:26 »
If you pull this off, it could change the direction of every aspect of the enthusiast keyboard market entirely, overnight. People make a big deal out of MX-compatible stems, but if there were newly-manufactured complicated Alps clones of the same quality as the originals, Cherry MX stems themselves could go extinct within a decade. Alps caps would take over the market, so would PCB designs.

If you build it, they will come.

I finally signed up, just now. Good luck to you, and godspeed.

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 12:33:28 »
Lol. Let's be honest here. If this works out, there will most likely end up just being two camps of fans. Just like linear vs tactile or wkl vs hhkb vs STD or iso vs ansi

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 13:13:09 »
Lol. Let's be honest here. If this works out, there will most likely end up just being two camps of fans. Just like linear vs tactile or wkl vs hhkb vs STD or iso vs ansi

Alps vs ... what? Topre? Maybe? It would be a small subsection. Is there anything else that has a somewhat significant following that offers something unique that Alps switches can't do better?

Offline 5alt5haker

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 13:21:55 »
If you pull this off, it could change the direction of every aspect of the enthusiast keyboard market entirely, overnight. People make a big deal out of MX-compatible stems, but if there were newly-manufactured complicated Alps clones of the same quality as the originals, Cherry MX stems themselves could go extinct within a decade. Alps caps would take over the market, so would PCB designs.

If you build it, they will come.

I finally signed up, just now. Good luck to you, and godspeed.
even though I believe that this would be a game changer, I still think that people would gravitate towards mx switches because it would be too much of a hassle to switch to a new type of switch

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 13:26:39 »
Lol. Let's be honest here. If this works out, there will most likely end up just being two camps of fans. Just like linear vs tactile or wkl vs hhkb vs STD or iso vs ansi

Alps vs ... what? Topre? Maybe? It would be a small subsection. Is there anything else that has a somewhat significant following that offers something unique that Alps switches can't do better?
I mean it's all subjective man. Lol. Sure I've used some alps switches that felt amazing, but I've really likes some MX switches too. I've also used some similarly colored Alps switches that felt like garbage. Then there's price, availability, variety, quality of clones, what would be legacy mx cap sets, etc. A complicated Alps switch is going to be more expensive for a long time, especially with the complexity of the switch. Personally I don't enjoy topre switches, but just because I don't, I don't assume everyone else doesn't, and that they won't exist in 10 years.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 February 2020, 13:29:37 by Zeelobby »

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 14:00:35 »
even though I believe that this would be a game changer, I still think that people would gravitate towards mx switches because it would be too much of a hassle to switch to a new type of switch

I have desoldered every switch, and swapped them to box thick clicks, on 5 keyboards now, and those are just my modern stand-in for Alps SKCM. They'll just have to feel them to believe.

I mean it's all subjective man. Lol. Sure I've used some alps switches that felt amazing, but I've really likes some MX switches too. I've also used some similarly colored Alps switches that felt like garbage. Then there's price, availability, variety, quality of clones, what would be legacy mx cap sets, etc. A complicated Alps switch is going to be more expensive for a long time, especially with the complexity of the switch. Personally I don't enjoy topre switches, but just because I don't, I don't assume everyone else doesn't, and that they won't exist in 10 years.

I've never tried Topre, and I don't particularly care to, though I would love to if a board happened to be around to feel. I actually was suggesting Topre as one of the switches that would maybe survive the new switch order, since Topre is a whole different animal entirely. It doesn't really compete with Cherry MX, and compatibles, anyway. I love box jades and navies. I would still drop them like a bad habit for new production SKCM blues. I think that would be the case for most people who like clicky switches, and
I don't think it would take much to win over the linear and tactile crowd either once those who haven't tried Alps don't have to try to scavenge recycling facilities and weed through Ebay listings of boards that look like they were dredged out of a lake with descriptions like, "Rare, great condition. Clickety clack keyboard." just to experience them.

They do get scratchy too easily compared to the usual MX or clone, due to dust/dirt. If the board doesn't look fairly clean, many of the switches may already need an overhaul, if they're not already too far gone. We're enthusiasts though. If you take care of them, they take care of you.
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 February 2020, 14:07:03 by Maledicted »

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 15:34:02 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #62 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 15:40:43 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #63 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 16:22:12 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.
But some complex Alps switches have 11 individual parts. That's still twice the number boxes have. Now I feel like we've thrown logic out the window. These are gonna be pricey for a while.

And we're also completely ignoring the gaming keyboard market (who outnumber us significantly) who companies will gladly sell cheaper mx switches to forever. Sure their $500 pro keyboard will have the new Alps.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #64 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 16:57:01 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.
But some complex Alps switches have 11 individual parts. That's still twice the number boxes have. Now I feel like we've thrown logic out the window. These are gonna be pricey for a while.

And we're also completely ignoring the gaming keyboard market (who outnumber us significantly) who companies will gladly sell cheaper mx switches to forever. Sure their $500 pro keyboard will have the new Alps.

What is your idea of pricey? We're talking about plastic and tiny bits of folded/stamped metal. $500 pro keyboard? lol. Why?

I haven't ignored the gaming keyboard market, especially since many of the cool new contactless switches have been breaking out directly into that market. For many, that's also what starts them on their path to where we are. I don't know that we would even be talking about resurrecting Alps switches if not for the resurgence of mechanical keyboards into the mainstream, spearheaded by the PC gaming market. We are entering a keyboard renaissance, the lack of which being what allowed Cherry to corner the market.

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #65 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 17:42:09 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.
But some complex Alps switches have 11 individual parts. That's still twice the number boxes have. Now I feel like we've thrown logic out the window. These are gonna be pricey for a while.

And we're also completely ignoring the gaming keyboard market (who outnumber us significantly) who companies will gladly sell cheaper mx switches to forever. Sure their $500 pro keyboard will have the new Alps.

What is your idea of pricey? We're talking about plastic and tiny bits of folded/stamped metal. $500 pro keyboard? lol. Why?

I haven't ignored the gaming keyboard market, especially since many of the cool new contactless switches have been breaking out directly into that market. For many, that's also what starts them on their path to where we are. I don't know that we would even be talking about resurrecting Alps switches if not for the resurgence of mechanical keyboards into the mainstream, spearheaded by the PC gaming market. We are entering a keyboard renaissance, the lack of which being what allowed Cherry to corner the market.
Cause why not. They're "miracle" switches. The $500 was just including the gaming market markup. And Alps switches will easily start at at least 4x the cost of a basic cherry switch. And at least twice as expensive as a novelty mx switch.

Clearly your just an optimistic person. Just don't be shocked if mx is still around in 10 years. Lol. I'd love to be wrong.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #66 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 18:34:12 »
I mean I get it. But there's no way MX switches would just disappear. Look how many brands and types of products are supported that are just objectively inferior. And again, price. MX will always be cheaper than Alps. And people will use them just because of that. I'm not saying having Alps back would be bad. It'd be amazing. But there's still definitely market room for mx switches, PCBs and keycaps. I do think Alps feel better, but it's also a ton of hype. I have mx boards now that I wouldn't bother putting Alps on if I could. They feel great the way they are haha.

Don't get me wrong. I really hope this happens. But it's a little early to ring the death bell of cherry switches.

That's why I gave them 10 years. I don't think that Alps would cost significantly more than Cherry MX, even initially, with enough support from the community. Kailh is selling box switches for very reasonable prices, and those are a completely different design instead of a straight-up clone, they're not alone either.

I don't honestly know that I would keep any of my Cherry compatible boards, over time, if I had the option of brand new Alps switches/boards.
But some complex Alps switches have 11 individual parts. That's still twice the number boxes have. Now I feel like we've thrown logic out the window. These are gonna be pricey for a while.

And we're also completely ignoring the gaming keyboard market (who outnumber us significantly) who companies will gladly sell cheaper mx switches to forever. Sure their $500 pro keyboard will have the new Alps.

What is your idea of pricey? We're talking about plastic and tiny bits of folded/stamped metal. $500 pro keyboard? lol. Why?

I haven't ignored the gaming keyboard market, especially since many of the cool new contactless switches have been breaking out directly into that market. For many, that's also what starts them on their path to where we are. I don't know that we would even be talking about resurrecting Alps switches if not for the resurgence of mechanical keyboards into the mainstream, spearheaded by the PC gaming market. We are entering a keyboard renaissance, the lack of which being what allowed Cherry to corner the market.
Cause why not. They're "miracle" switches. The $500 was just including the gaming market markup. And Alps switches will easily start at at least 4x the cost of a basic cherry switch. And at least twice as expensive as a novelty mx switch.

Clearly your just an optimistic person. Just don't be shocked if mx is still around in 10 years. Lol. I'd love to be wrong.

Nobody would pay $500. I wouldn't even pay that. You can get a new production Model F in a brick of a zinc chassis for $400. Why would it conceivably cost 4x as much as Cherry MX? Box switches already cost less than Cherry.

I'm not an optimistic person at all. In general, I would consider myself a pessimist, if anything. I just think the difference in feel is enough to change the entire market once Alps switches get wider exposure.

Offline Zeelobby

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #67 on: Wed, 12 February 2020, 19:23:42 »
I mean I didn't pull 4x out of my hat for no reason. It's simply logical that a switch with 4x more pieces is going to be 4x more expensive. Probably should be more considering the complexity of the design and the amount of development and tweaking that will be needed to get it to be equal to the previous ones. Will they be cheaper in 10 years, sure. Are they going to cost the same as MX Cherry Blues on the day of release, rofl, hell no.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #68 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 12:47:55 »
I mean I didn't pull 4x out of my hat for no reason. It's simply logical that a switch with 4x more pieces is going to be 4x more expensive. Probably should be more considering the complexity of the design and the amount of development and tweaking that will be needed to get it to be equal to the previous ones. Will they be cheaper in 10 years, sure. Are they going to cost the same as MX Cherry Blues on the day of release, rofl, hell no.

I would think they would be at least as cheap as Cherry blues, since huge portions of the cost are going to a well-established, bloated corporation focused primarily on revenue numbers, and which can set whatever price they like and get it, since they have a monopoly in the industrial and retail keyboard markets.

The only real point you have is dialing them in to perfectly replicate the originals. which is a problem modern switches obviously don't have. The only reason parts numbers should make any major difference is if Alps switches were significantly more time consuming/difficult to assemble than Cherry, when it comes to labor costs, unless the magical mystery Alps lube turns out to be some kind unobtainable precious element turned to a powder. We're talking about paper thin stamped metal, and plastic.

Adjusted for inflation, Ellipse is selling zinc chassis Model Fs for half of what IBM was selling them for, with low-quality pot metal cases to boot.

Even if it costs a little more than Cherry, it wouldn't make much difference. There's no rational reason for it to cost significantly more, especially when you can still just find authentic boards to harvest them from (although that's heresy in my book) for less than that.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #69 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 13:47:27 »
Will they be ruined if I sneeze too near to them like the real thing?

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #70 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 13:48:42 »
But in all seriousness, I'd try them if they do happen  :thumb:

Offline mountainblocks

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 14:00:17 »
What we really need are new varieties of Alps stem keycaps. Until that happens, I can't see there being much of a market for recreated switches.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 14:01:47 »
What we really need are new varieties of Alps stem keycaps. Until that happens, I can't see there being much of a market for recreated switches.

Agreed tbh. Thin, weird layout, yellowing, or ugly all seem to be something associated with most alps caps.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #73 on: Thu, 13 February 2020, 20:45:26 »
Will they be ruined if I sneeze too near to them like the real thing?

Probably. Wear your Coronavirus mask when in the same room as it and store the board in a vacuum bag when not in use.

It does seriously make me wonder if I should bother using my one good DC-2014 at work, but it should be good if I cover it when not in use.

What we really need are new varieties of Alps stem keycaps. Until that happens, I can't see there being much of a market for recreated switches.

I have at least 2, maybe 3, retro boards that are prime for a switch swap so that I don't have to bother trying to clean them (and I would rather have blues than yellows or greens anyway).

You've got a bit of a chicken and an egg problem there otherwise. You can't expect manufacturers to make caps for stems that are all but extinct outside of the Matias niche, because as such, there's not a huge demand. People with vintage boards already have caps for them. In my mind, we need the switches, and interest in them, before we get caps. Best case scenario is coordinated/simultaneous development and release.

Offline Ruediger87

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Re: [IC] New Blue Alps SKCM Re-Creations
« Reply #74 on: Sat, 15 February 2020, 13:23:06 »
This would be amazing if it happens! It would be interesting to see if you could actually manage to copy everything exactly the same as the Alps' design - I have a feeling that this would be immensely hard. Either way, I just filled up the interest form and have got my fingers crossed. Alps are amazing.