Author Topic: Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?  (Read 31785 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline clickclack

  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 942
  • Board Chow EXTRAORDINAIRE
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 23 June 2010, 21:03:15 »
Quote from: noctua;195670
Phenomenal, you have found the Genesis of Geekhack-ology..

Well howbout that =)

Quote from: phoenix;195761
Chuck didn't recognize it and guessed it's a very early terminal keyboard, which it clearly isn't. Knowing the part number would help.

Bummer, I was hoping it would bring something similar out of the cobwebs. The part number should be interesting though.

Quote from: aegrotatio;195765
Very interesting and no Function keys, either.
So when you push the spring down with a pencil eraser, the spring buckles and the foot clicks?
The lack of forthcoming, in-focus pictures and part number info would make anyone else call bullsh!t by this time.

Function Schmunction, I would still love to use it with a laptop =D
The pencil with earaser gave the same feed back as it would with a regular buckling spring. Perhaps a bit more precise and with less springalingaling wobble sound.
The lack of high res pics would make me call BS if I were you. But they are mostly in focus with the exception of the when I fell or slipped.


Quote from: sixty;195797
Almost guessing this has been modded and cut out of a model M by someone or a third party company or something...... More pictures please!.

Sounds about right, and I will definately show some more pics when I get to it.

Quote from: sixty;195797

PS: Looks like there are also green LEDs under both of the CTRL keys? Check the close up picture.

They look more like screw heads from the picture. Hmmm... I don't see the "green" that you mentioned but I think I see other colors elsewhere that may be of some interest, perhaps?
862+ keyboards and counting!   R.I.P.ster          Vendor link ->Clack Factory

Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 23 June 2010, 21:22:41 »
Very unique find.  Wonder who made that little jewel?
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 June 2010, 11:59:39 by TexasFlood »

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 23 June 2010, 22:12:55 »
I will be interested to see if there is, say, a label on the back of the keyboard.

Also, remember that a PS/2 connector is a standard Mini-DIN plug, so there's a possibility that a keyboard could have the same plug, but not be compatible. If it's using the electronics from a Model M keyboard, that would be one thing; otherwise, there's a risk of destroying the keyboard and/or the computer it's connected to - since it was designed to work with a custom label printer.

Of course, you might also open up the label printer, and find a PC motherboard inside, another way to validate that this is a PC keyboard, that can safely be used as one, albeit with apparently some keys unavailable.

Quote from: phoenix;195635
Someone (everybody) please call Unicomp and tell them to just make this keyboard again with more modifier keys.
They could certainly add modifier keys simply by using their new keyboard with the Windows keys added as a basis. The result would, of course, be exactly like a Miniguru, or the keyboard coming out of China.

However, if for some reason, more modifier keys were not possible, it is not the end of the world. I give you:

 
Code: [Select]
-----------------------------------------------------------
|   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |       |
|ESC|F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|F11|F12|       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|     |   |   |   |PG |   |   |CAP|WIN| < |   |   |   |     |
|     |   |INS|HOM|UP |   |   |LK |MNU| > |   |   |   |     |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Ctrl  |NUM|   |   |PG |   |   |   |   | ^ | | |   |        |
|      |LK |DEL|END|DN |   |   |<- | ->| | | v |   |        |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|        |   |PRT|SCL|PAU|   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|        |   |SC |LK |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Win  |   |     |                           |     |   |Fn   |
|     |   |     |                           |     |   |     |
 -----     ---------------------------------------     -----


Use the Caps Lock key for Ctrl, one of the two original Ctrl keys for the Windows Shift key, and the other for the Fn key, and, although it isn't ideal only having one of each of those, it is manageable.

On top of that, having both Alt keys lets you use the one of them that becomes AltGr in some foreign layouts.

Or, one could even do this:

 
Code: [Select]
-----------------------------------------------------------
|   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |       |
|ESC|F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|F11|F12|       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Fn   |BTB|   |   |PG |   |   |CAP|WIN| < | | |   |   |Fn   |
|     |TAB|INS|HOM|UP |   |   |LK |MNU| > | \ |   |   |     |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Ctrl  |NUM|   |   |PG |   |   |   |   | ^ | | |   |        |
|      |LK |DEL|END|DN |   |   |<- | ->| | | v |   |        |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|        |   |PRT|SCL|PAU|   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|        |   |SC |LK |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Win  |   |     |                           |     |   |Win  |
|     |   |     |                           |     |   |     |
 -----     ---------------------------------------     -----


Two Fn keys and two Windows shift keys. Making the Tab key an Fn-shift, though, is bad enough; making the |\ key an Fn-shift, for people who type in file names by hand instead of clicking on them, will be inconvenient.

A compromise would be to use the two old Ctrl key positions for two Fn keys, use the Tab key for only one Windows Shift, and thereby leave |\ alone. Since many keyboards nowadays only have one Windows Shift, this should be acceptable. (Two Fn keys seem to be required, as there are important Fn-shifts on both sides of the keyboard.)

That looks like this:

 
Code: [Select]
-----------------------------------------------------------
|   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |       |
|ESC|F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|F11|F12|       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Win  |BTB|   |   |PG |   |   |CAP|WIN| < |   |   |   |     |
|     |TAB|INS|HOM|UP |   |   |LK |MNU| > |   |   |   |     |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Ctrl  |NUM|   |   |PG |   |   |   |   | ^ | | |   |        |
|      |LK |DEL|END|DN |   |   |<- | ->| | | v |   |        |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|        |   |PRT|SCL|PAU|   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|        |   |SC |LK |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Fn   |   |     |                           |     |   |Fn   |
|     |   |     |                           |     |   |     |
 -----     ---------------------------------------     -----


I think this compromise is the best choice. But there is still another viable alternative.

Make the ~` key an Fn-shifted key, moving |\ up to its position. That way, two Fn keys, two Windows Shift keys, and an actual |\ key instead of one reached with an Fn-shift are all possible.

That would look like this:

 
Code: [Select]
-----------------------------------------------------------
| | |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |       |
| \ |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|F11|F12|       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Fn   |BTB|   |   |PG |   |   |CAP|WIN| < | ~ |   |   |Fn   |
|     |TAB|INS|HOM|UP |   |   |LK |MNU| > | ` |   |   |     |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Ctrl  |NUM|   |   |PG |   |   |   |   | ^ | | |   |        |
|      |LK |DEL|END|DN |   |   |<- | ->| | | v |   |        |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|        |   |PRT|SCL|PAU|   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|        |   |SC |LK |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Win  |   |     |                           |     |   |Win  |
|     |   |     |                           |     |   |     |
 -----     ---------------------------------------     -----


with the key changed to |\ also being the one Fn-shifted to ESC, it no longer being possible to show both things on the diagram.
« Last Edit: Wed, 23 June 2010, 22:52:50 by quadibloc »

Offline kriminal

  • Posts: 424
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 23 June 2010, 22:14:00 »
*drools* muss ... google... this...

*google dont fail me now*!!
Geekhacked Filco FKBN87M/EB modified with Brown, black and blue cherries, doubleshot keycaps
Deck KBA-BL82 with Black cherries
Cherry G84-4100LCMDK-0 Cherry ML switches
Cherry G80-8200hpdus-2 Brown cherries
IBM Lexmark 51G8572 Model M Keyboard
Geekhacked Siig Minitouch KB1948
IBM Model M Mini 1397681

Offline clickclack

  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 942
  • Board Chow EXTRAORDINAIRE
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 23 June 2010, 23:57:48 »
Quote from: TexasFlood;195871
Very unique find.  Wonder who made that little jewel?

I bet the label will end up giving a clue.

Quote from: quadibloc;195875
....  there's a risk of destroying the keyboard and/or the computer it's connected to - since it was designed to work with a custom label printer.

WAS it? post #42
You showed some really, really neato layouts there! Were they for keyswaping or a new circuit design? I don't know anything about key swaping programs like autohotkey (name?)  but if it works could something like that have some use on this board? After all I would only want to use it as a supplemental board to my laptop.


Quote from: kriminal;195876
*drools* muss ... google... this...
*google dont fail me now*!!

And fail it will... LoL.
I figure if Chuck (Unicomp) put his two cents in and it's a no go then I would have to go with that.

I can't wait to use it, or try and use it =P
862+ keyboards and counting!   R.I.P.ster          Vendor link ->Clack Factory

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 08:19:47 »
Quote from: clickclack;195883
You showed some really, really neato layouts there! Were they for keyswaping or a new circuit design?
Thank you. I would say they are mainly for a new circuit design. After all, the idea is to get around not having extra keys by using the existing Caps Lock and Tab keys, and possibly even the |\ key, as shift keys. Without N-key rollover, the keyboard matrix would very likely need to be arranged so that using those keys as shift keys wouldn't cause ghosting, as those keys weren't originally planned to be used as shift keys.

Without a new circuit design, I suppose that the best that can be done is to turn one of the Ctrl keys into an Fn key, and live without the Windows Shift.

With a new circuit design, considering the layouts examined there, perhaps the best possibility might be this:

Code: [Select]
-----------------------------------------------------------
| | |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |       |
| \ |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|F11|F12|       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Fn   |BTB|   |   |PG |   |   |CAP|WIN| < | ~ |   |   |Fn   |
|     |TAB|INS|HOM|UP |   |   |LK |MNU| > | ` |   |   |     |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Win   |NUM|   |   |PG |   |   |   |   | ^ | | |   |        |
|      |LK |DEL|END|DN |   |   |<- | ->| | | v |   |        |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|        |   |PRT|SCL|PAU|   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|        |   |SC |LK |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Ctrl |   |     |                           |     |   |Ctrl |
|     |   |     |                           |     |   |     |
 -----     ---------------------------------------     -----

Only one Windows Shift key is more acceptable than only one Control key; as well, leaving the Control keys in their original positions facilitates using them for "Reset" and "Enter" (when the normal Enter key becomes Carriage Return) if one is heading into 122-key terminal emulation territory.

Then you might have something like this:

Code: [Select]
-----------------------------------------------------------
| | |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |       |
| \ |F13|F14|F15|F16|F17|F18|F19|F20|F21|F22|F23|F24|       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Fn   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |Fn   |
|     |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|F11|F12|     |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Win   |BTB|   |   |PG |PRT|PAU|   |   | ^ | | |???|RETURN  |
|      |TAB|INS|HOM|UP |SC |BRK|<- | ->| | | v |   |        |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|        |NUM|   |   |PG |SCL|RUL|CAP|WIN| < | ~ |          |
|        |LK |DEL|END|DN |LK |   |LK |MNU| > | ` |          |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Ctrl |   |     |                           |     |   |Ctrl |
|RESET|   |     |                           |     |   |ENTER|
 -----     ---------------------------------------     -----

where ??? stands for the extra key on the numeric keypad, and RUL the key in the middle of the cursor cluster. Of course, that still leaves out the ten keys to the left of the main typing area;  since a 122-key keyboard doesn't have a Windows Shift key, perhaps that could be used as a second function shift to produce those keys instead when in that mode.

Come to think of it, this would probably be better:

Code: [Select]
-----------------------------------------------------------
| | |PF |PF |PF |PF |PF |PF |PF |PF |PF |PF |PF |PF |       |
| \ |1  |2  |3  |4  |5  |6  |7  |8  |9  |10 |11 |12 |       |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Fn   |BTB|   |   |PG |SCL|RUL|CAP|WIN| < | ~ |   |   |Fn   |
|     |TAB|INS|HOM|UP |LK |   |LK |MNU| > | ` |   |   |     |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|PF13- |NUM|   |   |PG |PRT|PAU|   |   | ^ | | |???|RETURN  |
|PF24  |LK |DEL|END|DN |SC |   |<- | ->| | | v |   |        |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|        |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |          |
|        |F1 |F2 |F3 |F4 |F5 |F6 |F7 |F8 |F9 |F10|          |
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|Ctrl |   |     |                           |     |   |Ctrl |
|RESET|   |     |                           |     |   |ENTER|
 -----     ---------------------------------------     -----

as it keeps most of the original design, and treats the F13 to F24 keys as less used than the ten keys to the left of the keyboard. The function keys are now shown as PF1 through PF24, and F1 through F10 refer to the keys to the left of the keyboard, since different terminal keyboards use varying designations for them.

If you really need to do everything at once, of course, the PF13-PF24 shift can be moved to the right hand Fn key, where |\ was originally, so that the original Caps Lock key can still be used as the Windows Shift.

And now I've got an even better idea. Use Caps Lock as the Win key, keep two Fn keys, but make the Fn shift of the }] into "+12 lock".

When the keyboard is used as a 122-key keyboard, it changes PF1 through PF12 into PF13 through PF24.

When it's used as a 105-key keyboard, it changes 12 multimedia keys into F1 through F12. The positions labelled as F1 through F10 can be another 10 multimedia keys.

Yes; taking this keyboard design, without keys in the Windows key positions, and placing Mt. Ossa upon the summit of Mt. Olympus to get it to function as a normal 105-key keyboard was not enough for me. Instead, I insist on piling Pelion on Ossa to have it function as a keyboard with a ridiculous number of keys like 122, and still be (relatively) easy and convenient to use.

Even with such a capable layout as the starting point, though, programmability is still needed. Somebody is going to have an urgent need for the right Windows Shift key. I can try to design a keyboard which is very good for a lot of people, even under outrageously limited circumstances, but ultimately different people have different preferences, are in different situations, and use different software.
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 June 2010, 13:33:50 by quadibloc »

Offline sam113101

  • Posts: 213
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 13:42:25 »
Quote from: Brodie337;195177
JUSTSTEALTHEFUGGINKEYBOARDALREADYFORTHELOVEOFGODTAKEITTAKEITTAKEITNAO!!!!

I'm sorry... I forgot my Prozac.

EDIT: Hmm... The forum put a space in that sentence that I didn't.
this is mainly because long words could make that page's width 549874653165 px long, so long words are split into 50 characters words (if you type something 187 characters long, it will have 3 spaces)

see

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Hoping to hear from you again, your dearest friend, sam113101.

Offline noctua

  • Posts: 188
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #57 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 15:27:05 »
more than 50 characters, no problem.. ;-)

Code: [Select]
juststealthefugginkeyboardalreadyfortheloveofgodtakeittakeittakeitnao!!!!

Selfmade Keyboard I (done)
DT225 CH Trackball

Selfmade Keyboard II (95% completed)
L-Trac CST2545W-RC Trackball

both use Cherry MX Blue switches, an Teensy++ controller and have an Colemak layout

Offline spolia optima

  • Posts: 580
  • Location: On the shores of the cosmic ocean...
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 21:00:13 »
you are a golden god
i want to touch... that keyboard... so... bad...
no, that's too much... i'm not worthy
if you touch it, can i take a picture of myself with your hand?
now i have a tummy ache :(
keyboards!

Offline spolia optima

  • Posts: 580
  • Location: On the shores of the cosmic ocean...
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 21:19:25 »
a few things:

- the lighted caps key... has this shown up in any other M's?
- it looks like an SDL cable, but it's much shorter than anything I've seen. Can't be any more than 4 or 5 feet stretched. Maybe the length of the cord is some clue? Lots of terminal keyboards have shorty cables like that.
- to unicomp: this keyboard. in my mailbox. NAO. you can have my first born son if you need a stout child for R&D or whatever.
keyboards!

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 22:54:23 »
This discussion has been so inspiring that I decided to take one of the proposed layouts I presented, with a few minor tweaks, and draw a pretty picture of it:

Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 23:02:55 »
What happened to `~ ? And tab?


What did happen to Tab?

Daily Driver: Noppoo Choc Mini
Currently own: IBM Model M 1391401 1988,  XArmor U9 prototype
Previously owned: Ricercar SPOS, IBM M13 92G7461 1994, XArmor U9BL, XArmor U9W prototype, Cherry G80-8200LPDUS, Cherry G84-4100, Compaq MX-11800, Chicony KB-5181 (SMK Monterey), Reveal KB-7061, Cirque Wave Keyboard (ergonomic rubber domes), NMB RT101 (rubber dome), Dell AT101W

Offline spolia optima

  • Posts: 580
  • Location: On the shores of the cosmic ocean...
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 23:18:18 »
~ would be a great product name btw
keyboards!

Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 23:18:46 »
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;196099
What happened to `~ ? And tab?


What did happen to Tab?

Show Image


~? I believe my home directory is there.  :wink:

Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 24 June 2010, 23:19:18 »
Quote from: spolia optima;196115
~ would be a great product name btw

There would be endless arguments about if it's pronounced "till-dee" or "tilled".
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline spolia optima

  • Posts: 580
  • Location: On the shores of the cosmic ocean...
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 25 June 2010, 00:46:00 »
how about this:

ĩ~

I would want to buy one of those.
keyboards!

Offline Shawn Stanford

  • Posts: 368
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #66 on: Fri, 25 June 2010, 08:23:43 »
The Brat Prince of COBOL

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 25 June 2010, 08:35:51 »
Quote from: kishy;196117
There would be endless arguments about if it's pronounced "till-dee" or "tilled".


Or "that squiggly yoke"

Personally I say "til-dah"

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 25 June 2010, 08:50:19 »
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;196099
What happened to `~ ? And tab?
Given that there were a small number of available keys, and shift keys can't be moved to the Fn-shift level without introducing excessive complications, ~` is now Fn-U, and Tab is now Fn-Q for the keyboard shown in the illustration, because it was necessary to repurpose some keys for additional shifts.

Given that many Fn-key combinations are required, having both a left and right Fn key to permit making these combinations withoug lifting the hands from the home row was highly desirable.

Quote from: spolia optima;196160
how about this:

ĩ~

I would want to buy one of those.
But they might just take your money for the keyboard, and then run away with it to Venezuela, instead of sending you your keyboard.
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 June 2010, 09:34:55 by quadibloc »

Offline itlnstln

  • Posts: 7048
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 25 June 2010, 09:28:16 »
Quote from: ch_123;196241
Or "that squiggly yoke"

Personally I say "til-dah"

I pronounce it as in Spanish, (roughly) teel-day.  It might just be a product of my environment.


Offline kishy

  • Posts: 1576
  • Location: Windsor, ON Canada
  • Eye Bee M
    • http://kishy.ca/
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 25 June 2010, 17:20:30 »
Quote from: ch_123;196241
Or "that squiggly yoke"

Personally I say "til-dah"

Yeah, I believe (and as the ripstictionary is reflecting) that's the correct way to say it (or something along the lines of till-deh, till-dah, till-duh). In retrospect, my joke (or whatever it is) was pretty poorly laid out because I didn't specify "when neither one is correct".

Side effect of not enough sleep...and I'll bet this post is too.
Enthusiast of springs which buckle noisily: my keyboards
Want to learn about the Kishsaver?
kishy.ca

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #71 on: Fri, 25 June 2010, 23:23:03 »
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;196099
What did happen to Tab?
As Tab is a diet soft drink, presumably the manufacturer used a new name for its successor when the artificial sweeteners in use for soft drinks underwent considerable changes.

Remember, originally, saccharin was the most common artificial sweetener. Then, sodium cyclamate largely replaced it - and was suddenly banned as the result of being found to cause cancer.

At first, diet soft drinks were then sweetened to a limited extent with natural sweeteners, with unfortunate results for their flavor. Then, aspartame, an artificial protein composed of two amino acids, became the new artificial sweetener of choice, despite some claims that it caused severe allergic reactions for some people.

Saccharin has now become available again, since new studies have eliminated it as a carcinogen, but it's generally available only directly as a sweetener, and is not used in processed foods.

And then there's levose used as a replacement for dextrose to provide sweetness without metabolizable calories.

Since changing the artificial sweetener used changes the flavor, changing the brand name is reasonable.

Offline jmpespxoreax

  • Posts: 17
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #72 on: Sat, 26 June 2010, 07:08:39 »
I second the call for more information as soon as you have it. This is amazing.

Offline microsoft windows

  • Blue Troll of Death
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 3621
  • President of geekhack.org
    • Get Internet Explorer 6
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #73 on: Sat, 26 June 2010, 08:13:54 »
Has anyone here noticed that Webwit hasn't said a single thing on this thread? I think he might be jealous.
CLICK HERE!     OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OF GEEKHACK.ORG    MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN MERRY CHRISTMAS

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #74 on: Sat, 26 June 2010, 10:26:27 »
Incidentally, on my website, I've clarified the kind of layout that I think could make this kind of keyboard highly usable (but, as noted above, requiring a matrix that allows more of the keys to be shifts without ghosting).

Offline Xuan

  • Posts: 189
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 02 July 2010, 18:10:40 »
and? where's the keyboard?

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #76 on: Sat, 03 July 2010, 01:15:43 »
Quote from: Xuan;198848
and? where's the keyboard?
The keyboard is attached to a label-making device that is in a dusty storeroom at the place where the original poster works. We do not know where it came from, or if it would work with a computer.

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #77 on: Sat, 03 July 2010, 06:05:46 »
Quote from: quadibloc;196559
As Tab is a diet soft drink, presumably the manufacturer used a new name for its successor when the artificial sweeteners in use for soft drinks underwent considerable changes.

Remember, originally, saccharin was the most common artificial sweetener. Then, sodium cyclamate largely replaced it - and was suddenly banned as the result of being found to cause cancer.

At first, diet soft drinks were then sweetened to a limited extent with natural sweeteners, with unfortunate results for their flavor. Then, aspartame, an artificial protein composed of two amino acids, became the new artificial sweetener of choice, despite some claims that it caused severe allergic reactions for some people.

Saccharin has now become available again, since new studies have eliminated it as a carcinogen, but it's generally available only directly as a sweetener, and is not used in processed foods.

And then there's levose used as a replacement for dextrose to provide sweetness without metabolizable calories.

Since changing the artificial sweetener used changes the flavor, changing the brand name is reasonable.


What I don't get is, why don't people just drink stuff with real sugar?

Offline pfink

  • Posts: 196
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #78 on: Sat, 03 July 2010, 10:57:32 »
Quote from: ch_123;198932
What I don't get is, why don't people just drink stuff with real sugar?


150 calories per can (sugar) vs. zero (artificial sweetener). Large blood glucose spike (sugar) vs. minimal blood glucose change (artificial sweetener.)

Of course you're better off drinking water than either.

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

  • The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 3025
  • Location: NCC-1701, USS Enterprise
  • Live long and prosper
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #79 on: Sat, 03 July 2010, 11:07:46 »
So you're telling me I should drink sugar-free Red Bull? Yuck!
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

IBM Model M SSK | IBM Model F XT | IBM Model F 122 | IBM Model M 122 | Ducky YOTD 2012 w/ blue switches | Poker II w/ Blue switches | Royal Kludge RK61 w/ Blue switches

Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #80 on: Sat, 03 July 2010, 12:26:15 »
Quote from: Computer-Lab in Basement;198992
So you're telling me I should drink sugar-free Red Bull? Yuck!
No, he is noting that some people choose to drink sugar-free soft drinks because they want something sweet and refreshing to drink, but they don't want to add to their calorie consumption.

This answers the question of why some people don't just drink the real soft drinks sweetened with real sugar. It does not suggest that everyone need follow their example.

Offline Xuan

  • Posts: 189
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #81 on: Sun, 04 July 2010, 14:53:20 »
Quote from: quadibloc;198906
The keyboard is attached to a label-making device that is in a dusty storeroom at the place where the original poster works. We do not know where it came from, or if it would work with a computer.


Yes, but it is his Mission to get it and photograph it, get the model number, test it, etc.
There's no turning back now, we must know more.

Offline InSanCen

  • Posts: 560
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 05 July 2010, 01:14:48 »
Quote from: Xuan;199405
Yes, but it is his Mission to get it and photograph it, get the model number, test it, etc.
There's no turning back now, we must know more.


Yup. Has to be done. Even though I am not interested in a tenkeyless model, that is, so far, totally unique.
Currently Using :- IBM M13 1996, Black :
Currently Own :- 1391406 1989 & 1990 : AT Model F 1985 : Boscom 122 (Black) : G80-3000 : G80-1800 (x2) : Wang 724 : G81-8000LPBGB (Card Reader, MY) : Unitek : AT102W : TVS Gold :
Project\'s :- Wang 724 Pink-->White Clicky : USB Model M : IBM LPFK :
Pointing stuff :- Logitech MX-518 : I-One Lynx R-15 Trackball : M13 Nipple : Microsoft Basic Optical\'s
:

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 05 July 2010, 04:54:18 »
Quote from: pfink;198990
Of course you're better off drinking water than either.


Bingo.

Quote
No, he is noting that some people choose to drink sugar-free soft drinks because they want something sweet and refreshing to drink, but they don't want to add to their calorie consumption.


You sound like a Coke commercial... There are plenty of natural things that are sweet and refreshing. Diet soft drinks taste pretty **** and aren't good for you... if you don't care about your health, drink the real stuff, if you want to be healthy, drink something that came from a plant or animal...

It's like 'light' cigarettes. If you're going to give yourself lung cancer, you might as well do it like a man and smoke the heaviest stuff you can find.

Quote
So you're telling me I should drink sugar-free Red Bull? Yuck!


Unless there's Vodka in it, you are doing it horribly wrong.
« Last Edit: Mon, 05 July 2010, 04:56:26 by ch_123 »

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 05 July 2010, 05:26:12 »
Did he ever figure out the name of the machine completely signmac?
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline quadibloc

  • Posts: 770
  • Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
  • Layout Fanatic
    • John Savard's Home Page
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 05 July 2010, 09:47:05 »
Quote from: chimera15;199621
Did he ever figure out the name of the machine completely signmac?
In some Googling, I found that a company called VnM makes a device called the Signmaker which is used for making routine safety labels.

Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 05 July 2010, 11:24:24 »

Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #87 on: Mon, 05 July 2010, 13:54:48 »
Quote from: ripster;199668
C'MON CLICKCLACK!!!!

For an artist you need to be more creative.

Throw a dwarf in there and not let him out of the room until he brings the keyboard out.
Show Image


Taylor and Paris are thinking to themselves...."I wonder if EVERYTHING is small".


The one on the right is Kelly Pickler
Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/ATNoppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)



Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution


Offline microsoft windows

  • Blue Troll of Death
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 3621
  • President of geekhack.org
    • Get Internet Explorer 6
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #88 on: Mon, 05 July 2010, 20:32:16 »
Who cares? They're all just a bunch of ditsy blonds.
CLICK HERE!     OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OF GEEKHACK.ORG    MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN MERRY CHRISTMAS

Offline kriminal

  • Posts: 424
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 05 July 2010, 21:04:09 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;199826
Who cares? They're all just a bunch of ditsy blonds.


for once i agree with mswindows
Geekhacked Filco FKBN87M/EB modified with Brown, black and blue cherries, doubleshot keycaps
Deck KBA-BL82 with Black cherries
Cherry G84-4100LCMDK-0 Cherry ML switches
Cherry G80-8200hpdus-2 Brown cherries
IBM Lexmark 51G8572 Model M Keyboard
Geekhacked Siig Minitouch KB1948
IBM Model M Mini 1397681

Offline microsoft windows

  • Blue Troll of Death
  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 3621
  • President of geekhack.org
    • Get Internet Explorer 6
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 05 July 2010, 21:06:33 »
Funny how every member on this forum has one moment where they agree with me.
CLICK HERE!     OFFICIAL PRESIDENT OF GEEKHACK.ORG    MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN MERRY CHRISTMAS

Offline Brodie337

  • Posts: 414
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 06 July 2010, 00:59:52 »
But thats limited to one...

Offline erricrice

  • Posts: 326
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #92 on: Sun, 22 August 2010, 12:20:52 »
So what's the status with this one?

You can't have given up clickclack, it's too great a loss for all of us to handle!
I\'m selling all my Shizz! Please buy it!

White ALPS: Northgate Omnikey 101-NCS(Real-Complicated)****Filco Zero FKBN87Z/EB(Fukka Simplifieds)****Siig MiniTouch(XM Simplifieds)
Black ALPS: Black Dell AT-101W(Real-Complicated)****ABS M1(Modded Black ALPS, Linear)
Buckling Spring: Model M 1391401(1988 & 1993)
Cherry Blues: DAS III Pro
Cherry Blacks: Cherry G80-11900
Cherry Browns: 3X Cherry G80-8113LRCUS-2
Cherry MY: G81-7000HPBUS-2****G81-3000LANUS-0****Modded to 20g
Rubber Dome: HHKB Lite 2 (White & Black)

Logitech G5[/FONT]
Erricrice\'s Song of the Day: Gorillaz - El Maņana
Yup, Blatantly stealing this from you Kishy, hope you don\'t mind, it\'s a great idea.

Offline spolia optima

  • Posts: 580
  • Location: On the shores of the cosmic ocean...
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #93 on: Sun, 22 August 2010, 15:14:43 »
Waiting patiently for update...
Also, I wonder what webwit would say about all this?
keyboards!

Offline erricrice

  • Posts: 326
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #94 on: Sun, 22 August 2010, 16:17:55 »
Quote from: spolia optima;215698
Waiting patiently for update...
Also, I wonder what webwit would say about all this?


He'd probably be like:  "Oh, those.  I remember those things, I think I have a couple of them in my basement collecting dust."

Lol
I\'m selling all my Shizz! Please buy it!

White ALPS: Northgate Omnikey 101-NCS(Real-Complicated)****Filco Zero FKBN87Z/EB(Fukka Simplifieds)****Siig MiniTouch(XM Simplifieds)
Black ALPS: Black Dell AT-101W(Real-Complicated)****ABS M1(Modded Black ALPS, Linear)
Buckling Spring: Model M 1391401(1988 & 1993)
Cherry Blues: DAS III Pro
Cherry Blacks: Cherry G80-11900
Cherry Browns: 3X Cherry G80-8113LRCUS-2
Cherry MY: G81-7000HPBUS-2****G81-3000LANUS-0****Modded to 20g
Rubber Dome: HHKB Lite 2 (White & Black)

Logitech G5[/FONT]
Erricrice\'s Song of the Day: Gorillaz - El Maņana
Yup, Blatantly stealing this from you Kishy, hope you don\'t mind, it\'s a great idea.

Offline ironman31

  • Posts: 834
Model M mini-micro??? Whuuuuaaah?
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 25 August 2010, 22:51:27 »
I bet he didn't subscribe to this post, and he just keeps missing it under new posts.
Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/ATNoppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)



Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution


Offline shem

  • Posts: 8
Unicomp has no plans to make a mini
« Reply #96 on: Thu, 26 August 2010, 12:10:38 »
Sorry to bring this thread back on-topic, but I just got a reply from Unicomp. I asked if they plan to re-introduce a buckling spring tenkeyless model. The reply was

"At the current time there are no plans to develope[sic] and manufacture a mini model M."

No surprise there, I suppose.
HHKB2 pro, IBM Ultranav(travel & normal), AT102W, VT220, IBM model M Space Saver, IBM model F AT, Matias Mini Tactile Pro, JD45