Author Topic: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Group buy is live!)  (Read 7198 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
PHANTOM PLATES



233612-0

Phantom options leave a bit to be desired these days, what with the progression of design over these few years. I've slowly been putting together things to help with this, if only a small amount. The easiest and most affordable starting point seems to be plates, and FR4 is a perfect option for test runs. In the future other material options may be available, but that depends on interest and successfulness of projects.

This will be a small test run to see how well the design works, and iron out small kinks. This will currently only be the plates and not any PCBs, but I am in works with a few people to design better PCBs for filco/phantom style cases in the future, since phantom PCBs currently sort of blow imo. And if for some reason someone, *cough* hiney *cough* beats me to the punch, I'll hopefully be working with them to sell small kits with plates in the future.

233614-1233583-2
233596-3233598-4

Notes
  • I'm currently only looking to do fixed ansi in this test run, but am open to universal in the future.
  • The design is inspired by OTD plates, relief cuts are fun!
  • Color will most likely be Matte Black with copper colored accents, unless most people prefer something else in the form.
  • Compatible with cherry stabalizers.
  • As far as I can tell, this will technically work with the stock PCB of a filco, but I do recommend an aftermarket PCB solution such as a Phantom or an LFK-TKL
  • The bottom row will be more accommodating this time considering that there is not a PCB alongside it. In the future plates will only support PCB mounted Cherry Stabs.
  • 1.5mm thickness, for now

Here's what pricing will look like:

Plates
  • FR4 Full plate - $20
  • FR4 Half plate - Same as above
  • Micarta Full plate - To be determined, but seems to be around the same pricing. Expect $30, but be happy when we get below that  :thumb:
Plates
  • So all of these will be the same price. $22 per liner. Refer to the OP for info about each material. I could be wrong, but I got the impression today that since they are cutting almost all the same thickness, from the same outline, that as long as they're ordered together pricing should stay consistant. Expect small changes here just in case, but I'm hopeful.
Shipping
  • $12 CONUS, Individually determined international

Plate Liners (sound dampener gaskets) and Micarta Plates
- Had a chat with a tech at a local gaskets/rubber shop and got a rundown on 3 possible materials to use as plate/PCB liners (that's what I'm calling them for now), And it looks like they would be affordable options to add to this group buy, to compliment the plates. I do need to stress, that these would be a test run. If these go well, then this could open the door to making them for all kinds of keyboards, as well as a local affordable place to produce POM plates in the future.

- Additionally I will be giving the option for Micarta plates. This should be similar to carbon fiber, but less dense, and lighter. Limiting an initial number of these to 5, they will be "clear" in color(unsure exactly how clear these will turn out since it's supposed to be woven and pressed polyester)


For simplicity I've created a separate IC form below, with only 2 questions about the liners. Please fill this out if interested, that way I can have a clear plan in mind moving forward with these.

Options:

  • Neoprene Firm - Good old neoprene. This should work well to reduce vibration, and should dampen the sound of the board a bit. This would be a middle of the road option, with some benefits from each of the ones below.
  • Cork Rubber - This is a cork and neoprene blend with medium density, high durability, and decent sound dampening. This will dampen the sound similar to the full neoprene, but should have a deeper sound signature, lighter weight, and will allow for more plate flex. I might be partial to this, because it also looks cool as ****, and I like the idea of a deeper more "woody" sound.
  • Closed Cell Sponge Rubber - This is essentially high density neoprene foam. Because this is a foam, it will almost definitely provide the most sound dampening. Normally the space between the plate and the PCB is 1/8" inch, and I can get this at 3/16", since this is a foam like material it will compress and reduce vibration/sound a bit more.

All options in this initial run will be $22 per liner, as long as each respective material reaches 10 or more units.


MAIN IC FORM

IC FOR PLATE LINERS

JOIN THE DISCORD

I only hope others stan their Filcos as much as I do  :-*

« Last Edit: Mon, 20 January 2020, 12:25:16 by DALExSNAIL »

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 26 December 2019, 15:20:15 »
Reserved

Updates:

Updated form to include username.
Updated form to include preferred bottom row options.

12/28/2019
  • Seems like we may have had enough interest for a "Both" option, as far as half-plate vs full-plate so in this run there will be the option for either as long as those users still would like them when the GB starts. The moq on plates is only 5, so it would be easy to fill the numbers here if we needed.
  • Interest primarily has been in a standard bottom row as well, so I'm working on the mock-ups now to change both over to that.

12/30/2019
  • Updated the logo on the plate mockups to reflect what I'm hoping they look like.
  • Updated spacebar stab mounting, since previously the design did not work for plate mount, due to a mixup on my part. New design keeps the benefits of the previous cutout, but will now support all cherry and costar stabs.
  • The full plate option has been the majority choice for all of the IC so far, and will be the primary option when the GB starts. I will offer the half plate option as well when we do reach that stage, but we will need at least 5 to opt for this.
  • The 2 black options have somehow been 50/50 for the whole IC so far, so I will be opting for the matte this go around, since the price increase is negligible. The matte looks much better with the accents around the switch cutouts.
  • One of the bigger successes has been finding that a lot of people are also interested in a thinner PCB with relief cuts. So that will be the next project I'll focus on, if this goes well. Cuts in this won't be so aggressive compared to the plates. Cuts will likely be thinner but in similar areas to compliment the plate.

1/2/2020
  • Limiting the initial buy to 20 users, to avoid complexity.
  • Due to the holidays, the GB will be starting later than originally planned. Not a concrete ETA at the moment, but I'm looking to start in February.
  • The universal option has had next to no interest, so moving forward these will have fixed layouts, even in future buys.

1/7/2020
  • Received information on plate liners earlier than expected, so adding as an option to this buy. Updated initial post to reflect this.

1/13/2020
  • Updated the plate files to remove switch top cutouts, and clean up other things in the layout.
  • Will be offering a small number of Micarta plates as well. This should be a less dense but very similar material to carbon fiber. The decreased density should in theory help with sound reduction. Will most likely be more expensive than other options for the time.
  • Quote should be here relatively soon, now that the files are in order, and the holidays are over.



1/14/2020
I've gotten the majority of quotes on things and I feel confident starting the buy next week. I'll submit the post on Monday, and when it's approved the group buy will begin. I'll keep the form up for the buy until that same time, the following Monday.

Here's what pricing will look like:

Plates
  • FR4 Full plate - $20
  • FR4 Half plate - Same as above
  • Micarta Full plate - To be determined, but seems to be around the same pricing. Expect $30, but be happy when we get below that  :thumb:

Plates
  • So all of these will be the same price. $22 per liner. Refer to the OP for info about each material. I could be wrong, but I got the impression today that since they are cutting almost all the same thickness, from the same outline, that as long as they're ordered together pricing should stay consistant. Expect small changes here just in case, but I'm hopeful.

Shipping
  • $12 CONUS, Individually determined international
« Last Edit: Tue, 14 January 2020, 19:47:37 by DALExSNAIL »

Offline tex_live_utility

  • Posts: 925
  • MX brown apologist
    • twitch.tv/salt_rock_lamp
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 26 December 2019, 16:03:37 »
Aluminum customs are fun but there's really nothing like a sturdy injection-molded case for great sound and a little bit of softness compared to a chunk of metal. Would be great to have an option other than aluminum for plates now.

There's no chance this also works with iKBC cases too, right? They look similar on the outside with the same LED positioning.
Discord: salt rock lamp#0679 | Reddit: /u/nerdponx | Deskthority: autoload -Uz | Keebtalk: salt_rock_lamp
Twitch: salt_rock_lamp | YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd7YXZjilUutJ6ShZWrvQtg | Instagram: @salt_rock_keyboards


Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 26 December 2019, 17:44:15 »
Aluminum customs are fun but there's really nothing like a sturdy injection-molded case for great sound and a little bit of softness compared to a chunk of metal. Would be great to have an option other than aluminum for plates now.

There's no chance this also works with iKBC cases too, right? They look similar on the outside with the same LED positioning.

Presumably any keyboard that's compatible with a phantom setup, should work here. I can't say for sure, but the specs here are pulled from the open source phantom plate CAD drawings on github. Unless there are some mounting needs for the bottom of the plate in those keyboards, it shouldn't present a problem.

At any rate, they'll be affordable enough to warrant a try at it ;)

Offline vegs

  • Posts: 599
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 04:17:20 »
ne iso :-*
TGR 910 RE | Tind

Offline MK47

  • Posts: 34
  • Don't talk to me
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 07:20:15 »
Does this plate have the bent edges so it can fit in the original Flico case?

Offline wholypantalones

  • Posts: 811
  • Location: The Mitten
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 09:16:44 »
Does this plate have the bent edges so it can fit in the original Flico case?

I have one of these plates in an original Filco case and it fits just fine without the bent edges.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2551

Also filled out the interest check form, definitely interested.

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 310
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 09:38:00 »
I recently bought a majestouch tkl as a project board so I'm very interested if you offer 6.25u bottom row support. I have it disassembled rn and wasn't looking forward to rebuilding with the stock steel plate.

Offline MK47

  • Posts: 34
  • Don't talk to me
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 10:10:12 »
Does this plate have the bent edges so it can fit in the original Flico case?

I have one of these plates in an original Filco case and it fits just fine without the bent edges.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2551

Does it fit securely in there? What is holding it in place, just the screws?

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 11:37:50 »
ne iso :-*

Fill out form vegs, pls lad

Offline enrique.aliaga

  • Posts: 247
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 11:38:33 »
How does FR4 compare to Carbon Fiber (my current favorite plate material) in terms of softness, flex and sound?

I'd also be interested in hearing how it stands against Polycarbonate.

Interested in this project, thanks. :)

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 11:39:29 »
Does this plate have the bent edges so it can fit in the original Flico case?

I have one of these plates in an original Filco case and it fits just fine without the bent edges.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2551

Does it fit securely in there? What is holding it in place, just the screws?

It should fit securely yes. It would only be supported by the screws, you are correct, but it's a secure fit.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 11:43:22 »
I recently bought a majestouch tkl as a project board so I'm very interested if you offer 6.25u bottom row support. I have it disassembled rn and wasn't looking forward to rebuilding with the stock steel plate.

For the test run, my goal was an all around fixed layout,  and I'm personally a WKL fan, but this is a good question to add the the original form. I'll add another option to the IC form, asking for preferred bottom row layout, and if standard wins out, we can do a fixed standard bottom row.

Alternatively, if enough people are in for a plate, and we have at least 5 for each option, then both would be on the table for ordering.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 11:47:45 »
I've updated the form to include preferred bottom row options, as I would prefer not to do a universal bottom row for these plates, due to the nature of the design.

If you have filled out the form, please revisit and fill out the added option. If it doesn't let you do that, let me know and I'll re check it, ty!

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 12:32:14 »
232459-0

Here is a quick mockup of what the standard bottom row would look like.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 13:38:18 »
How does FR4 compare to Carbon Fiber (my current favorite plate material) in terms of softness, flex and sound?

I'd also be interested in hearing how it stands against Polycarbonate.

Interested in this project, thanks. :)

I haven't had the 2 at the same time to really compare, but I'd say that the softness is between Aluminum and Poly. Flex wise this should be decently flexy, considering the relief cuts here, plus in the future I plan to do a small run of thinner plates to increase that further. Sound wise, it's not as deep a tone, as CF, but imo nothing is as deep sounding as CF. I plan to do a CF run in the future, if all goes well, and there is interest.

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 310
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 17:48:55 »
Does this plate have the bent edges so it can fit in the original Flico case?

I have one of these plates in an original Filco case and it fits just fine without the bent edges.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2551

Also filled out the interest check form, definitely interested.

Would you mind sharing a picture of how it mounts in a stock case? I'm concerned about this too because both stock and aftermarket cases rely on those edges to secure the bottom of the plate. It only mounts along the top.

Edit: Also, the discord invite doesn't work fyi op.
« Last Edit: Fri, 27 December 2019, 17:51:04 by Ensaum »

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 20:26:31 »
Does this plate have the bent edges so it can fit in the original Flico case?

I have one of these plates in an original Filco case and it fits just fine without the bent edges.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2551

Also filled out the interest check form, definitely interested.

Would you mind sharing a picture of how it mounts in a stock case? I'm concerned about this too because both stock and aftermarket cases rely on those edges to secure the bottom of the plate. It only mounts along the top.

Edit: Also, the discord invite doesn't work fyi op.

Updated the link, I've been setting up some administrative things on it and I guess it must have refreshed. This one should be permanent, but then again so was the last one haha.

https://discord.gg/54YFkb7

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 20:30:33 »
Does this plate have the bent edges so it can fit in the original Flico case?

I have one of these plates in an original Filco case and it fits just fine without the bent edges.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2551

Also filled out the interest check form, definitely interested.

Would you mind sharing a picture of how it mounts in a stock case? I'm concerned about this too because both stock and aftermarket cases rely on those edges to secure the bottom of the plate. It only mounts along the top.

Edit: Also, the discord invite doesn't work fyi op.

Copied this link at a timestamp that shows how these will sit in your boards. The plate he is using is the base for these designs here, so they will sit the same way in the keyboard. In a tex case or something similar though, these would sit on a small lip that is machined into the bottom.

Edit: For simplicity, here is a picture.
232469-0

It will sit this way in a standard Filco case with no issue, or need for the bent edge. The standoffs in the keyboard are what hold it up in this case, as far as I know, but I haven't had a phantom in some time.
« Last Edit: Fri, 27 December 2019, 20:37:53 by DALExSNAIL »

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 310
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 21:31:55 »
Oh, I see. There two standoff towards the bottom as well as grooves on either side that hold the plate up in the stock case. I flipped my plate upside down to eliminate the effect of the curved parts and it stayed up just fine. I wish I had one of the alu cases to test out too. Although anything made with the phantom in mind should work I imagine. I've been trying to find info on the YMDK ones specifically, but am not having much luck.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 22:23:16 »
Oh, I see. There two standoff towards the bottom as well as grooves on either side that hold the plate up in the stock case. I flipped my plate upside down to eliminate the effect of the curved parts and it stayed up just fine. I wish I had one of the alu cases to test out too. Although anything made with the phantom in mind should work I imagine. I've been trying to find info on the YMDK ones specifically, but am not having much luck.

Found this post on reddit, that confirms that phantom internals work with the case, so presumably the plates here will as well.

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 310
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 27 December 2019, 23:41:39 »
Found this post on reddit, that confirms that phantom internals work with the case, so presumably the plates here will as well.

That unfortunately is a phantom pcb with a stock Filco plate. I'll keep digging though. Worst case I can just shim it maybe.

Edit: Aha! I found this reddit thread a long time ago and just managed to dig it back up. Basically there are 3 screws along the underside of the top half of the case that secure the plate pcb to it (see attached picture). These screws need the bent part the pcb to clamp down on. Here's the comment thread where the op and a commenter talk about this. A flat plate will work fine in the stock plastic case, but in an aftermarket case it will probably need to have shims for those screws and/or foam filler under the pcb.

Edit 2: Upon closer reading, it seems maybe the washer they where talking about in that thread clamps down on the pcb. I also checked my own board and the pcb extends beyond the plate bend by a couple millimeters. It seems that phantom plates should work with YMDK cases at least.
« Last Edit: Sat, 28 December 2019, 00:23:02 by Ensaum »

Offline Delirious

  • Posts: 315
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 28 December 2019, 00:06:00 »
Spacebar stab cutouts only work with plate mount costars, not plate mount cherry

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 28 December 2019, 00:48:18 »
Spacebar stab cutouts only work with plate mount costars, not plate mount cherry

As far as I remember, all phantoms I've had in the past used plate mount cherry.

With the stock PCB they may not work, since there may not be clearance, but with a phantom PCB this should work? Instructions on Deskthority seem to imply that they work as well, since I'm using the cad files for the plate referenced in the build.

Maybe a small change I made messed that up? I wouldn't think so though.

Edit: In reality, I think a better option might be to just work with hiney's open tkl files, and try and fit to those stab cutouts. Only problem there would be cutting out the few who would want to use their stock PCB.

Another edit: I actually  see what I removed now. Removed the side notches on accident, thanks for the catch.
« Last Edit: Sat, 28 December 2019, 00:57:24 by DALExSNAIL »

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 28 December 2019, 00:50:27 »
Found this post on reddit, that confirms that phantom internals work with the case, so presumably the plates here will as well.

That unfortunately is a phantom pcb with a stock Filco plate. I'll keep digging though. Worst case I can just shim it maybe.

Edit: Aha! I found this reddit thread a long time ago and just managed to dig it back up. Basically there are 3 screws along the underside of the top half of the case that secure the plate pcb to it (see attached picture). These screws need the bent part the pcb to clamp down on. Here's the comment thread where the op and a commenter talk about this. A flat plate will work fine in the stock plastic case, but in an aftermarket case it will probably need to have shims for those screws and/or foam filler under the pcb.

Edit 2: Upon closer reading, it seems maybe the washer they where talking about in that thread clamps down on the pcb. I also checked my own board and the pcb extends beyond the plate bend by a couple millimeters. It seems that phantom plates should work with YMDK cases at least.

Oof, totally missed the stock plate there, good eye. Glad you got some clarification though!

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 28 December 2019, 14:23:02 »
Quick update:
  • Seems like we may have had enough interest for a "Both" option, as far as half-plate vs full-plate so in this run there will be the option for either as long as those users still would like them when the GB starts. The moq on plates is only 5, so it would be easy to fill the numbers here if we needed.
  • Interest primarily has been in a standard bottom row as well, so I'm working on the mock-ups now to change both over to that.

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 310
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 28 December 2019, 15:27:26 »
Quick update:
  • Seems like we may have had enough interest for a "Both" option, as far as half-plate vs full-plate so in this run there will be the option for either as long as those users still would like them when the GB starts. The moq on plates is only 5, so it would be easy to fill the numbers here if we needed.
  • Interest primarily has been in a standard bottom row as well, so I'm working on the mock-ups now to change both over to that.

Fyi, I will buy both a standard and wkl plate if they are both offered. Probably won't be in for a half plate though tbh.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 28 December 2019, 18:03:54 »
Quick update:
  • Seems like we may have had enough interest for a "Both" option, as far as half-plate vs full-plate so in this run there will be the option for either as long as those users still would like them when the GB starts. The moq on plates is only 5, so it would be easy to fill the numbers here if we needed.
  • Interest primarily has been in a standard bottom row as well, so I'm working on the mock-ups now to change both over to that.

Fyi, I will buy both a standard and wkl plate if they are both offered. Probably won't be in for a half plate though tbh.

To avoid complications since this is my first GB, I think we'll stick to just standard this go around, and next run will be a dedicated WKL run.

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 310
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 29 December 2019, 12:08:00 »
Before you go to gb, I have a couple questions about the relief cuts.

What is the massive cutout underneath the spacebar for? I can foresee this causing switch alignment issues for the spacebar since there are no switch pin holes on filco pcbs.

Why is the cutout between the alpha and nav cluster inconsistent? I don't really see how this will make any difference in typing feel, but it will make a random visible gap down to the pcb once the board is assembled.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 29 December 2019, 15:50:56 »
Before you go to gb, I have a couple questions about the relief cuts.

What is the massive cutout underneath the spacebar for? I can foresee this causing switch alignment issues for the spacebar since there are no switch pin holes on filco pcbs.

Why is the cutout between the alpha and nav cluster inconsistent? I don't really see how this will make any difference in typing feel, but it will make a random visible gap down to the pcb once the board is assembled.

These plates are designed with an aftermarket PCB in mind, since for the most part desoldering and reusing the stock PCB isn't preferable. The majority reason for replacing the internals on a filco imo are to have cherry stabalizers and a more configurable PCB, rather than just a hoof swap in. The bottom cutout for the spacebar is a throwback to OTD plates, which I've used and liked in the past.

Cutout to the right side is just an area that had extra room for a cutout. Relief cuts in my opinion improve sound, and create a bit of extra flex for a softer typing feel, so I'm testing out a little more than originally planned (for science). It will most likely be visible, but not noticable in a meaningful way. I have to have decent overhead lighting and be standing to even see my current stock plate in mine. In part this is due to how low the pcb and plate sit in filco cases. 

Also the GB will have a little while before starting, as I'm still waiting on the quote.

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 310
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 29 December 2019, 17:26:28 »
These plates are designed with an aftermarket PCB in mind, since for the most part desoldering and reusing the stock PCB isn't preferable. The majority reason for replacing the internals on a filco imo are to have cherry stabalizers and a more configurable PCB, rather than just a hoof swap in.

But Phantom pcbs don't have switch pin holes either, and a hoof swap results in a completely re-programmable pcb anyways. So we'd be waiting on an unreleased custom pcb from the second GB for the best compatibility with this current plate.

I'll take your word on the side cutout though. Not as big a deal as the spacebar one.

Sorry, not trying to be difficult :( I think this is a cool project and am just trying to point out potential concerns.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 29 December 2019, 20:52:13 »
These plates are designed with an aftermarket PCB in mind, since for the most part desoldering and reusing the stock PCB isn't preferable. The majority reason for replacing the internals on a filco imo are to have cherry stabalizers and a more configurable PCB, rather than just a hoof swap in.

But Phantom pcbs don't have switch pin holes either, and a hoof swap results in a completely re-programmable pcb anyways. So we'd be waiting on an unreleased custom pcb from the second GB for the best compatibility with this current plate.

I'll take your word on the side cutout though. Not as big a deal as the spacebar one.

Sorry, not trying to be difficult :( I think this is a cool project and am just trying to point out potential concerns.

This PCB would be a better alternative at the moment, but I think that the aligning of the spacebar switch should be fine for now, as long as care is taken when assembling. I normally have to do this with or without PCB mount pins anyway, especially with longer keys. The top 3 sides should align it well enough, then the solder should hold it in place.

The plates here are a test run, and are in fact intended to best be used alongside the PCBs that will be made later. The buy here is mostly meant to dip my toes in the water and gauge interest for the future. That's why I opted for the fr4 option, since it's so low cost and accessible. I can get these out to some people to try, and get feedback while finalizing the PCB.

Not being difficult though, everyone is entitled to question!  ;)


Offline Delirious

  • Posts: 315
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 29 December 2019, 21:18:46 »
232516-0

Stab cutouts would not work with plate mount cherry still. Plate mount cherry stabs are installed from the top down, so you need the slit to be fully connected from one end to the other. By doing so you can insert the wire underneath the plate using the full slit. Obviously you're going for the otd space cutout and it is not working atm. If you insist on keeping that cutout, you have to narrow down to pcb mount stabs + lfk pcb only. Please see this video for more info:


edit: buggy youtube redirect, but you can see the whole process at 54:17 mark.

« Last Edit: Mon, 30 December 2019, 17:19:42 by Delirious »

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 29 December 2019, 22:08:55 »
(Attachment Link)

Stab cutouts would not work with plate mount cherry still. Plate mount cherry stabs are installed from the top down, so you need the slit to be fully connected from one end to the other. By doing so you can insert the wire underneath the plate using the full slit. Obviously you're going for the otd space cutout and it is not working atm. If you insist on keeping that cutout, you have to narrow down to pcb mount stabs + lfk pcb only. Please see this video for more info:


It's been a while since I've had plate mount, so I incorrectly assumed that the actual wire could be installed after the ends were mounted. I'll do a small rework there, that I think will be fine.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 29 December 2019, 23:13:46 »
232562-0

As far as I know this would solve the issue and still have a similar effect to what I was trying to do anyway. Really quick mockup, so Still some small adjustments to be made, but feel free to let me know if you see something.

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 310
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 29 December 2019, 23:23:27 »
(Attachment Link)

As far as I know this would solve the issue and still have a similar effect to what I was trying to do anyway. Really quick mockup, so Still some small adjustments to be made, but feel free to let me know if you see something.

:thumb: Love it! Looks great as far as I can tell. Probably the best overall solution to keep the cutout along with pcb/stabilizer compat.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 30 December 2019, 14:45:25 »
I will be looking to start the buy in the next 2-4 weeks.

12/30/2019
  • Updated the logo on the plate mockups to reflect what I'm hoping they look like.
  • Updated spacebar stab mounting, since previously the design did not work for plate mount, due to a mixup on my part. New design keeps the benefits of the previous cutout, but will now support all cherry and costar stabs.
  • The full plate option has been the majority choice for all of the IC so far, and will be the primary option when the GB starts. I will offer the half plate option as well when we do reach that stage, but we will need at least 5 to opt for this.
  • The 2 black options have somehow been 50/50 for the whole IC so far, so I will be opting for the matte this go around, since the price increase is negligible. The matte looks much better with the accents around the switch cutouts.
  • One of the bigger successes has been finding that a lot of people are also interested in a thinner PCB with relief cuts. So that will be the next project I'll focus on, if this goes well. Cuts in this won't be so aggressive compared to the plates. Cuts will likely be thinner but in similar areas to compliment the plate.

Offline enrique.aliaga

  • Posts: 247
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 30 December 2019, 14:56:10 »
Any chance of getting a Hot-Swappable PCB in the future? In either standard ANSI, or ANSI WKL.

Id like to use the Phantom with a Filco case, as a test bed for switches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 30 December 2019, 15:06:04 »
Any chance of getting a Hot-Swappable PCB in the future? In either standard ANSI, or ANSI WKL.

Id like to use the Phantom with a Filco case, as a test bed for switches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a "to be determined" option really but lots of people seem to like that option, so it's a feature front runner. Im worried with the planned cutouts in what I would like to be the first run, that having this could shorten the lifespan of the PCB though. What with the additional flex, and thinness.

I will likely try and run the thinner and more flexible PCB alongside a normal thickness/no cutout version, that has the hotswap, unless I get word that the pressure of swapping switches won't damage the board.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Plate replacement for Phantom/Filco
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 02 January 2020, 07:13:09 »
Due to the holidays, the GB will be starting later than originally planned. Not concrete ETA at the moment, but I'm looking to start in February.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 12:19:01 »
Got some information on plate liners for sound dampening over the weekend. Updated the original post to reflect this, check it out if you can. Added an additional IC for users to fill in if they want one.

Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 543
Re: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 14:47:31 »
This plate seems cool, but can someone elaborate what it is for?

Offline DasGnome

  • Posts: 148
Re: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 15:48:04 »
This plate seems cool, but can someone elaborate what it is for?

There are multiple boards that share the same plate mounting designing. CM QuickFire Rapid, Filco Majestouch, and Phantom PCBs are basically the same and are usually intercompatible with cases and plates. In  my case, I have a mostly custom old QFR except for the plate, and this would be an upgrade in looks, sound, and feel from the stock plate for my preferences.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 08 January 2020, 08:16:03 »
This plate seems cool, but can someone elaborate what it is for?

In addition to the explanation above, these will also be compatible with the plate liners listed in the OP. The goal is to create a more muted sound signature with a deeper tone when using this combo. I'm personally a huge stickler for sound in my keyboard, and it's the main reason I'm so fond of Filcos, since they are as close as I've gotten to a sound I like. Essentially I'm hoping the runway to the sound I'd like is shorter, using a filco as a base.


Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 543
Re: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 08 January 2020, 12:25:15 »
Thanks! It looks interesting. I'm happy with the build quality of Filcos, and could imagine using one as the basis for a custom.

I know there are aluminum or other metal cases available for these. Have you seen the photo of the Honeywell TKL customization?



It looks awesome!

https://terrencemiao.github.io/blog/2017/08/02/Customisation-of-Filco-Majestouch-2-Mechanical-Keyboard/

So I have thought about maximizing the capability of a Filco through these modifications. But I was planning to do it for a full-size, which drastically lessens case/pcb choices.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 08 January 2020, 12:40:43 »
Thanks! It looks interesting. I'm happy with the build quality of Filcos, and could imagine using one as the basis for a custom.

I know there are aluminum or other metal cases available for these. Have you seen the photo of the Honeywell TKL customization?

Show Image


It looks awesome!

https://terrencemiao.github.io/blog/2017/08/02/Customisation-of-Filco-Majestouch-2-Mechanical-Keyboard/

So I have thought about maximizing the capability of a Filco through these modifications. But I was planning to do it for a full-size, which drastically lessens case/pcb choices.

A few of the mods from that post wouldn't be necessary with this plate, because you could use cherry stabalizers instead of costar. Looks like a few things he did were to improve the fit of that GMK which is notorious for being loose on costar stabs.

As far as full size goes, I did notice that almost no plate replacements or PCBs are made for them. Maybe I could do an IC for that next time, if these go well. I feel that the majority of users who have Filcos are on TKL, but I could be wrong!


Offline HungerMechanic

  • Posts: 543
Re: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 08 January 2020, 12:48:03 »
Yes, I'm kind of envisioning a Filco TKL build right now. I'd want to replace the switches, primarily, so having a new plate and PCB are helpful in that respect. I don't really need an aluminum case, but nicer internals would be better.

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
[IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 08 January 2020, 12:48:46 »
Thinking of removing the switch top removal cuts.
If anyone is opposed to this let me know, but so far it seems this might reduce price, and to be honest, in my experience  the slots for removal aren't that practical. Faster to desolder most times imho.
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 January 2020, 12:54:46 by DALExSNAIL »

Online DALExSNAIL

  • The User Formerly Known as 'Formerly DudeSnail'
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: I am a geek!!
  • Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
  • 𝖋𝖚𝖈𝖐 𝖆𝖑𝖕𝖘
Re: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 08 January 2020, 12:51:49 »
Yes, I'm kind of envisioning a Filco TKL build right now. I'd want to replace the switches, primarily, so having a new plate and PCB are helpful in that respect. I don't really need an aluminum case, but nicer internals would be better.

For sure yeah.
But just to clarify, PCBs will come after, at the moment I'm still working with a designer to get this complete and prototypes made.

In the future, after this is done, I'll be running a full upgrade kit for a Filco's internals (Plate, PCB, Stabs, and potentially switches), so if you hold out until 2nd quarter, possibly 3rd of this year, that could be an option.

Offline Ensaum

  • Posts: 310
Re: [IC] - FR4 Phantom/Filco Plates and Plate liners (Update 1/7/2020)
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 08 January 2020, 14:14:37 »
Thinking of removing the switch top removal cuts.
If anyone is opposed to this let me know, but so far it seems this might reduce price, and to be honest, in my experience  the slots for removal aren't that practical. Faster to desolder most times imho.

In theory these are nice, but from my experience, it's a total pain to actually remove switch tops once soldered. I've never actually needed them either so if its cheaper to remove the cuts then I don't mind.