Author Topic: Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case  (Read 6190 times)

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Offline kkatano

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Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 11:05:48 »
I recently designed a Phantom style PCB, but found that it did not fit perfectly with the YMDK aluminum case. The genuine Filco PCB seems to have the same problem.
So I started designing a new PCB named Wallaby that fits perfectly into the YMDK case.

Does anyone have the same problem as me? I searched online and nobody seems to mention this issue.

Anyway, I will work on the project for my enjoyment.



First version of Wallaby has been released 3/14/2020

Github: https://github.com/kkatano/wallaby

Gerber file is available from the release page.
This project is released under the MIT license. Feel free to customize, redistribute, manufacture and sell under the license. I hope you enjoy this project :thumb:

237780-0



Other great works you may be interested in (for Filco fans)

The Phantom
http://bathroomepiphanies.com/keyboards/phantom/
https://deskthority.net/wiki/Phantom

XMMX
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=93422.0

SaikouType 110
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97883.0

FR4 Phantom Plates and Liners
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=104298.0



« Last Edit: Sat, 14 March 2020, 09:26:20 by kkatano »

Offline equalunique

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 11:34:02 »
Cool idea! I could really use a couple of these for old Filco boards I have.

On here the user [null] created a PCB for fullsize Filco boards. Maybe it would be helpful for your design? Link: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=97883.0

Offline tex_live_utility

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 13:28:08 »
This would go well with the current IC for FR4 plates for Filco cases.
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Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 18:46:41 »
Thanks for interesting information, equalunique. That's great project.
XMMX is also a great work and good replacement PCB.

« Last Edit: Tue, 14 January 2020, 18:59:43 by kkatano »

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 18:52:44 »
This would go well with the current IC for FR4 plates for Filco cases.

That's good. I think the plate you mentioned will fit both Filco and YMDK cases.

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 20 January 2020, 08:40:32 »
The prototype of Wallaby is currently being manufactured. It will be delivered to me in early February.

Here are 3D images output by KiCad. There is still room for brushing up the PCB layout, especially the wiring.

Top view
233970-0

Bottom view
233972-1

JST header for YMDK case
233974-2

This is a trick to adapt the PCB to the YMDK case. In this way, we can save space inside the case and fit the top and bottom of the case perfectly.

JST header for Filco case
233976-3
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 January 2020, 08:54:57 by kkatano »

Offline mode

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 22 January 2020, 00:53:01 »
How did you mount your plate? I use that case with an LFK-SMK PCB and that connector fits just fine. I dunno if alps switches result in the plate sitting closer to the PCB though.

Nobody seems to mention how they mount their plates to that case either, the two screws at the top are ok for that side, but there's no good way to mount the bottom so it's secure.

I ended up running a bead of strong epoxy along the bottom edge so the plate is properly secure, but non-removable.
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 January 2020, 01:02:03 by mode »

Offline mode

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 22 January 2020, 01:23:09 »
I don't have a picture of the back to hand, but you see how the plate is totally flush with the case? is yours like that?

Comparing a box royal to an SKCM orange the plate-pcb offset looks to be about the same, so I'm still confused why you have this issue, assuming they've not revised the CNC case design?

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 24 January 2020, 09:49:33 »
mode, thanks for sharing your experience.

How did you mount your plate?

I mount the plate to the screw hole at the top of the case with screws.

I measured the inside of the case and the thickness of stock Filco PCB with plate. The results are as follows.

Case inside height: about 11.2mm
PCB(+plate) thickness: about 12.2mm

I also measured a Phantom style PCB with this plate, which was about 12.6mm thick.

Case measurement method
234212-0

Case result
234214-1

PCB measurement method
234216-2

PCB result
234218-3

I want to emphasize that, as I showed in my first post, this is just an aesthetic matter. If you close the case and tighten the screws strongly, the gap will not be noticeable. The function as a keyboard is not impaired. But that is not a perfect fit.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 January 2020, 09:58:21 by kkatano »

Offline mode

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 25 January 2020, 09:30:11 »
The thickness of plate doesnít matter, itís the thickness of the pcb + port which is 7mm for the lfk pcb, as you can see it fits perfectly with no squashing.

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 25 January 2020, 10:12:13 »
mode, thanks for measuring. I made a diagram to organize the discussion.

234255-0

(a): YMDK case inside height I mesured.
(b): Thickness from top of plate to bottom of JST port.
(c): Thickness from top of PCB to bottom of JST port you mesured.

I think you mesured part (c). Can you measure part (b)?
I don't have LFK PCB and ALPS switches, so I cannot measure them. However, if the length of part (b) is less than 11.2mm, it should fit in the case.

In my stock Filco and Phantom with Cherry MX switches, part (b) is longer than part (a) as shown in the previous post.

part (b) of stock Filco: about 12.2mm
part (b) of Phantom style: about 12.6mm
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 January 2020, 19:41:34 by kkatano »

Offline mode

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 25 January 2020, 12:36:21 »
mode, thanks for measuring. I made a diagram to organize the discussion.

(Attachment Link)

(a): Case inside height I mesured.
(b): Thickness from top of plate to bottom of JST port.
(c): Thickness from top of PCB to bottom of JST port you mesured.

I think you mesured part (c). Can you measure part (b)?
I don't have LFK PCB and ALPS switches, so I cannot measure them. However, if the length of part (b) is less than 11.2mm, it should fit in the case.

In my stock Filco and Phantom with Cherry MX switches, part (b) is longer than part (a) as shown in the previous post.

part (b) of stock Filco: about 12.2mm
part (b) of Phantom style: about 12.6mm

Itís no more than 11mm, I canít find my calipers, if I find them tomorrow Iíll give some exact measurements.

Offline mode

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 25 January 2020, 13:22:55 »
I do actually have a fullsize filco, assuming the pcb is the same thickness I'll give that a measure too and see if it's thicker than the LFK PCB.

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 25 January 2020, 14:24:21 »
I'm the one who is making the FR4 plates, and I'm psyched that others are also seeing how badly the filco/phantom style space needs an update!

I'm in the process of designing a new case as well, so I'll be sure to hit you up when that's closer to reality to make sure there's room for your PCB as well  :-*

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 25 January 2020, 20:28:19 »
I do actually have a fullsize filco, assuming the pcb is the same thickness I'll give that a measure too and see if it's thicker than the LFK PCB.

According to the data sheet, the ALPS switch requires less space than Cherry MX.
I guess your PCB(+ plate) with ALPS more good fits in the case than stock Filco with Cherry MX due to these switch dimension differences.

Cherry MX: https://www.cherrymx.de/en/dev.html
ALPS(matias): http://matias.ca/switches/quiet/blueprints/?p=1

234277-0
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 January 2020, 20:43:31 by kkatano »

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 25 January 2020, 20:50:19 »
I'm the one who is making the FR4 plates, and I'm psyched that others are also seeing how badly the filco/phantom style space needs an update!

I'm in the process of designing a new case as well, so I'll be sure to hit you up when that's closer to reality to make sure there's room for your PCB as well  :-*

Great news. Many Filco fans are waiting for new options for customization :thumb:
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 January 2020, 20:56:01 by kkatano »

Offline gipetto

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 26 January 2020, 04:45:50 »
I'd just desolder the jst connector and wire in the usb cable to the holes. cool project though.

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 26 January 2020, 06:23:37 »
I'd just desolder the jst connector and wire in the usb cable to the holes. cool project though.

Oh, it's good idea. Quick and reasonable solution. I will also try this option later.

Offline mode

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 26 January 2020, 06:56:22 »
I held my lfk pcb up to my filco and the pcb itself is indeed a bit thinner on the lfk.

Offline gipetto

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 26 January 2020, 07:41:22 »
Oh, it's good idea. Quick and reasonable solution. I will also try this option later.
[/quote]

cool. it won't be as easy for the phantom pcb. i've tried and failed in the past to solder cable to arduino headers after they broke off. an approach for that could be to get the open source arduino files and have jlcpcb assemble some with a breakout header. it would be inexpensive due to the small size.

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 27 January 2020, 07:46:27 »
Guys, small update is here. Prototype of acrylic plate has come ;D

I tested this plate on a Phamtom style PCB. It fit brilliantly.
I will continue to check the durability of the plate. After confirming that there are no problems, I will release this plate as open source.

234421-0

234423-1

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 27 January 2020, 09:01:57 »
Guys, small update is here. Prototype of acrylic plate has come ;D

I tested this plate on a Phamtom style PCB. It fit brilliantly.
I will continue to check the durability of the plate. After confirming that there are no problems, I will release this plate as open source.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Rad, how thick is that plate?

Offline kernelsanders

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 27 January 2020, 10:17:31 »
I recently designed a Phantom style PCB, but found that it did not fit perfectly with the YMDK aluminum case. The genuine Filco PCB seems to have the same problem.
So I started designing a new PCB named Wallaby that fits perfectly into the YMDK case.

Does anyone have the same problem as me? I searched online and nobody seems to mention this issue.

Anyway, I will work on the project for my enjoyment.

I have exactly the same problem. Itís a manufacturing defect. Thereís supposed to be a hollowed our area mulled out behind the JST connector to allow for this. I own two of these cases and the second one (gray) didnít have this recess. Iíve contacted the manufacturer on the AliExpress chat to try to arrange a replacement. They said they should be able to arrange to send me out a new bottom plate. Please contact them and also mention that Iím also having the problem to build a case that youíre not the only one affected. Iíve attached an image showing the problem with the two cases.

For me the problem manifests by pushing me keys out of my plate. Then my backspace key gets stuck when pressing it because it travels past the level of the plate. Also some of the keys around the JST connector are not snapping into the plate correctly.

Thanks for posting. Iíll be linking to this forum thread also to build evidence of the problem and the seriousness of it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 27 January 2020, 11:58:55 »
Guys, small update is here. Prototype of acrylic plate has come ;D

I tested this plate on a Phamtom style PCB. It fit brilliantly.
I will continue to check the durability of the plate. After confirming that there are no problems, I will release this plate as open source.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Rad, how thick is that plate?

4.5mm. I will try the next prototype with 3mm.

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 27 January 2020, 12:11:38 »
I have exactly the same problem. Itís a manufacturing defect. Thereís supposed to be a hollowed our area mulled out behind the JST connector to allow for this. I own two of these cases and the second one (gray) didnít have this recess. Iíve contacted the manufacturer on the AliExpress chat to try to arrange a replacement. They said they should be able to arrange to send me out a new bottom plate. Please contact them and also mention that Iím also having the problem to build a case that youíre not the only one affected. Iíve attached an image showing the problem with the two cases.

For me the problem manifests by pushing me keys out of my plate. Then my backspace key gets stuck when pressing it because it travels past the level of the plate. Also some of the keys around the JST connector are not snapping into the plate correctly.

Thanks for posting. Iíll be linking to this forum thread also to build evidence of the problem and the seriousness of it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you kernelsanders. I feel like all mysteries have been solved :cool:

All my cases are "Second model". It would be great if YMDK would replace the bottom plate. I'll also contact them, and continue this project just for fun :thumb:
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 January 2020, 12:34:34 by kkatano »

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 27 January 2020, 13:52:58 »
Guys, small update is here. Prototype of acrylic plate has come ;D

I tested this plate on a Phamtom style PCB. It fit brilliantly.
I will continue to check the durability of the plate. After confirming that there are no problems, I will release this plate as open source.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Rad, how thick is that plate?

4.5mm. I will try the next prototype with 3mm.

Have you tried that in a stock filco case? Could be meant for the YMDK, but wanted to check.

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 27 January 2020, 18:48:11 »
Guys, small update is here. Prototype of acrylic plate has come ;D

I tested this plate on a Phamtom style PCB. It fit brilliantly.
I will continue to check the durability of the plate. After confirming that there are no problems, I will release this plate as open source.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Rad, how thick is that plate?

4.5mm. I will try the next prototype with 3mm.

Have you tried that in a stock filco case? Could be meant for the YMDK, but wanted to check.

This prototype is for only YMDK. Not fit in Stock filco case. However, it maybe fit if making the width of the plate a little shorter so that it does not catch on the side edge of the Filco case.

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 08 March 2020, 04:38:10 »
I received the PCB last week and the keyboard was assembled today.
It fits perfectly into the YMDK case, as expected.

The remaining tasks are updating and publishing the firmware. When that's done, the first release of the project is complete.

Offline kernelsanders

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 08 March 2020, 20:47:42 »
Amazing work! Do you have any plans to do a GB and to sell to other? BTW, Iím still waiting for YMDK to ship a new bottom plate with the cutout. The whole Corona virus thing has slowed them down. But they have said it is with the factory now.

Offline kkatano

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 09 March 2020, 09:33:28 »
Amazing work! Do you have any plans to do a GB and to sell to other? BTW, I’m still waiting for YMDK to ship a new bottom plate with the cutout. The whole Corona virus thing has slowed them down. But they have said it is with the factory now.

I have no plans to do GB at this time. But anyone can manufacture and sell this PCB or can plan GB. I do not limit them, because this project is open source. If anyone tries to run GB, I will cooperate as much as possible. In any case, I will upload the Gerber files on Github later.
« Last Edit: Mon, 09 March 2020, 09:35:54 by kkatano »

Offline Applet

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Re: [WIP] Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 12 March 2020, 08:50:38 »
Looks great! Thanks for sharing and keeping it open source  ;D

Offline Muchacho

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Re: Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 30 June 2020, 14:33:55 »
Amazing work!

Glad to see some Filco/TKL fan.

For some reason there are less and less GB with sober TKL (and Filco compatibility). Maybe people are more into 60%/RGB now.

I'm in the process of designing a new case as well, so I'll be sure to hit you up when that's closer to reality to make sure there's room for your PCB as well  :-*

Oh yes please! Do you have any update on this ?

Offline kernelsanders

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Re: Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 02:39:24 »
I thought I'd give an update with my issues with YDMK case and the Filco PCB. I reported earlier that I was talking to YMDK about the problem, and had convinced them send me a new bottom plate.

Well, I received mine yesterday, and it works great.

Here are some photos showing the original supplied bottom case part (without the material removed to allow for the PCB and the connector. You can also see that the screws for the feet have been properly sunk as well.

It took a long time (and COVID happened over there at the same time!), but I'd encourage other people to contact YDMK through their chat to get a replacement bottom part if they are experiencing this issue.

I did tell them that we were discussing it on geekhack.


Offline phinix

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Re: Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 08 July 2020, 03:33:50 »
I would love to have Filco alu case and pcb with USB-c...
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Offline kkatano

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Re: Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 07:27:23 »
I thought I'd give an update with my issues with YDMK case and the Filco PCB. I reported earlier that I was talking to YMDK about the problem, and had convinced them send me a new bottom plate.

Well, I received mine yesterday, and it works great.

Here are some photos showing the original supplied bottom case part (without the material removed to allow for the PCB and the connector. You can also see that the screws for the feet have been properly sunk as well.

It took a long time (and COVID happened over there at the same time!), but I'd encourage other people to contact YDMK through their chat to get a replacement bottom part if they are experiencing this issue.

I did tell them that we were discussing it on geekhack.

Thank you for your report. That's great news. I also tried to contact YMDK but did not because Wallby resolved the issue. ;D

Offline kkatano

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Re: Tenkeyless PCB for Filco and YMDK case
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 10 July 2020, 07:47:32 »
I would love to have Filco alu case and pcb with USB-c...


It would be cool if Type C Filco was realized. I think that it can be realized by customizing something like ai03's daughter board for a YMDK case. The dimensions need to be modified.
https://github.com/ai03-2725/Unified-Daughterboard

Currently I'm working on another keyboard design but I want to update the wallaby when I have time. I want to add another layout like tsangan.
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 July 2020, 07:49:56 by kkatano »