Author Topic: Yet another ergonomic keyboard  (Read 5722 times)

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Offline Dox

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  • Posts: 312
Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« on: Tue, 03 March 2020, 09:10:59 »
I remember when I created the ErgoDox, custom ergonomic keyboards were few and far between.
Nowadays, it seems like every configuration have been tried. I wanted something easier to transport than my ErgoDox while maintaining a few key aspect.

I built something along the lines of the Atreus62 but modified it with 64 key layout and non-staggered columns.
I realized that the staggered columns didn't make a big difference for me but the fact that the halves were not tented was a big downside.
236809-0

So I decided to designed something from scratch.

Prerequisite:
   1 piece
   USB C
   ortholinear
   7 degree slope
   12 degree split
   5 degree tent
   Dedicated F1-F12 keys
   QMK Compatible
   Compatible with most keycap set

Here is what I came up with;
236811-1236813-2236815-3236817-4236819-5236821-6

I still need to complete the PCB design but I'm almost there. It's good to be back to building keyboards  :)

Let me know what you think!
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline fpazos

  • Posts: 101
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 03 March 2020, 09:44:03 »
It looks really nice and convenient. I like it despite prefering fully splited keebs

Edit: It's amazing. Everytime I see something new I like it more
« Last Edit: Wed, 22 April 2020, 12:41:13 by fpazos »
 

Offline Blitzschnitzel

  • Posts: 86
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 03 March 2020, 18:06:58 »
Very cool! Only the asymmetry off the case would bug me. Are those three separate PCBs with jumper wires in between?

Offline kurplop

  • THE HERO WE DON'T DESERVE
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Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 03 March 2020, 19:01:11 »
Good to see you back. I was wondering if you’d ever resurface. You’re the sperm whale of the keyboard community. Your design looks sound. Just a little tenting helps a lot and the 12 degree skew is a good compromise with a one piece board.👍👍

Afterthought: I do question your getting away from the staggered columns. I find it to be a pretty important feature. Did you not like them, or do you prefer the space saving or simplicity of the straight design?
« Last Edit: Wed, 04 March 2020, 06:58:19 by kurplop »

Offline equalunique

  • Posts: 532
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 04 March 2020, 06:42:25 »
IT'S PERFECT. PLEASE DON'T CHANGE A THING.

Offline Findecanor

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  • Location: Koriko
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 04 March 2020, 06:50:33 »
Very stylish. I like visual design.
The only thing that worries me is that the cutout for the USB Type C port might not be big enough for all cables.
Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
-- Arthur Miller

Offline Nuji

  • Posts: 18
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 04 March 2020, 08:30:22 »
that board is goddamn hot

Offline Dox

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  • Posts: 312
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 04 March 2020, 13:21:18 »
It looks really nice and convenient. I like it despite prefering fully splited keebs

Enviado desde mi Redmi Note 7 mediante Tapatalk

After years of using my ErgoDox I realized that I always place the halves in the same position and I wanted something I could put over a laptop while traveling and the split keyboard makes it difficult.

Very cool! Only the asymmetry off the case would bug me. Are those three separate PCBs with jumper wires in between?

Yes, 3 PCBs, I'm not sure yet how I will connect them together, probably just jumper wires in between as they will be in a permanent position once assembled. The USB-C is on a daughterboard as per Ai03’s universal daughterboard specification.

Good to see you back. I was wondering if you’d ever resurface. You’re the sperm whale of the keyboard community. Your design looks sound. Just a little tenting helps a lot and the 12 degree skew is a good compromise with a one piece board.👍👍

Afterthought: I do question your getting away from the staggered columns. I find it to be a pretty important feature. Did you not like them, or do you prefer the space saving or simplicity of the straight design?

Thanks! 12 degree is how I always place my ErgoDox so I went with that.
The column stagger on the ErgoDox is quite minimal. I like it but I didn't find it hard at all to adapt to full grid layout on my "Atreus clone" and it simplifies the compatibility of keycaps for the bottom row.

Very stylish. I like visual design.
The only thing that worries me is that the cutout for the USB Type C port might not be big enough for all cables.

I measured the USB C cables I have handy and they would all fit. The opening is 7.6 x 13.3 mm. I think most cables should fit.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline Dox

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  • Posts: 312
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 20 March 2020, 09:02:52 »
All the parts have been ordered, let's see how long it will take with the current situation..
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline Dox

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  • Posts: 312
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 24 March 2020, 14:51:28 »
I got a few parts including the PCBs, but the case will not be here before April-May.
238363-0
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline psxndc

  • Posts: 377
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 25 March 2020, 18:46:56 »
Scrolling through the pix I had a Mike Myers moment. Non staggered Atreus?  ... yes ... Tented... Yes... Non uniform bottom row? No! That right side? No!

But seriously, looks dope. I think I'm just a fan of the Atreus, but it needs some tweaks.

Offline suicidal_orange

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  • Location: England
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 26 March 2020, 06:20:23 »
This looks great, it's a lot like an idea that's been rattling around my brain for years - split and tenting are nice but there's no reason not to go big vertically rather than remembering layers for rarely used keys.  The reason it never left my head is that I'm too attached to ISO and the silly shaped enter key ruins everything :( (not because I have no CAD skills :)))

Impressive delivery speed on the PCBs too.
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod
MX Brown 30g, HHKBish
Vortex OEM PBT
for See how the other half lives challenge!

Offline Zustiur

  • Posts: 236
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 29 March 2020, 20:03:05 »
Wow. Non staggered columns? Clearly your personal ergonomic requirements are different to mine.
Otherwise, it looks like a very sensible design to me. I too got sick of having split halves. There's a big advantage to having a big keyboard that stays where you put it, especially if you move work locations on a regular basis.

P.s. I have to ask, are you the same Dox of Tribes modding/mapping fame?

Offline Dox

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  • Posts: 312
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 10:27:00 »
Wow. Non staggered columns? Clearly your personal ergonomic requirements are different to mine.
Otherwise, it looks like a very sensible design to me. I too got sick of having split halves. There's a big advantage to having a big keyboard that stays where you put it, especially if you move work locations on a regular basis.

P.s. I have to ask, are you the same Dox of Tribes modding/mapping fame?

The column staggering on the ErgoDox is quite minimal and during my testing with my full ortholinear "Atreus" I wasn't missing it too much. It also made the design much simpler especially for the bottom row.

As you said, my personal ergonomic requirements are different as are the requirements of every different person. That's why the thumb section of the ErgoDox has been criticized by so many users, but it was perfect for me and that's why it was done that way. I can reach to any of the thumb keys easily.

It's been 8 years since I've used anything else than the ErgoDox as my daily driver. Any change is going to require some adjustment, but I think the design I came up with is a good middle ground for the requirement I set to achieve with this keyboard.

P.s. I don't know Tribes. It must be another Dox.

ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline Rayndalf

  • Posts: 369
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 31 March 2020, 17:51:35 »
Nice. This reminds me of an ortho Marquardt Mini Ergo (I recently tried to make one similar to it but ended up going with scooped keywells instead).

Offline Dox

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Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 08 April 2020, 13:06:41 »
Got something in the mail this morning!
239609-0

All the heat-set inserts are in and everything looks fine.
Only the switches are missing.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline Dox

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  • Posts: 312
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 22 April 2020, 11:37:37 »
I'm still waiting on the switches but in the meantime I started to work on the next prototype with staggered columns and 5x7 layout. I really like the inner column on the ErgoDox for and I think I will miss them with the current version.
It also have stand alone plate instead of the integrated plate design and a bottom brass weight to give it some heft.
240539-0
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline Dafraz117

  • Posts: 64
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 07 May 2020, 21:09:47 »
this is awesome


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Offline blighty

  • Posts: 390
  • Location: New York, USA
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 07 May 2020, 22:35:36 »
Got something in the mail this morning!
(Attachment Link)

All the heat-set inserts are in and everything looks fine.
Only the switches are missing.

This is an awesome project.  How are you liking it?
LZ ergo (MX silent red) | JER - A06 (MX silent black-red springs) | Duck Lightsaver V2 (MX red) | Duck Octagon V2 (gateron clear) (lifted pads) | Duck Orion V2 (gateron red) | TKC 1800 (gateron silent reds) | Mistel MD770 (MX red with GMK silencing clips) | Realforce R2TSLA-US4-IV | Realforce R2TLSA-US4-BK | TX 75 (gateron clear) | KBDFANS 75 ("vintage" MX blues) | Kinesis Freestyle Pro (MX red) | MS Surface Ergonomic | MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 | Filco Majestouch 2 TKL (MX black) | Phantom (Filco case) ("vintage" MX blacks | Spr1t 75% PCB x 2 (MX black and gateron clear) | Cherry G80-1865 (MX browns with black springs)

Offline Dox

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 312
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 07:08:35 »
Got something in the mail this morning!
(Attachment Link)

All the heat-set inserts are in and everything looks fine.
Only the switches are missing.

This is an awesome project.  How are you liking it?

I'm still waiting on the switches :( They are shipped and should be here next week.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline blighty

  • Posts: 390
  • Location: New York, USA
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 08 May 2020, 20:15:25 »
 
Got something in the mail this morning!
(Attachment Link)

All the heat-set inserts are in and everything looks fine.
Only the switches are missing.

This is an awesome project.  How are you liking it?

I'm still waiting on the switches :( They are shipped and should be here next week.

I would have probably desoldered something else to use its switches (and probably ruining whatever donor board in the process).  What switches are you putting in? 

Oh, is this going to be another open source project, or just a one off?
LZ ergo (MX silent red) | JER - A06 (MX silent black-red springs) | Duck Lightsaver V2 (MX red) | Duck Octagon V2 (gateron clear) (lifted pads) | Duck Orion V2 (gateron red) | TKC 1800 (gateron silent reds) | Mistel MD770 (MX red with GMK silencing clips) | Realforce R2TSLA-US4-IV | Realforce R2TLSA-US4-BK | TX 75 (gateron clear) | KBDFANS 75 ("vintage" MX blues) | Kinesis Freestyle Pro (MX red) | MS Surface Ergonomic | MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 | Filco Majestouch 2 TKL (MX black) | Phantom (Filco case) ("vintage" MX blacks | Spr1t 75% PCB x 2 (MX black and gateron clear) | Cherry G80-1865 (MX browns with black springs)

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 808
  • Location: Asia
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 09 May 2020, 00:43:40 »
I joined the Atreus Kickstarter campaign with a couple hours to spare (started paying attention to keyboards again).

I much prefer this asymmetric design with actual number and cursor keys.

Offline hoggy

  • * Ergonomics Moderator
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  • Location: Isle of Man
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 09 May 2020, 01:42:17 »
I love it.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline Dox

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  • Posts: 312
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 12 May 2020, 17:49:15 »

I would have probably desoldered something else to use its switches (and probably ruining whatever donor board in the process).  What switches are you putting in? 

Oh, is this going to be another open source project, or just a one off?


I would have done that but I wanted to try some new switches on this. I put some aqua zilent switches in it.
I will probably release the files later when I fix the small issues I found while assembling it.
242293-0242295-1
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline blighty

  • Posts: 390
  • Location: New York, USA
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 12 May 2020, 22:45:55 »

I would have probably desoldered something else to use its switches (and probably ruining whatever donor board in the process).  What switches are you putting in? 

Oh, is this going to be another open source project, or just a one off?


I would have done that but I wanted to try some new switches on this. I put some aqua zilent switches in it.
I will probably release the files later when I fix the small issues I found while assembling it.
(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

Hell yeah!  How do the zilent switches feel?  Lately, any MX switch besides genuine cherry mx feel like trash to me.  I'll definitely keep an eye out for when you have to files ready for public consumption.  It looks like the bottom row has  2u and 2.25u stabilized keys?
LZ ergo (MX silent red) | JER - A06 (MX silent black-red springs) | Duck Lightsaver V2 (MX red) | Duck Octagon V2 (gateron clear) (lifted pads) | Duck Orion V2 (gateron red) | TKC 1800 (gateron silent reds) | Mistel MD770 (MX red with GMK silencing clips) | Realforce R2TSLA-US4-IV | Realforce R2TLSA-US4-BK | TX 75 (gateron clear) | KBDFANS 75 ("vintage" MX blues) | Kinesis Freestyle Pro (MX red) | MS Surface Ergonomic | MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 | Filco Majestouch 2 TKL (MX black) | Phantom (Filco case) ("vintage" MX blacks | Spr1t 75% PCB x 2 (MX black and gateron clear) | Cherry G80-1865 (MX browns with black springs)

Offline Dox

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  • Posts: 312
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 13 May 2020, 08:15:16 »
Here are my initial observations:
-Not having the arrow keys in "vim" position at the bottom row is hard. I got into the habbit of just curling my fingers to press the arrow keys and moving to the edge of the board is not ideal.
-Extra inside column, I miss having some keys closer to the home position. For example, on the ErgoDox I placed the equal key next to the 5 and I'm finding that it was really convenient.
-The current center column is too far from the home position for my liking.
-Dedicated F keys are a nice addition but they are easy to live without. On this layout, they balanced the height of the board nicely compared to the width.
-I miss the column stagger mainly to home my hand position on the board. It doesn't really affect my typing.
-7 degree slope is a bit on the steep side for me. I think 6 degree would be ideal.
-5 degree of tent is what I had on my ErgoDox for the last 8 years so this feels good but I think 6 degree might be better in this configuration.
-12/24 degree of split feels good as expected as I measured this from my usual position on the ErgoDox.
-USB C is a nice addition.
-Zilent switches are nice, they are more tactile than I anticipated and having spent the last 8 yeas on light linears (vintage blacks with blue springs) I'm not convinced yet. I also have a set of Rosélios (silent linears) that I will use for my next build. Those feels really good to me. Overall, I really like having a more quiet keyboard.
-The fact that both halves are connected is a good thing for me as I almost never moved the halves of the ErgoDox individually. It's nice to have a permanent position and a more solid arrangement.

I will give it some time and report back on how things evolved.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2

Offline Findecanor

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  • Location: Koriko
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 13 May 2020, 12:01:54 »
-12/24 degree of split feels good as expected as I measured this from my usual position on the ErgoDox.
BTW. Did you rotate the split from the same origin?

Man must shape his tools lest they shape him
-- Arthur Miller

Offline Dox

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  • Posts: 312
Re: Yet another ergonomic keyboard
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 13 May 2020, 12:07:17 »
-12/24 degree of split feels good as expected as I measured this from my usual position on the ErgoDox.
BTW. Did you rotate the split from the same origin?


I am not sure what you mean by "the same origin" but the ideal split would vary depending on the distance from the keyboard to my body and the distance between the halves. I measured it at my usual position of the ErgoDox and replicated it on this keyboard.
ErgoDox x2 | DoxKB x2 |   IBM SSK   | HHKB pro2