IBM L40 Mania

[EverythingIBM]

Alright, a seller is getting rid of a whole wad of IBM L40 trackmice things. So, here's all the auctions listed:
number 1
number 2
number 3

The seller really wants to get rid of them 'cause I got a "second chance" offer for $5 after losing the bidding on one.

It's a great time to pick one of those up new. I DID in fact order one (even though I was criticizing its ergonomy, look, and cord), however, I think it may end up being a decent mechanical mouse due to the trackball being used as a mouse ball in "mouse mode".

Plus, I'm curious... look at it! Have you ever seen anything so strange looking? I HAVE been wanting a vintage IBM mouse for awhile now though, I adore the carved logo, won't wear off like the pathetic silver spray they use nowdays.

[kishy]

The seller may want to get rid of them, but the seller also refuses to charge actual shipping cost (or did last time I was interested in one. Priority on an item like this is outrageous and flat out silly when First Class will likely deliver in the same time with equal reliability and less than 1/3 the cost)

[EverythingIBM]

The seller may want to get rid of them, but the seller also refuses to charge actual shipping cost (or did last time I was interested in one. Priority on an item like this is outrageous and flat out silly when First Class will likely deliver in the same time with equal reliability and less than 1/3 the cost)

$15 is the norm to Canada. Most all people who sold me something from the states charged that much.

[kishy]

I was quoted $18 I believe?

In any event it shouldn't cost more than 5-6 (check the USPS website).

[EverythingIBM]

I was quoted $18 I believe?

In any event it shouldn't cost more than 5-6 (check the USPS website).

Multiple sellers quoted $15 on for me on ebay, even brandon from clickykeyboards charged that much. So... everything's fine. It's just the standard USPS price.
Shipping to your part of Canada is probably more due to the extra taxes slapped on everything.

I'm not going to fight... the mouse is cheap enough and it's brand new. Those things back in the day would have been pricey anyhow.

[microsoft windows]

I was quoted $18 I believe?

In any event it shouldn't cost more than 5-6 (check the USPS website).

I don't think he meant it bad. Why would somebody want to gyp you out of $3?

I bought a mouse from him and it arrived fast, and I had no problems.

[ch_123]

I was quoted $18 I believe?

In any event it shouldn't cost more than 5-6 (check the USPS website).

If memory serves me correct, it cost me $15 to have it shipped to Ireland... I somehow doubt that getting it shipped across the border involves the same sort of effort.

[EverythingIBM]

If memory serves me correct, it cost me $15 to have it shipped to Ireland... I somehow doubt that getting it shipped across the border involves the same sort of effort.

You'd be surprised.

[EverythingIBM]

I don't think he meant it bad. Why would somebody want to gyp you out of $3?

I bought a mouse from him and it arrived fast, and I had no problems.

No he's not trying to cheat anyone. A perfectly fine seller (gave me positive feedback before I even gave him anything).

[kishy]

Again, $5-6 for First Class, which is the only thing anyone should be using for an item of this size and weight. That's more than a $3 difference.

[EverythingIBM]

Again, $5-6 for First Class, which is the only thing anyone should be using for an item of this size and weight. That's more than a $3 difference.

Well you can always ship it to MW's house, then have him ship it to you for a cheaper price.

[TexasFlood]

Alright, a seller is getting rid of a whole wad of IBM L40 trackmice things. So, here's all the auctions listed:

The seller really wants to get rid of them 'cause I got a "second chance" offer for $5 after losing the bidding on one.

It's a great time to pick one of those up new. I DID in fact order one (even though I was criticizing its ergonomy, look, and cord), however, I think it may end up being a decent mechanical mouse due to the trackball being used as a mouse ball in "mouse mode".

Plus, I'm curious... look at it! Have you ever seen anything so strange looking? I HAVE been wanting a vintage IBM mouse for awhile now though, I adore the carved logo, won't wear off like the pathetic silver spray they use nowdays.

It was just so weird I had to bite, just got it and am trying it out as a trackball.  I thought something odd was going on but think I just didn't understand what some of the buttons were for.  I'm liking it now.  Have to use it for a while to see if it grows on my or gets annoying.

[EverythingIBM]

It was just so weird I had to bite, just got it and am trying it out as a trackball.  I thought something odd was going on but think I just didn't understand what some of the buttons were for.  I'm liking it now.  Have to use it for a while to see if it grows on my or gets annoying.

Mine never came yet, but I suspect it to arrive next week. I hope so because MW got me so anxious. The [strike]bastard[/strike] moderate hearted fellow is good at tempting you with vintage wares.

Yeah, it is weird... I'm curious myself, but I think the big trackball will act as a superior mouse ball -- since I intend to use it as a mouse, if space isn't a concern.

Probably won't see these turn up too often after this guy sells all them, so, get them while they're hot!

[n3rrd]

I got mine last week and used it briefly.  I've been meaning to test it out some more but haven't had a chance.  On first use, I found that one of the axis had trouble tracking.  I suspect that this is due to a couple of things:

• The ball is smooth and shiny
• The ball is relatively light
• I'm assuming the shafts inside the mouse are smooth as well

I'd guess that, as it accumulates dirt and oil, tracking would improve to some extent.  May also work to open it up and toss some heat shrink tubing over the shafts.

[TexasFlood]

I haven't even tried using mine as a mouse yet, maybe later today.  But I like the trackball aspect so far.  Once I sorted out that the pair of small buttons at the top are "sticky" by design and it wasn't a malfunction, :wink:.

[ch_123]

I got mine last week and used it briefly.  I've been meaning to test it out some more but haven't had a chance.  On first use, I found that one of the axis had trouble tracking.  I suspect that this is due to a couple of things:

• The ball is smooth and shiny
• The ball is relatively light
• I'm assuming the shafts inside the mouse are smooth as well

I'd guess that, as it accumulates dirt and oil, tracking would improve to some extent.  May also work to open it up and toss some heat shrink tubing over the shafts.

I noticed this too.

Another problem is that these things were designed for low res monitors. They appear really sluggish on a high res screen.

[microsoft windows]

I cranked up the sensitivity on mine and it works great on my laptop's screen (It's very high resolution on the 15" screen where it's hard to read).

I haven't had any tracking trouble though.

[TexasFlood]

Just tried it out as a mouse.  Given the hard shiny surface of the ball it definitely needs a mousepad it can get some traction on.  Also needs acceleration.  I like the trackball aspect much better as of now.  I didn't realize that this was apparently the first device to be called a trackpoint, at least according to this blurb on thinkwiki.org.  I might have gotten it just for historical value had I known that, :wink:, being released in 1991 for the IBM PS/2 L40 SX, preceding release of a trackpointer as we know them today on the first thinkpad in late 1992.

[microsoft windows]

Your mouse is performing very differently from mine. Mine tracks on almost any surface, from my dog to concrete floor.

[TexasFlood]

Your mouse is performing very differently from mine. Mine tracks on almost any surface, from my dog to concrete floor.

Well, to be honest, I must confess that I assumed it needed a good mousepad and didn't even try it on other surfaces.  Guess my bad, you know what they say about that work assume, makes an ASS out of U and ME!  :wink:.  I'll try it on some other surfaces and see what happens.
*Update - OK tried it on some slick finished wood as a mouse and it worked fine.  Apparently the weight of the ball is enough to overcome the slick finish of the ball.  This is both a cool device historically and functionally.  I'm glad I got it.  Thanks much EverythingIBM for posting about it.  I didn't know these existing much less that they could be picked up at a reasonable cost.  It was like $11 shipped.  Not bad, sold for $159 in 1991, :wink:.

Also interesting from a historical perspective, although not directly related to this device, when googling "trackpoint" I came across this youtube video featuring Joe Rutledge & Ted Selker describing the development of their pointing stick and it is a bit of a sale pitch for it back before it was embraced in any IBM products, much less the rest of the industry.

"1990 research film from IBM describing the then-novel "pointing stick" input device. A refined version, marketed as the TrackPoint, would later become standard faire on ThinkPad notebook computers. Somewhat dry, but does provide some interesting background into a technology we now take for granted."

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[n3rrd]

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[TexasFlood]

I find the still shot for that video very funny.  There is all this talk about mechanical keyboards being better for you due to the feed back, but the position he's in can't be ergonomic, lol.

Yes, not very sophisticated filming technique, leaning way over so the camera can see, :wink:.  Hey they're engineers, not photographers!  Sounds like they were working on a limited budget trying to evangelize folks to this device and had to fight the good fight to get it into production use.

[n3rrd]

Your mouse is performing very differently from mine. Mine tracks on almost any surface, from my dog to concrete floor.

In regards to the differences in tracking, without much investigation, I'd chalk it up to variances in production.  A surface came out smoother or rougher than intended, or a molding is ever so slightly off.  I don't have time to look at mine in detail quite yet though.

[hyperlinked]

I find the still shot for that video very funny.  There is all this talk about mechanical keyboards being better for you due to the feed back, but the position he's in can't be ergonomic, lol.

I think he may have had to assume an exaggerated posture for the camera. It looked like he was trying to keep his head and upper body out of the way of the camera's view of the monitor and still type and be within reach of the track point.

[EverythingIBM]

Alright, mine arrived today! Am using it right now.

I'll give a brief description of the mouse. First off, the two buttons are actually rubber -- this prevents it from slipping when in trackball mode, it also strangely makes the buttons feel really comfortable. The switches used are very crisp and clicky (makes a hollow noise). The mouse itself feels lighter than most when pushed around, it also is tilted up unlike most which kind of tilt down. This is great for me since my fingers are long and the bottom of my palm is usually on the desk.

There's a few things to understand before using it to perfection:

A) roll it around for a bit after opening. I found when I first opened mine, the rollers needed time to adjust since they haven't moved being first packed in 1991 lol. But after using it, I can roll it around crazy and they don't "catch" causing the cursor to move only vertically or horizontally.
Note: if this doesn't help, try converting it from trackball to mouse a few times. There's actually a mechanism which tells the mouse what mode to operate in, if in mouse mode, the trackball buttons are disabled, and the direction of the rollers are changed. If in trackball mode, the mouse-mode buttons are disabled, and the direction of the rollers are changed. If this didn't happen, every time you used the mouse as a trackball, it would be inversed.
B) crank the cursor speed to max; I'll explain why this won't cause the cursor to become inaccurate.
C) make sure you use it on a flat surface, I have mine on a mousepad since I can't use mice if they're not (doesn't matter what type). It has to do partly with how I hold them. I think you could use it on other surfaces, but to get used to it and allow the ancient rollers to get more loose, give it a good environment to start.
Note: the mouse actually is a little "tilty", you can rock it side-to-side in mouse mode, which is one reason why you want a flat surface.

Alright, when you put the cursor speed to max, the trackball is so accurate that it doesn't matter how fast it goes. By "accurate", I mean it's so easy to move the cursor pixel-by-pixel. It doesn't abruptly "jump" like most optical mice today. I've never encountered a mouse with such pixel accuracy before. Yes it's an old technology, but this mouse pulls it off well. Most optical mice made today are crap anyways. You'd want a laser one (I laugh when people confuse their red-lit optical with a laser -- kind of like how most individuals think "dual-core" is "dual-CPU", try again).

The L40 is a lot lighter than most mice, and it's longer too. Since I have long fingers, it fits my hand perfectly.

I kind of wish I ordered more of them had I known it was this good. It's temperamental to begin with, but use it for awhile and it gets better. I'm not sure what the longevity of this thing would be -- I would assume the rubber buttons would eventually get worn down a bit, and the rollers, whatever type they are, may wear down.

PS: I should add that I'm mostly using it at a mouse, the trackball is fine, but not my kind of thing. As a trackball it stays down very well for its weight.

[TexasFlood]

Nice little initial review.

First off, the two buttons are actually rubber -- this prevents it from slipping when in trackball mode, it also strangely makes the buttons feel really comfortable. The switches used are very crisp and clicky (makes a hollow noise).

YES! Clicky mouse!!!

A) roll it around for a bit after opening. I found when I first opened mine, the rollers needed time to adjust since they haven't moved being first packed in 1991 lol. But after using it, I can roll it around crazy and they don't "catch" causing the cursor to move only vertically or horizontally.

I found this to be true as well, had me a bit worried at first but OK now.

I kind of wish I ordered more of them had I known it was this good.

Me to, at least one more, just because it seems so unlikely to find more for sale.  I hadn't expected to like it as much as I do.

PS: I should add that I'm mostly using it at a mouse, the trackball is fine, but not my kind of thing. As a trackball it stays down very well for its weight.

I may get used to the mouse but as of now I'm really fond of the trackball function.  Works well in a minimal space.

[n3rrd]

I kind of wish I ordered more of them had I known it was this good. It's temperamental to begin with, but use it for awhile and it gets better. I'm not sure what the longevity of this thing would be -- I would assume the rubber buttons would eventually get worn down a bit, and the rollers, whatever type they are, may wear down.

I've just finished taking it apart and reassembling it.  It's built simply, but quite well.  The roller mechanism resembles that of the DT225, but scaled down (obviously).  Two small bearings per tracking roller, and one small bearing on the diagonal roller.

I also wanted to demonstrate how this mouse switches between trackball and standard mouse, as well as the slight tilt the mouse has while in mouse mode.  I uploaded three quick videos to YouTube:

• Tilt
  
• To Trackball
  
• To Mouse
[/URL]

[EverythingIBM]

Nice little initial review.

YES! Clicky mouse!!!

I found this to be true as well, had me a bit worried at first but OK now.

Me to, at least one more, just because it seems so unlikely to find more for sale.  I hadn't expected to like it as much as I do.

I may get used to the mouse but as of now I'm really fond of the trackball function.  Works well in a minimal space.

I got lots of space.
My only concern is that when you have it flipped up like a mouse, the bottom plastic actually bends since there's no joint. So I'm wondering if you keep it sustained like that, if the plastic will permanently get into that shape. I would say no (especially since it locks itself), but I don't think it was meant to stay as a mouse for a long time. Whatever. I like it, so, I'll use it to how it best suits me.

That seller got rid of all them for $5. I doubt we'll be seeing any for awhile now. And the fact that they were NIB is quite amazing. It was really awesome to open it up (like it really was 1991), probably one of the most exciting things that happened this week.

I kept the manual in the shrink wrap though.

[EverythingIBM]

I've just finished taking it apart and reassembling it.  It's built simply, but quite well.  The roller mechanism resembles that of the DT225, but scaled down (obviously).  Two small bearings per tracking roller, and one small bearing on the diagonal roller.

I also wanted to demonstrate how this mouse switches between trackball and standard mouse, as well as the slight tilt the mouse has while in mouse mode.  I uploaded three quick videos to YouTube:

• Tilt
  
• To Trackball
  
• To Mouse
[/URL]

Yeah, I talked about the slight tilt it had in mouse mode -- which is why you should use a flat surface. It's like that because there are no joints in the lower part of the plastic, causing it to bend and not fully become flush with the surface.

[n3rrd]

Yeah, I talked about the slight tilt it had in mouse mode -- which is why you should use a flat surface. It's like that because there are no joints in the lower part of the plastic, causing it to bend and not fully become flush with the surface.

Oh, I know.  It is on a flat surface in the video, and I wanted to demonstrate what you had mentioned.  My original post actually made reference to your post, but apparently I lost something while editing it.  I personally prefer it as a trackball so it doesn't bother me at all.

[EverythingIBM]

Oh, I know.  It is on a flat surface in the video, and I wanted to demonstrate what you had mentioned.  My original post actually made reference to your post, but apparently I lost something while editing it.  I personally prefer it as a trackball so it doesn't bother me at all.

Heh, I'm probably the only one who's going to use it as a mouse.

The tilting doesn't bother me -- I think it makes it easier to maneuver actually. Less of the mouse touching your table meaning less friction.

[TexasFlood]

Heh, I'm probably the only one who's going to use it as a mouse.

The tilting doesn't bother me -- I think it makes it easier to maneuver actually. Less of the mouse touching your table meaning less friction.

Yup, I like the trackball aspect so far but could change my mind in future.  So cool to have that option.

[EverythingIBM]

Yup, I like the trackball aspect so far but could change my mind in future.  So cool to have that option.

I guess that's why they call it options by IBM.

[TexasFlood]

I guess that's why they call it options by IBM.

Excellent point, :smile:, at least in this case, I'm seen a ton of boxes that said that but not so generous on options.  Cool.